Milk Tongue

metabolizm

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I've been drinking more milk than normal (not a huge amount by any means), and have noticed that my tongue has acquired a white coating. It seems to disappear when I stop drinking milk for a few days. It's unsightly and not easy to scrub off. Do any of you milk drinkers have this same problem?
 

Ben.

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Same Problem here. Not sure whats causing this. I used to drink way more milk back in my "healthy" youth days ... maybe it's feeding into some specific bacteria/fungus/parasite at the moment causing an overgrowth thats stressing the body out (just an idea, not sure).

Especially yoghurt and cheese seems to cause this for me. Ate a pizza last night because ... well im just a human being after all ... had no issues this time after staying away from milk for over one and a half week (my heartbeat went realy high tho for 5 minutes afterwards)
 
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I had this experience recently while I was drinking a lot of milk as well. It even got a point that it had a noticeable smell, fortunately a tongue scraper fixed it immediately, but obviously it's a gut thing.

Right after that I added in a 9ounce bag of spinach to a meal of lean meat everyday and within 4 days the coating was gone and my body odor went from 7/10 to 2/10 in pungency.

I had watercress one day (part of the cabbage family) and it brought me down for a few hours. Can't remember a time where I had a positive experience with sulfurous vegetables unless I was starving and they happened to be around.

I think it's specifically something beneficial with the leaves. Cook them for sure but just until they're green and wilted.
 

metabolizm

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I had this experience recently while I was drinking a lot of milk as well. It even got a point that it had a noticeable smell, fortunately a tongue scraper fixed it immediately, but obviously it's a gut thing.

Right after that I added in a 9ounce bag of spinach to a meal of lean meat everyday and within 4 days the coating was gone and my body odor went from 7/10 to 2/10 in pungency.

I had watercress one day (part of the cabbage family) and it brought me down for a few hours. Can't remember a time where I had a positive experience with sulfurous vegetables unless I was starving and they happened to be around.

I think it's specifically something beneficial with the leaves. Cook them for sure but just until they're green and wilted.

I don't think green leaves work for me, but I'll keep trying. Thanks.
 

metabolizm

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Same Problem here. Not sure whats causing this. I used to drink way more milk back in my "healthy" youth days ... maybe it's feeding into some specific bacteria/fungus/parasite at the moment causing an overgrowth thats stressing the body out (just an idea, not sure).

Especially yoghurt and cheese seems to cause this for me. Ate a pizza last night because ... well im just a human being after all ... had no issues this time after staying away from milk for over one and a half week (my heartbeat went realy high tho for 5 minutes afterwards)

Yes, it's very frustrating. I tried brushing it off with baking soda today, which helped a little, but clearly it's not a superficial coating that can be wiped away. I've noticed that mine is even worse, almost crusty, at the back of my tongue. What a nightmare. Probably suggests something not local to the tongue, but further down, feeding on something. Would love to solve this one.
 

TheSir

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Sounds like SIBO/intestinal toxemia. Do you drink lactose-free or regular milk?
 

metabolizm

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Sounds like SIBO/intestinal toxemia. Do you drink lactose-free or regular milk?

Regular milk. I've suspected SIBO too, but don't know what to do about it.
 

Ben.

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I had this experience recently while I was drinking a lot of milk as well. It even got a point that it had a noticeable smell, fortunately a tongue scraper fixed it immediately, but obviously it's a gut thing.

Yes, it's very frustrating. I tried brushing it off with baking soda today, which helped a little, but clearly it's not a superficial coating that can be wiped away. I've noticed that mine is even worse, almost crusty, at the back of my tongue. What a nightmare. Probably suggests something not local to the tongue, but further down, feeding on something. Would love to solve this one.

Well i'v been working with tongue scrapers and mouthwashes but it led to no long term solutions in the timespan of 2 years . As you guys have pointed out on your own the issue is further down in the digestion chain.

Currently experimenting with some ... natural herbs, supplements and enemas i feel like im able to eat some milk products again without triggering coating/wierd aftertaste. To behonest i'm still a little scared going full milk/cheese every day. The white coating also seems worse after a night of alcohol/partying or if im feeling sickish.
 
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MrGilbert

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Could it just be that our bodies have a certain threshold for lactose that lowers as we age? Have you tried raw milk? Or lactase/enzyme supplements?
 

Ben.

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Look into supplementing with loads of resistant starch, such as raw potato starch. Many have completely cured their SIBO with high doses of resistant starch. I'm currently using several tablespoons a day together with loads of milk and my tongue has remained quite clean. Off the Food Grid: Resistant Starch and SIBO

That's interesting. In my bodybuilding days i used to meal prep and precook loats of potatoes and rice after eating them reheated/fried in coconut oil. Once cooked and then cooled down potatoes and rice are essentially resistant starches right? I'll keep this in mind for future endevours.

I've some reservations tho as in resistant starches potentially feeding "bad" bacteria.
 

Ben.

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Could it just be that our bodies have a certain threshold for lactose that lowers as we age? Have you tried raw milk? Or lactase/enzyme supplements?

Maybe there is some aging degradation involved but in general i wouldn't accept this premise. Twohandsondeck (3rd post) has reported himself of being able to drink alot of milch again after being intolerant for 10 years after a fruit diet, turpentine usage and a milch protocoll ... thing(?).

But not just him others on this forum and even danny rodden reported being able to consume milk products with almsot no problems in high amounts after certain gut changing interventions eventho they couldn't eat it for a long time before that.

So unless you realy have an genetic issue from birth with milk i see no reason why someone who managed to eat milk for the majority of his life just suddenly shouldn't be able to anymore.
 
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metabolizm

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My hope was that improving transit time would solve this problem, and milk seems to be helping with that, at least. (As well as only recently finding out that low fibre really helps me). I may have to wait it out a bit longer and see if it makes any difference in the long run. I’ve been drinking milk since I was a kid so I tend to think I should be able to handle it by now.
 

TheSir

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That's interesting. In my bodybuilding days i used to meal prep and precook loats of potatoes and rice after eating them reheated/fried in coconut oil. Once cooked and then cooled down potatoes and rice are essentially resistant starches right? I'll keep this in mind for future endevours.
You are right, cooling down produces one type of RS. I have no idea how beneficial that type is compared to raw starch, or if there is much difference in the first place. I think in order to reap the benefits of RS the most straightforward way is to simply supplement raw starch, so you aren't left guessing how much RS you really are getting.
I've some reservations tho as in resistant starches potentially feeding "bad" bacteria.
Technically everything that feeds the good bacteria feeds some bad bacteria too. The trick is that when you feed the good fermentative bacteria, which RS does through amylolysis, they produce acids that make the colon less hospitable for the bad putrefactive bacteria (bad bacteria like alkaline gur environment, which can seem counterintuitive if you come from the acid-alkaline dietary paradigm). So simply feeding the good bacteria should be enough in order to keep the bad bacteria under control (it isn't possible to completely eliminate the bad bacteria, they are an innate part of our intestinal baggage, and harmless when not overgrown).

Essentially, the good colon bacteria feed on sugar, and the bad bacteria on stuff that is vulnerable to putrefaction, such as proteins. Thus the main aim in transforming the gut biome is to ensure that the colon gets enough sugar. When you have SIBO, simple sugars will get eaten by the bacteria in the small intestine, leaving little sugar for the good colon bacteria. That is why you have to eat sugars that are digested slowly, so that the SIBO bacteria don't get the chance to steal it all for themselves. Lactose is the slowest digstible sugar, and raw starch in this sense too, because only the colon can turn it into sugar. According to the Kellog book you require about 200g of lactose / starch in a day in order to positively impact the colon. That's about 5 quarts of milk or several tablespoons of potato starch.
 

ursidae

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I’ve been reading about the vagus nerve affecting gut motility, a failing nerve can cause gastroparesis. This could be it for some people with slow transit


this guy recommends gargling and some other simple things for stimulation which I’m gonna experiment with. Personally walking helps me a ton with transit time
 
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opson123

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You are right, cooling down produces one type of RS. I have no idea how beneficial that type is compared to raw starch, or if there is much difference in the first place. I think in order to reap the benefits of RS the most straightforward way is to simply supplement raw starch, so you aren't left guessing how much RS you really are getting.

Technically everything that feeds the good bacteria feeds some bad bacteria too. The trick is that when you feed the good fermentative bacteria, which RS does through amylolysis, they produce acids that make the colon less hospitable for the bad putrefactive bacteria (bad bacteria like alkaline gur environment, which can seem counterintuitive if you come from the acid-alkaline dietary paradigm). So simply feeding the good bacteria should be enough in order to keep the bad bacteria under control (it isn't possible to completely eliminate the bad bacteria, they are an innate part of our intestinal baggage, and harmless when not overgrown).

Essentially, the good colon bacteria feed on sugar, and the bad bacteria on stuff that is vulnerable to putrefaction, such as proteins. Thus the main aim in transforming the gut biome is to ensure that the colon gets enough sugar. When you have SIBO, simple sugars will get eaten by the bacteria in the small intestine, leaving little sugar for the good colon bacteria. That is why you have to eat sugars that are digested slowly, so that the SIBO bacteria don't get the chance to steal it all for themselves. Lactose is the slowest digstible sugar, and raw starch in this sense too, because only the colon can turn it into sugar. According to the Kellog book you require about 200g of lactose / starch in a day in order to positively impact the colon. That's about 5 quarts of milk or several tablespoons of potato starch.
I wonder if fructose would work as well in feeding the colon bacteria since the goal is to simply supply the colon with enough carbohydrates and change the "character" of the organisms from poison-formers into harmless acid-formers. Lactose and raw starch are great for this according to Kellogg, because they digest slowly and thus reach the colon. Eating large amounts of honey a day would definitely mean, at least in my case, that a large amount of fructose reaches the colon.
 
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TheSir

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I wonder if fructose would work as well in feeding the colon bacteria since the goal is to simply supply the colon with enough carbohydrates and change the "character" of the organisms from poison-formers into harmless acid-formers. Lactose and raw starch are great for this according to Kellogg, because they digest slowly and thus reach the colon. Eating large amounts of honey a day would definitely mean, at least in my case, that a large amount of fructose reaches the colon.
Assuming that you are frequently eating large amounts of fructose throughout the day so as not to give the small intestine a chance to steal it all, I suspect it would be doable. Another option would be to do honey enemas and directly supply the colon with sugar this way.
 

Ben.

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Essentially, the good colon bacteria feed on sugar, and the bad bacteria on stuff that is vulnerable to putrefaction, such as proteins. Thus the main aim in transforming the gut biome is to ensure that the colon gets enough sugar. When you have SIBO, simple sugars will get eaten by the bacteria in the small intestine, leaving little sugar for the good colon bacteria. That is why you have to eat sugars that are digested slowly, so that the SIBO bacteria don't get the chance to steal it all for themselves. Lactose is the slowest digstible sugar, and raw starch in this sense too, because only the colon can turn it into sugar. According to the Kellog book you require about 200g of lactose / starch in a day in order to positively impact the colon. That's about 5 quarts of milk or several tablespoons of potato starch.

If Lactose is such a slow digestible sugar (or Resistant starch) then why would milk cause an overgrowth in the smaller intestine or tongue coating if we try to feed the colon?

And how does supplying the colon with sugar take care of the overgrowth in the small intestine? Is the Resistant starch resulting in moving the bacteria?


I thought the whole purpose of eating easy sugars and supplying the body with energy is trough the small intestine absorbing most of it instead of having all this fermentation/byproducts from bacteria.

On the contrary - since i started eating easy sugars my health improved somewhat. Starches themself don't cause issues tho.

I am confused by all of this.

. Another option would be to do honey enemas and directly supply the colon with sugar this way.

How does a honey enema look like? 1 litre honey with a tablespoon honey mixed?
 

Ableton

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i have the same and just stopped drinking big amounts milk because of it. i just whiten my coffee which adds to maybe 100ml a day. if I get coating and bad breath my body is telling me something. im not going to try to work my way around that somehow
 
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