Milk Tongue

metabolizm

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
539
ditch the milk, use casseine powder instead with some sucrose

You dont mention stomach issues so i guess you dont have any so its not SIBO.
if you have, probable lactose intolerance, take a lactase supplement with it and see what happens.

or ditch the milk, use casein powder instead with some sucrose.

I do have gut issues. Chronic constipation being one of them. Annoyingly, since dropping the milk I’m already experiencing rebound constipation. Milk was aggravating white tongue and dandruff but seemed to be improving gut motility.
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
239
Location
Austria
ditch the milk, use casseine powder instead with some sucrose

You dont mention stomache issues so i guess you dont have any so its not SIBO.
if you have, probable lactose intolerance, take a lactase supplement with it and see what happens.

or ditch the milk, use casein powder instead with some sucrose.

What stomache issues would one need to have to be sure about having sibo? not every issue shows the same symptoms in every person.

lactose intolerance would lead to bloating or excessive gas right? the issue here is white coating from milk products (and wheat). Candida was mentioned before but why would candida only interact with thoose carbs and not other sugars / starches??

Sibo would explain it in that specific bacteria is feeding on specific food. But perhaps that can be said about fungi aswell, perhaps parasites aswell?

I wholeheartedly agree with TheSir and Twohandsondeck. We can try to bypass issues and upregulate and improve thyroid, but what if that just isn't working? If the very foods are not being absorbed to do just that? Maybe even increasing the very issues one has. It's not just WHAT you eat, but what the body absorbs in the end that matters.

Resistant and even worse RAW starch seems like one of the most dangerous ways to "resolve" this.

The whole forum experiements with stuff most doctors would deem highly health damaging or problematic such as steroids, hormones, enemas, extremely high dosed vitamins, herbs, huge amount of sugars, literally aspirin on a daily basis etc. etc.
How does some sideeffect of starch (which people just have in their diet anyway, even if we would live in the woods living like tribal cavemen) compare to all of this?

Actually i'd consider some potatoe starch as "safer" to experiement with than excessive amounts of milk, sugar, aspirin, methylene blue, progresterone etc.

There is no good or bad in this, we all want to resolve health issues and live the best live we can right? preferably with a full and strong set of hair, perfect eyesight, good libido and high energy levels.

sorry i digressed a little.
 
Last edited:

metabolizm

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
539
So - can't drink milk, can't eat wheat, can barely stomach potatoes. How am I supposed to get 2500 calories per day?
 

ursidae

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
687
I have some of your problems + more and struggle the least on a diet of courgettes, rice, parsnips, honey, shellfish/lean turkey, hydrolysed collagen, cocoa butter. cranberry juice also good
 

TheBeard

Member
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
2,018
Could it just be that our bodies have a certain threshold for lactose that lowers as we age? Have you tried raw milk? Or lactase/enzyme supplements?

I'm drinking raw milk everyday and have the same issue, doesn't have anything to do with milk being raw or pasteurized
 

TheBeard

Member
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
2,018
Look into supplementing with loads of resistant starch, such as raw potato starch. Many have completely cured their SIBO with high doses of resistant starch. I'm currently using several tablespoons a day together with loads of milk and my tongue has remained quite clean. Off the Food Grid: Resistant Starch and SIBO

SIBO develops as a result of liver malfunction and gut inflammation, whichever comes first.
Loads of starch will only keep the gut inflamed, it won't allow the SIBO to leave.
 

jdherk

Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
74
Thank you all for your contributions.

I think the white tongue is an indication of a bacterial or fungal overgrowth, probably originating in my colon, and probably as a result of poor digestion and bad dietary choices over the years. I'm not sure why exactly milk seems to make the symptoms worse, but it does, so I'll have to stop that for now. It seems to somehow support or promote the bacteria or fungi that are causing the white tongue and the dandruff. It really does look like a case of "it's not the milk, it's you".

I'm not going to do anything to drastic just now. My focus will be on improving digestion. The tricky thing is that because of my impaired digestion, many foods are not tolerable (like milk and wheat and fibre). Wheat is the worst offender for me - it's far too constipating. So I'm at risk of a severe calorie deficit, but I'll continue to eat fatty meats, butter, white rice, and eggs, and OJ, and some potatoes maybe, and coffee - so it's not all bad. A bit restrictive, but sometimes that's called for.

Thanks again.

T3 and T4 improved my digestion, I "had" Arthritis in my left hip and ankle joint (I still have it I guess). When I use T3+T4 combined with foods that doesn't irritate my joints I don't have any pain. But I've noticed that when I introduce dairy my dandruff will come back. I also have milk tongue.
 

Hgreen56

Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2020
Messages
591
I do have gut issues. Chronic constipation being one of them. .
do you take bamboo shoots or other fiber source?
if i don't eat fiber, i got constipation to.
one can bamboo shoots or some whole oranges does the trick for me
fiber from cacao powder or chocolate does also work a little.
Beans works to but these makes me also bloat so i avoid them.
Funny enough increasing fat intake or raw carrots does not help with constipation.
 

metabolizm

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
539
I have some of your problems + more and struggle the least on a diet of courgettes, rice, parsnips, honey, shellfish/lean turkey, hydrolysed collagen, cocoa butter. cranberry juice also good

It’s a very difficult situation. I’m almost tempted to keep drinking the milk despite the dandruff and white tongue, because it’s such a rich calorie source and it does not cause bloating and discomfort in the way starch does. But then if the dandruff just gets worse and worse... I don’t know. Horrible having to restrict any food really.
 
Last edited:

metabolizm

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
539
I'm drinking raw milk everyday and have the same issue, doesn't have anything to do with milk being raw or pasteurized

Are you going to continue with the milk despite the white tongue?

I’m having to weigh that up, because the milk seems to do me good in other respects.
 

RealNeat

Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
924
Location
Minnesota
It’s a very difficult situation. I’m almost tempted to keep drinking the milk despite the dandruff and white tongue, because it’s such a rich calorie source and it does not cause bloating and discomfort in the way starch does. But then if the dandruff just gets worse and worse... I don’t know. Horrible having to restrict any food really.
What do you do for a vitamin A/ D source? You might see the dandruff disappear if you get your hands of some FAGE Greek yoghurt.
 

TheSir

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
612
SIBO develops as a result of liver malfunction and gut inflammation, whichever comes first.
Loads of starch will only keep the gut inflamed, it won't allow the SIBO to leave.
It's pointless to try invent a singular cause from which all SIBO results, hardly any disease is that simple. SIBO can have countless of different causes. The main takeaway is that SIBO involves a biome-level imbalance in the colon and whatever restores bacterial balance in the colon will resolve the SIBO by virtue of the healing byproducts of the good colon bacteria.

There is no innate reason to expect starch to keep the gut inflammed. Peoples across the globe have been thriving on starch for millenia.
 

TheBeard

Member
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
2,018
It's pointless to try invent a singular cause from which all SIBO results, hardly any disease is that simple. SIBO can have countless of different causes. The main takeaway is that SIBO involves a biome-level imbalance in the colon and whatever restores bacterial balance in the colon will resolve the SIBO by virtue of the healing byproducts of the good colon bacteria.

There is no innate reason to expect starch to keep the gut inflammed. Peoples across the globe have been thriving on starch for millenia.

Obvservation of my entourage and patients has led me to believe those are the two main causes, if you know any other feel free to point them out.
Introducing a balanced biome isn't sustainable if any of these two variables aren't in check: a well functioning liver, a non inflamed gut.
The dysbiosis will return at some point no matter how good of a microbiome you think you are introducing.

People around the world aren't striving on starch. I don't know how healthy you think the average starch eater is, but they are not.
A majority of people have chronic disease by 50, and are in pretty bad shape and ready to die by the age of 80.
That's not normal. There are instances of people living between 120 and 150 in communities that eat mostly a primal diet.

You "do well" on starch depending on how good your health bagage is at birth and how quickly you degrade it.
I used to thrive on starch in my early 20s, no issue at all.
Fast forward a few antibiotics courses and a lot of stress later, starches make me bloat, give me brainfog, and make me ache all over.

It's just a matter of how long you can last until you gut breaks down and is taken in a vicious circle of inflammation --> dysbiosis --> lack of bile --> inflammation, and so on.
 

TheBeard

Member
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
2,018
Are you going to continue with the milk despite the white tongue?

I’m having to weigh that up, because the milk seems to do me good in other respects.

Oh yes! Raw milk constitutes most of my calories these days, it keeps me warm, energetic, and satiated.
I don't care what the white tongue is a sign of, I know I can't go wrong with raw milk.
When you eat superfoods, any negative reaction is a sign of detox.
When you eat non physiological foods such as beans or brocoli, negative reactions are a sign of poisoning.

A superfood is a food you could live the rest of your life eating on its own:
Milk
Meat

So no, berries are not a superfood.
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
330
Introducing a balanced biome isn't sustainable of any of these two variables aren't in check: a well functioning liver, a non inflamed gut.

As any of us would also need to have adequate adrenal function, kidney filtration, thyroid function, gall bladder & pancreas secretion, and the rest of the working order of the organs of the body in order to reverse stress... I think (and know from experiments in which I've blown myself up in attempts to fix select organs or systems) you have these things backwards. The gut flora needs to be fixed before the rest of the organs can take shape. If the flora is out of whack, the building blocks that come from all food are going out the window while they also cause inflammatory responses.

In Bernard Jensen's Guide to Better Bowel Care, he elaborates on what he calls his "greatest discovery" which is that when a fetus forms in the first few weeks after conception, the brain forms first (nervous tissue)... And then from this, there is a cylindrical tree trunk in which all other facilitative organs sprout off of in the same manner that a plant stalk has buds which stem off of it that eventually become flowers and produce fruit.

The cylinder that grows out of the brain tissue in the womb is the entire length of the gastrointestinal tract... And then out of this tissue, the liver, kidneys, spleen, etc pop off of it over time as the baby develops.

To elaborate on this point further, I'll copy/paste a post I made several months ago (attached pictures related):

***
"The bowel is king. And if we take care of the king, he will take care of his kingdom - our body." - Bernard Jensen

Near the end of the first month after conception, the developing body begins to resemble a cylinder. The first groove that appears is the neural canal which soon becomes the brain + spine together; the nervous system.

The next formation that directly attaches to the nervous system is the "primitive gut tube." This primitive tube is effectively the trunk of the tree that will soon branch out with 'buds' that then form into organs such as the lungs, heart, liver, etc.

Thus, the digestive tract is the original trunk upon which all of our organs stem from. This length of mouth-to-anus is the control center, the prime instrument of the orchestra, or the "king of the kingdom" as Jensen phrases it.

Of all the eliminative organs, the bowel covers the largest internal surface area, handles the greatest eliminative volume, and has the greatest influence over all of the other organs by way of nerve tissue.

By my estimate, the bowel (GI tract) houses the subconscious as the mind houses the conscious.

The digestive tract itself has virtually no pain receptors. Instead, it refers pain to other parts of the body. Some examples of this are pain in the right shoulder pertaining to a gallbladder attack or pain in the left arm pertaining to a heart condition.

In the attached picture, Jensen assesses which parts of the colon reflex to other organs of the body. The colon is the last 20% of the digestive tract where waste is readily eliminated but is nonetheless reabsorbed many times depending on bowel transit time.

Mouth-to-anus transit time should not take more than 18 hours for any given meal.

If going in a backwards direction starting from the rectum, the first turn of the colon corners at the liver, just under the right lung.
Following the transverse colon across the midline to the left (for the person looking down at their stomach), the second corner is at the spleen just under the left lung.

As two easy examples, if the bowel pockets (called diverticula) at these corners are impacted with unmoved waste, you can imagine how it directly blocks circulation from getting to these areas, effectively suffocating the nearby organ by depriving it of nutrient-rich blood and acid-moving lymph.

Furthermore, as just mentioned, a suffocated organ may cause a referred pain to another part of the body, like a limb or a toe, etc.

Suffice it to say that as the GI tract stems from the brain/spine in fetal development, it is concretely affiliated with any sensation of 'dis-ease.'
***

People around the world aren't striving on starch. I don't know how healthy you think the average starch eater is, but they are not.
A majority of people have chronic disease by 50, and are in pretty bad shape and ready to die by the age of 80.

So this can be attributed to starch...
And not the emulsifiers, thickeners, stabilizers, preservatives, nano chemicals, sedentary lifestyle, lack of sunlight, air pollution, EMF on our brains and balls, lack of sleep, enzymatically dead food, fluoride in our foreheads, general state of dehydration, birth control in the water supply, bad posture, pesticides, high societal expectation, and feelings of depression & nihilism that can set in as a result of these physical stressors + overwhelming lack of the knowledge of God (?)

I mean let's get real here.

I used to thrive on starch in my early 20s, no issue at all.
Fast forward a few antibiotics courses and a lot of stress later, starches make me bloat, give me brainfog, and make me ache all over.

Oh, and antibiotics too! Throw that one on the list.

If you believe that there's a way to reformulate the microbiome through antibiotics that kill it, surely you must believe that there's a way to reformulate it by helping it grow with prebiotics. What's so far fetched about this idea other than the fact that cooked and adulterated (i.e. bread) starch doesn't help this cause?

It's just a matter of how long you can last until you gut breaks down and is taken in a vicious circle of inflammation --> dysbiosis --> lack of bile --> inflammation, and so on.

So we're all just in a downward spiral without potential to rehabilitate our health to be better off at 40 than we were at 30?

I know it can be dark at times, but there are plenty of people who have done stupid ***t (for years and years) on this forum and have brought themselves back from the grave.

FB_IMG_1602964965905.jpg FB_IMG_1602964974249.jpg
 
Last edited:

TheSir

Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2019
Messages
612
Obvservation of my entourage and patients has led me to believe those are the two main causes, if you know any other feel free to point them out.
Introducing a balanced biome isn't sustainable if any of these two variables aren't in check: a well functioning liver, a non inflamed gut.
I would argue antibiotics are by far the single most common cause of SIBO. Once your intestines are nuked and overgrowth develops, you end up with toxemia, which then results in the liver dysfunction and inflammation you've observed. The situation can of course quickly acquire a chicken/egg characteristic: it becomes unfeasible to have a healthy liver without a healthy colon, and vice versa. Dysbiosis and dysfunctional liver will then aggravate each other so long as the feedback loop isn't severed.

A majority of people have chronic disease by 50, and are in pretty bad shape and ready to die by the age of 80.
That's not normal. There are instances of people living between 120 and 150 in communities that eat mostly a primal diet.
This goes for a majority of civilized people irrespective of their diet -- in this sense it is normal, even if not ideal. There are also instances of people living well beyond 100s on a starch dominant diet. Living to 115, that is not normal, even if ideal.

You "do well" on starch depending on how good your health bagage is at birth and how quickly you degrade it.
I used to thrive on starch in my early 20s, no issue at all.
Fast forward a few antibiotics courses and a lot of stress later, starches make me bloat, give me brainfog, and make me ache all over.
Anti-biotics caused your outcome, not aging. It is misguided to say "I used to thrive on starch when I was young". No, you used to thrive on starch until antibiotics nuked your gut. Starch not working for you now is not a testament to the harmfulness of starch, but the incompetence of your gut, a condition that can be resolved.
 
Last edited:

TheBeard

Member
Joined
May 16, 2018
Messages
2,018
I would argue antibiotics are by far the single most common cause of SIBO. Once your intestines are nuked and overgrowth develops, you end up with toxemia, which then results in the liver dysfunction and inflammation you've observed. The situation can of course quickly acquire a chicken/egg characteristic: it becomes unfeasible to have a healthy liver without a healthy colon, and vice versa. Dysbiosis and dysfunctional liver will then aggravate each other so long as the feedback loop isn't severed.


This goes for a majority of civilized people irrespective of their diet -- in this sense it is normal, even if not ideal. There are also instances of people living well beyond 100s on a starch dominant diet. Living to 115, that is not normal, even if ideal.


Anti-biotics caused your outcome, not aging. It is misguided to say "I used to thrive on starch when I was young". No, you used to thrive on starch until antibiotics nuked your gut. Starch not working for you now is not a testament to the harmfulness of starch, but the incompetence of your gut, a condition that can be resolved.

I didn't point out the age as a testimony that the body works well when it's young, rather as a point in time when I hadn't overdone antibiotics yet.

I'm the first one to point out that age isn't the issue here, in the first comment you quoted from me...
 

metabolizm

Member
Thread starter
Joined
Nov 30, 2019
Messages
539
I have some of your problems + more and struggle the least on a diet of courgettes, rice, parsnips, honey, shellfish/lean turkey, hydrolysed collagen, cocoa butter. cranberry juice also good

How many calories are you getting a day from those foods?

I'm a bit concerned about not reaching calories targets. Can happen very easily when you have an inflamed gut, and you have to avoid whole food groups.
 

ursidae

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2020
Messages
687
How many calories are you getting a day from those foods?

I'm a bit concerned about not reaching calories targets. Can happen very easily when you have an inflamed gut, and you have to avoid whole food groups.
About 2000, I add a lot of honey (might be a problem for some) to my courgettes and in the evening I add more fat to my meat only meal. I choose a higher glucose raw honey, linden honey. I’m avoiding eggs as an experiment but when I used them as a fat source they didn’t give me digestive problems, beef tallow is also great. I’d use butter to help my gut if it didn’t give me skin issues so right now I’m following the recommendations amazoniac gave me a long time ago: taking sodium butyrate and taking a sodium acetate/ vinegar+baking soda+honey/ mixture away from meals, I’m also adding ginger and cinnamon to my parsnips/cooked apples. If I could afford it I’d give some good B1/B2 supplement a go, I keep reading it helped people with digestion
 
Similar threads
Thread starter Title Forum Replies Date
S How to skim your own milk Milk 4
M Usda organic label and raw milk Ask For Help or Advice 0
N Milk, mTOR and cancer Dairy, Eggs 52
L Switching to OJ concentrate and powdered milk makes a huge difference Diet 60
GelatinGoblin Which milk has the best Phosphorus to Calcium ratio? Dairy 29
Hgreen56 Milk cause Crohn disease & Rheumatoid Arthritis? Dairy 7
M Hidden ingredients present in American milk Diet 0
metabolizm Is zero starch only possible for milk drinkers? Ask For Help or Advice 37
RWilly A cautionary note for those drinking milk and using baking soda or calcium carbonate Milk 3
Sexypizza Is 2% milk ok? or too much fat? Milk 2
R How can I EAT my milk? Diet, Recipes 14
Atma Evaporating Milk to Reduce Urination? Working Through Milk Issues 4
M Prolactin in Milk Hair & Nails 11
M Ideas to sweeten milk ? Ask For Help or Advice 5
TypicalJock Horrible reaction to milk Ask For Help or Advice 37
H Lemon juice mixed with milk Diet, Recipes 3
Hgreen56 Does milk or calcium raise gaba? Milk 3
K Question about added vitamins in milk Milk 2
A Consuming Milk Increase Your Risk for Prostate Cancer? Milk 35
M Mixing OJ and milk? Ask For Help or Advice 6
Atma 81 Year Old Woman Ate Fruit and Milk Diet for 27 Years Milk 58
H I am lactose intolerant - Goat's Milk, Cow's Milk, Sheep's Milk & Casein. What now? Digestion 24
Hgreen56 The amount of carbs/kcal decrease when you boil the milk? Dairy 1
B Raw Milk Indigestion Doubts About Milk 7
R Milk for LPR (silent reflux)? Calcium? Milk 10
G Starch persorption from fortified milk? Doubts About Milk 1
Hgreen56 why milk and starch don't mix? Diet 6
merberg Which is better: uht milk or powdered milk? Ask For Help or Advice 3
M Forcing milk to cure lactose intolerance experiment Working Through Milk Issues 18
B The Land of Milk and Money Milk 0
M Organic Milk Contains More PUFA? Diet 3
TypicalJock Should I drink Milk or Oj in the morning? Ask For Help or Advice 5
egoy Anti-Peat (Curezone Thread) Milk: cause of autism? Debate - Anti-Peat 43
bzmazu Merry Christmas!... try my Milk and Brandy Milk 6
username Is it normal to get very pale stools from drinking lots of milk? Milk 6
TypicalJock Could milk possibly give me more acne? Ask For Help or Advice 8
tankasnowgod Milk, OJ, Cottage Cheese, Yogurt..... Does Temperature of these foods matter? Digestion 36
TypicalJock How many liters/quarts of skimmed milk do you guys drink daily? Ask For Help or Advice 9
S Thoughts on Casein protein vs cheese or milk? Diet 7
P how to separate fat from milk? Diet 3
Epistrophy Making Your Own Skimmed Milk Milk 0
Hgreen56 Someone Use A Milk Cream Separator? Diet 5
Serge No Milk No OJ, Feedback For My Diet Please Diet 2
M Coconut Milk Feels Like Castration Coconut Oil 6
J Had Extreme Reaction To Milk And Vitamin D. Maybe Milk Alkali Syndrome? Milk 26
MaxVerstappen Best Way To Add Honey Or Syrup In Milk Sugar, Honey 9
A Here Is How To Drink 1 Liter Of Cow Milk At Once Without Feeling Cold Milk 18
S Issue With Goats Milk Ask For Help or Advice 0
J Is Goats Milk Okay? Working Through Milk Issues 11
Vileplume Digesting Frozen V Fresh Milk Digestion 7

Similar threads

Top