Milk Thistle (silibinin) May Treat Cushing Disease And High Cortisol

[Bart1]

I'm at the half of a 30 day milk thistle regimen. I have cushing like symptoms, (the buffalow neck). I must say I feel much more relaxed and energized. I take a standardized Silymarin extract 30:1 . I take 1500 mg a day. I also experience less pain in my neck. I sleep better so it's definitely working for me.

 

[Hoodlt]

I'm at the half of a 30 day milk thistle regimen. I have cushing like symptoms, (the buffalow neck). I must say I feel much more relaxed and energized. I take a standardized Silymarin extract 30:1 . I take 1500 mg a day. I also experience less pain in my neck. I sleep better so it's definitely working for me.

This is AWESOME! Do you mind sharing what brand you are taking and where you get it from? I really hope I can get him to stick with it. Right now we are using a German pharmaceutical. Thank you!

 

[haidut]

Wondering if anyone has any more to add about milk thistle for Cushings. My 21 year old son shows many symptoms of Cushings. We are waiting for better insurance to kick in and get him tested. This summer he visited us in Europe (before we realized he may have Cushings but knew something was very wrong with him), he was having gall bladder issues and hardly able to eat. We went to a pharmacy and they recommended a German milk thistle product. It was absolutely amazing the difference it made in him very quickly. He got an appetite back, slept better and had no pain from eating. We bought him a 6 month supply until we could get home and get some insurance. Fast forward a few months and he felt really good and stopped taking them. His depression returned with a vengeance, he had gallbladder pain and lost his appetite and his sleep was awful. When we asked if he was taking the red pills....nope, he had stopped. Well a few days later with those in him, he is feeling much better. After reading the article on milk thistle to treat Cushings, we are going to stock pile the pills and really hope we can possibly cure him. The surgery for Cushings is horrible and often the tumor comes back. They have to enter in through the nose. This pill is actually a German pharmaceutical and seems very standardized. At this point with him becoming morbidly obese from he Cushings, we are not going to worry about the estrogenic effect though we will try to keep him on boiled mushrooms and grated carrots. If anyone has anything to add or help, I am all ears. This group is very helpful.

I would ask the doctor about the drug RU486 which is by now the defacto standard treatment for Cushing. Progesterone, testosterone, DHT, oxandrolone, have all been also used successfully for Cushing and the doctor can prescribe any of them.
As far as more "natural" approaches, cascara/emodin inhibit cortisol synthesis and have shown robust effect in animal trials but have not been tried in humans yet.

 

[Hoodlt]

I would ask the doctor about the drug RU486 which is by now the defacto standard treatment for Cushing. Progesterone, testosterone, DHT, oxandrolone, have all been also used successfully for Cushing and the doctor can prescribe any of them.
As far as more "natural" approaches, cascara/emodin inhibit cortisol synthesis and have shown robust effect in animal trials but have not been tried in humans yet.

Thank you for that info. We are going to give the Milk Thistle a try for one month at a high dose and see how he does. I keep reading about patients who have the surgery and it grows back so that isn't very appealing. It has morphed into more psychological issues and he has some hair pulling and cutting so we gotta get ahead of it. I have Progesterone and I will try that on the spot where he pulled his hair out and I also have cascara that I will give a try. Going to have to work on getting the rest. Thanks for jumping in.

 

[haidut]

Thank you for that info. We are going to give the Milk Thistle a try for one month at a high dose and see how he does. I keep reading about patients who have the surgery and it grows back so that isn't very appealing. It has morphed into more psychological issues and he has some hair pulling and cutting so we gotta get ahead of it. I have Progesterone and I will try that on the spot where he pulled his hair out and I also have cascara that I will give a try. Going to have to work on getting the rest. Thanks for jumping in.

Surgery very rarely works. The risks are immense and of course downplayed by the doctors, and sometimes it can make the situation worse. The doctor may even suggest removing one of both adrenal glands but this is even more dangerous as it can cause Nelson syndrome.
Nelson's syndrome - Wikipedia

 

[Hoodlt]

Surgery very rarely works. The risks are immense and of course downplayed by the doctors, and sometimes it can make the situation worse. The doctor may even suggest removing one of both adrenal glands but this is even more dangerous as it can cause Nelson syndrome.
Nelson's syndrome - Wikipedia

I am in a Cushings group on Facebook and you are spot on. They seem to think the ONLY way to cure themselves is through surgery. I found a Pharma company in Italy that is doing clinical studies on Milk Thistle and am going to try to get him in it if possible. I agree completely with you. Some even have their pituitary removed and have replacement hormones the rest of their lives. For now, we are sticking with the MT as it is providing him the most relief. When he eats well (avoids PUFAs) and takes his MT, he does extremely well. I know I said it before but I will say it again...I really appreciate the sharing of information here. Thank you!!!

 

[Bart1]

I want to share that I quit the MT. I don’t know for sure but I think I got some estrogen symptoms. It could also be that my metabolism is switching from stress hormones to thyroid. My cholesterol is up, was always low. I now switched to MB, cypro and thyroid.

 

[Hoodlt]

This is regarding the original study posted at the very top of the thread: IBI licenses Silibinin for the use in Cushing´s Disease

I contacted them and they are presently testing on animals and don't anticipate to be testing on humans for about 2 years. But I feel like companies would not do this much work if they didn't see promise so we are going ahead with milk thistle. The one I have has a lot of junk in it so I need a purer one but I am feeling hopeful. I am wondering how they induce Cushings in animals to test them?

 

[Bart1]

This is regarding the original study posted at the very top of the thread: IBI licenses Silibinin for the use in Cushing´s Disease

I contacted them and they are presently testing on animals and don't anticipate to be testing on humans for about 2 years. But I feel like companies would not do this much work if they didn't see promise so we are going ahead with milk thistle. The one I have has a lot of junk in it so I need a purer one but I am feeling hopeful. I am wondering how they induce Cushings in animals to test them?

I have used Jarrow Formulas Milk Thistle i ordered it on iherb

 

[haidut]

I am in a Cushings group on Facebook and you are spot on. They seem to think the ONLY way to cure themselves is through surgery. I found a Pharma company in Italy that is doing clinical studies on Milk Thistle and am going to try to get him in it if possible. I agree completely with you. Some even have their pituitary removed and have replacement hormones the rest of their lives. For now, we are sticking with the MT as it is providing him the most relief. When he eats well (avoids PUFAs) and takes his MT, he does extremely well. I know I said it before but I will say it again...I really appreciate the sharing of information here. Thank you!!!

I would also ask the doctor about RU486. It seems to work quite well for Cushing and does not seem to have serious side effects, and can be found in pretty much any country as it is used as an abortion pill as well. Google for "RU496 Cushing" and show the doctor the studies.

 

[Bart1]

I would also ask the doctor about RU486. It seems to work quite well for Cushing and does not seem to have serious side effects, and can be found in pretty much any country as it is used as an abortion pill as well. Google for "RU496 Cushing" and show the doctor the studies.

@haidut
Depending on the severity of one's symptoms, if the severity is not yet as extreme as all the internet pictures, but there is a lot of stress, fat buildup and buffalo hump.. is cypro, lapodin, progesterone, pregnenolone a better route to take for a male? How does RU496 fit into the other cortisol antagonists ?

 

[haidut]

@haidut
Depending on the severity of one's symptoms, if the severity is not yet as extreme as all the internet pictures, but there is a lot of stress, fat buildup and buffalo hump.. is cypro, lapodin, progesterone, pregnenolone a better route to take for a male? How does RU496 fit into the other cortisol antagonists ?

Yes, that's a route I would explore before jumping on the RU486 bandwagon. Btw, cyproheptadine has also been successfully used for Cushing syndrome so it is at least as good as a pharma drug alternative to RU486. Emodin would probably also work pretty well.
Back in the day before RU486 and emodin were known, Cushing treatment was usually done with a combination of progesterone + anabolic steroid. Testosterone esters were commonly used, but also nandrolone, oxandrolone, Norbolethone, etc. Progesterone on its own or with a little DHEA may work well as an OTC option.

 

[Hoodlt]

I think we will stick with the MT for now but also add in some Cascara, progesterone and lots of carrot salads/boiled mushrooms to keep estrogen in check. One thing that is HUGE in common with all the Cushings people is elevated liver enzymes and/or fatty liver and gallbladder issues. Just a small dose of the MT has kept his gallbladder at bay so he doesn't needs an emergency surgery on that. Will report back at the end of January how we do cleaning up his diet, adding some good metabolic foods in, increasing the dose of MT, and adding some Cascara, Progesterone and maybe the kitchen sink. This is such a horrific condition and has robbed him of some really great years. I am ready to put it behind us. I really appreciate the input. Thank you.

 

[Ras]

The one I have has a lot of junk in it so I need a purer one

Nootropics Depot is an excellent source. Otherwise, I wouldn't trust any brands beyond Jarrow, Thorne, and NOW.

 

[Hoodlt]

Nootropics Depot is an excellent source. Otherwise, I wouldn't trust any brands beyond Jarrow, Thorne, and NOW.

Thank you!

 

[Ras]

I had a study where 360mg of milk thistle would raise igfbp3, and decrease igf1 but every superior doses would decrease igfbp3 (the next dose being 500something). Estrogen is known to cleave igfbp3 (but also cortisol), so any superior doses was definitely not beneficial, I can't think of a single thing that decreases igfbp3 and still can be beneficial. Can't find the study anymore but there's this one that has similar results:

Was it this study?

I think that silibinin is a 1:1 mixture of silybin A and B, flavonolignans which constitute a portion of the complex silymarin, which itself constitutes 4 - 6% of milk thistle seeds.

 

[Elephanto]

@Ras Seems so. As small as the fraction of silibinin is, I think it participates majorly to the effect of milk thistle. It would also make sense that the other components work in a similar fashion since most of the effects of isolated silibinin seem to correspond with its traditional uses and more general analyses of milk thistle. Although yeah, I misremembered and mentioning the quantity as milk thistle was wrong. I do still believe in a biphasic effect on health looking like a bell curve regarding frequency of usage and quantity.

 

[Ras]

@Ras Seems so. As small as the fraction of silibinin is, I think it participates majorly to the effect of milk thistle. It would also make sense that the other components work in a similar fashion since most of the effects of isolated silibinin seem to correspond with its traditional uses and more general analyses of milk thistle. Although yeah, I misremembered and mentioning the quantity as milk thistle was wrong. I do still believe in a biphasic effect on health looking like a bell curve regarding frequency of usage and quantity.

But the full text of that study reveals that silibinin did not influence IGFBP-3 at any dose:

Levels of IGFBP-3, IGF-I, and M1dG were studied as potential markers of silibinin efficacy in the peripheral blood from 24 patients obtained before the first dose of silibinin and between 1 and 4 hours after the last (i.e., seventh) dose. Figure 4 shows that there was no significant difference in concentration of IGFBP-3 or IGF-I between pretreatment and posttreatment serum at any of the dose levels. Neither did comparison of the molar ratio of IGF-I to IGFBP-3 reveal any difference between pre-intervention and post-intervention serum (data not shown). Statistical analysis of the difference between pre-intervention and post-intervention values for IGF-I in serum from patients on 1,440 mg silibinin (Fig. 4B) afforded P = 0.07, tentatively hinting at the possibility that, given a larger cohort of individuals and/or a longer period of intervention, this dose may decrease IGF-I levels. When IGFBP-3/IGF-I levels were compared between patients with different disease stage, there was no obvious difference between Dukes stage on the one side and IGFBP-3/IGF-I levels or susceptibility toward modulation of biomarker levels by silibinin on the other (data not shown).

Howbeit in said study, they reference a murine model which showed an influence on IGFBP-3. And they later acknowledge:

It is of course conceivable that these putative efficacy biomarkers would be amenable to modulation by these doses of silibinin when given over longer periods of intervention. One week might have been too short to achieve a long-lasting effect on the IGF axis.

 

[Hoodlt]

Have him on the Nootropics milk thistle. He has good days and bad days. I would love the Cushings to disappear overnight as it sucks so much. I will say, his liver enzymes are back in the normal range. Now he has high white blood count but the liver is better. Still has crushing depression, though.

 

[Elephanto]

@Ras Then the fact that there is no influence on IGFBP-3 could suggest that you are looking at forces working in opposite directions. See, Endotoxins and Estrogen are both factors which downregulate IGFBP-3. We should expect, and we often see, an increase in IGFBP-3 with substances that are either anti-estrogenic, anti-endotoxins or both. If milk thistle's anti-endotoxins effect increases it, while its estrogenic effect decreases it, it can result in an insignificant variation. Which would point back to its traditional use for an hint at optimal frequency : occasional or temporary. In that case, it is possible that there would have been an increase in IGFBP-3, especially when the subject needs what it provides.