Milk Thistle (silibinin) May Treat Cushing Disease And High Cortisol

[Iron Man]

I am not having any success with my ALT or Ferritin. Last week, my blood test showed my ALT was at 66 and my Ferritin was now at 367. It is climbing.

My cholesterol dropped from 8.8 down to 6.7, so I am very happy with this.

So far I have tried IP6 (in large doses), Taurine (3g), Milk Thistle (in large doses, but once perday, so maybe I need to divide doses??).

I am donating blood this week for the first time, as I need to get this under control.

I have researched some and it seems that high Ferritin and low Testosterone go hand in hand.

Any ideas will be gratefully appreciated. Thanks!

 

[Iron Man]

bump?

 

[extremecheddar]

I just read that Milk thistle extract that is derived from the seed is not estrogenic?

 

[thebigpeatowski]

I just read that Milk thistle extract that is derived from the seed is not estrogenic?

I've read that the ground seeds aren't estrogenic, but can't remember where I read it.

I bought a bunch of organic milk thistle seed and plan on grinding it myself, but I've not begun this particular experiment yet....still recovering from the last dumb thing I tried.

 

[NathanK]

I remember reading something a year or two ago that it becomes estrogenic over 600mg

 

[Nick Ireland]

I've been using milk thistle again, three times a day. I have haemachromatosis genes but my iron has been kept in limits by diet. The liver specialist was quite impressed, expecting a guy in his forties with my gene combo to have much higher levels. I had been able to use doxy to lower my levels further - which he said he had never heard of. I gave him the relevant studies.
Anyway, milk thistle extract, high strength, feels good to me. I feel calmer, sleep better and stay asleep longer. I presume it is lowering cortisol OR the stress attributed effects of elevated serum iron. It's cool it can do both. I have lost water weight too - my skin doesn't look anywhere near as puffy and I am more defined.
However, I am reading conflicting reports about milk thistle on pubmed. One isolated study says it's bad for haemachromatosis whilst many others says it is good for iron overload. Does anyone have an opinion? That isolated study was done with a woman who looked to have a truckload of existing problems.

"68-year-old Caucasian woman, presented with abnormal results of liver function tests, a ferritin level of 2118 μg/L (normal levels are 15 to 225 μg/L), and transferrin saturation of 98%. She complained of severe fatigue. Her body mass index was 33. Comorbid conditions included type 2 diabetes mellitus, asthma, hypothyroidism, borderline hypertension, borderline diastolic dysfunction, and a fatty liver "

Exacerbation of hemochromatosis by ingestion of milk thistle

 

[haidut]

I've been using milk thistle again, three times a day. I have haemachromatosis genes but my iron has been kept in limits by diet. The liver specialist was quite impressed, expecting a guy in his forties with my gene combo to have much higher levels. I had been able to use doxy to lower my levels further - which he said he had never heard of. I gave him the relevant studies.
Anyway, milk thistle extract, high strength, feels good to me. I feel calmer, sleep better and stay asleep longer. I presume it is lowering cortisol OR the stress attributed effects of elevated serum iron. It's cool it can do both. I have lost water weight too - my skin doesn't look anywhere near as puffy and I am more defined.
However, I am reading conflicting reports about milk thistle on pubmed. One isolated study says it's bad for haemachromatosis whilst many others says it is good for iron overload. Does anyone have an opinion? That isolated study was done with a woman who looked to have a truckload of existing problems.

"68-year-old Caucasian woman, presented with abnormal results of liver function tests, a ferritin level of 2118 μg/L (normal levels are 15 to 225 μg/L), and transferrin saturation of 98%. She complained of severe fatigue. Her body mass index was 33. Comorbid conditions included type 2 diabetes mellitus, asthma, hypothyroidism, borderline hypertension, borderline diastolic dysfunction, and a fatty liver "

Exacerbation of hemochromatosis by ingestion of milk thistle

The only issue that I have heard about comes from Peat and some studies I have seen. Milk thistle, in high doses and taken chronically, can be estrogenic (like pretty much all plant extracts). I think it activates ER alpha, but the studies were all in vitro. Aspirin, vitamin E, and milk are also pretty good iron chelators.

 

[ddjd]

I thought anything that is anti Cortisol will also exert an anti Estrogen effect?

 

[JDreamer]

I don't have access to the study but it was both in vitro and vivo. The group behind the research has already filed a patent on silibinin for treating Cushing disease, so they sure believe it is effective. Give the suppression of silibinin on ACTH, this probably led to significant reductions in cortisol as well since symptoms in the treated mice disappeared completely. Milk thistle may be another option for reducing cortisol, even though it is estrogenic in higher doses. It also chelates iron, which explains some its protective effects on the liver and neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimers.

http://planetsave.com/2015/02/17/milk-t ... rch-finds/
http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/vaop/n ... .3776.html

Question.

What is considered a higher dosage? Reason I ask is I started supplementing with Milk Thistle a few weeks ago. I've been taking a 175mg pill roughly three times a day. Miraculously my excessive underarm sweat has lessened up. However, I'm worried about estrogenic effects with my already ongoing battle with hair-less and recession though.

 

[haidut]

Question.

What is considered a higher dosage? Reason I ask is I started supplementing with Milk Thistle a few weeks ago. I've been taking a 175mg pill roughly three times a day. Miraculously my excessive underarm sweat has lessened up. However, I'm worried about estrogenic effects with my already ongoing battle with hair-less and recession though.

It depends on the specific product and its extraction method. Most products I have seen provide 175mg per dose and recommend 2 capsules a day. Milk thistle can be estrogenic, so I would not go above that dose and there are probably safer anti-cortisol remedies like progesterone, DHEA, aspirin, emodin, etc.

 

[Mossy]

Maybe someone has experienced this same effect or can help to explain why this would be, but I'm taking a new milk thistle product that causes liver pain and discomfort. My guess for this issue would be one of three reasons: 1) it's a poor quality product; 2) it's doing as it should and helping, though manifesting that help in a bit of temporary pain; or 3) it's the estrogenic effect, which is showing to not be beneficial to my liver.

For reference, I've taken milk thistle in the past and I recall it making me feel better, ultimately. Though, I don't recall this initial pain/discomfort.

I realize there are so many factors, but welcome any input. Thanks.

 

[Koveras]

"68-year-old Caucasian woman, presented with abnormal results of liver function tests, a ferritin level of 2118 μg/L (normal levels are 15 to 225 μg/L), and transferrin saturation of 98%. She complained of severe fatigue. Her body mass index was 33. Comorbid conditions included type 2 diabetes mellitus, asthma, hypothyroidism, borderline hypertension, borderline diastolic dysfunction, and a fatty liver "

Exacerbation of hemochromatosis by ingestion of milk thistle

It depends on the specific product and its extraction method. Most products I have seen provide 175mg per dose and recommend 2 capsules a day. Milk thistle can be estrogenic, so I would not go above that dose and there are probably safer anti-cortisol remedies like progesterone, DHEA, aspirin, emodin, etc.

Maybe someone has experienced this same effect or can help to explain why this would be, but I'm taking a new milk thistle product that causes liver pain and discomfort.

Asides from the estrogenic effect, there is an anti-androgenic effect as well

Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclear localization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP.

Isosilybin A induces apoptosis in human prostate cancer cells via targeting Akt, NF-κB, and androgen receptor signaling.

Isosilybin B causes androgen receptor degradation in human prostate carcinoma cells via PI3K-Akt-Mdm2-mediated pathway.​

But maybe the negative effects some people experience are due to mycotoxins?

J Agric Food Chem. 2015 Jul 29;63(29):6633-43. doi: 10.1021/acs.jafc.5b02105. Epub 2015 Jul 21.
Mycotoxins in Plant-Based Dietary Supplements: Hidden Health Risk for Consumers.
Veprikova Z1, Zachariasova M1, Dzuman Z1, Zachariasova A1, Fenclova M1, Slavikova P1, Vaclavikova M1, Mastovska K2, Hengst D2, Hajslova J1.

Mycotoxin contamination of dietary supplements represents a possible risk for human health, especially in the case of products intended for people suffering from certain health conditions. The aim of this study was to assess the extent of this problem based on analyses of a wide set of herbal-based dietary supplements intended for various purposes: (i) treatment of liver diseases (milk thistle); (ii) reduction of menopause effects (red clover, flax seed, and soy); and (iii) preparations for general health support (green barley, nettle, goji berries, yucca, etc.) The analytical method including 57 mycotoxins was based on a QuEChERS-like (quick, easy, cheap, effective, rugged, safe) approach and ultrahigh performance liquid chromatography coupled with tandem mass spectrometry. The main mycotoxins determined were Fusarium trichothecenes, zearalenone and enniatins, and Alternaria mycotoxins. Co-occurrence of enniatins, HT-2/T-2 toxins, and Alternaria toxins was observed in many cases. The highest mycotoxin concentrations were found in milk thistle-based supplements (up to 37 mg/kg in the sum).​

 

[Mossy]

Asides from the estrogenic effect, there is an anti-androgenic effect as well

Silymarin inhibits function of the androgen receptor by reducing nuclear localization of the receptor in the human prostate cancer cell line LNCaP.

Isosilybin A induces apoptosis in human prostate cancer cells via targeting Akt, NF-κB, and androgen receptor signaling.

Isosilybin B causes androgen receptor degradation in human prostate carcinoma cells via PI3K-Akt-Mdm2-mediated pathway.​

But maybe the negative effects some people experience are due to mycotoxins?

J Agric Food Chem. 2015 Jul 29;63(29):6633-43. doi: 10.1021/acs.jafc.5b02105. Epub 2015 Jul 21.
Mycotoxins in Plant-Based Dietary Supplements: Hidden Health Risk for Consumers.
Veprikova Z1, Zachariasova M1, Dzuman Z1, Zachariasova A1, Fenclova M1, Slavikova P1, Vaclavikova M1, Mastovska K2, Hengst D2, Hajslova J1.

Mycotoxin contamination of dietary supplements represents a possible risk for human health, especially in the case of products intended for people suffering from certain health conditions. The aim of this study was to assess the extent of this problem based on analyses of a wide set of herbal-based dietary supplements intended for various purposes: (i) treatment of liver diseases (milk thistle); (ii) reduction of menopause effects (red clover, flax seed, and soy); and (iii) preparations for general health support (green barley, nettle, goji berries, yucca, etc.) The analytical method including 57 mycotoxins was based on a QuEChERS-like (quick, easy, cheap, effective, rugged, safe) approach and ultrahigh performance liquid chromatography coupled with tandem mass spectrometry. The main mycotoxins determined were Fusarium trichothecenes, zearalenone and enniatins, and Alternaria mycotoxins. Co-occurrence of enniatins, HT-2/T-2 toxins, and Alternaria toxins was observed in many cases. The highest mycotoxin concentrations were found in milk thistle-based supplements (up to 37 mg/kg in the sum).​

Thank you for such a thorough response. I’ll dig into this.

 

[Elize]

I have low iron and thyroid. Milk thistle mat me feel warm and clears my colon. Hiw will I jkno if it has an estrogenic effect?

Thanks

Elize

 

[danishispsychic]

Maybe someone has experienced this same effect or can help to explain why this would be, but I'm taking a new milk thistle product that causes liver pain and discomfort. My guess for this issue would be one of three reasons: 1) it's a poor quality product; 2) it's doing as it should and helping, though manifesting that help in a bit of temporary pain; or 3) it's the estrogenic effect, which is showing to not be beneficial to my liver.

For reference, I've taken milk thistle in the past and I recall it making me feel better, ultimately. Though, I don't recall this initial pain/discomfort.

I realize there are so many factors, but welcome any input. Thanks.

Just a thought- I saw a video of someone putting Milk Thistle on the skin over the liver and then using a Castor Oil pack over that. That might be an interesting way to use it. I have not tried it yet.

 

[Mossy]

Just a thought- I saw a video of someone putting Milk Thistle on the skin over the liver and then using a Castor Oil pack over that. That might be an interesting way to use it. I have not tried it yet.

That’s an idea, thank you. I have tried the castor oil pack on the liver, but not with milk thistle.

 

[aquaman]

Milk thistle is a stimulant for me and ruins my sleep. Feel extremely wired and anxious when I take it.

 

[Bart1]

I'm trying this protocol now. I will report back when I'm done.

 

[Ras]

Just a thought- I saw a video of someone putting Milk Thistle on the skin over the liver and then using a Castor Oil pack over that. That might be an interesting way to use it. I have not tried it yet.

According to the research I've read, topical castor oil - as used in castor oil packs - is not absorbed.

 

[Hoodlt]

Wondering if anyone has any more to add about milk thistle for Cushings. My 21 year old son shows many symptoms of Cushings. We are waiting for better insurance to kick in and get him tested. This summer he visited us in Europe (before we realized he may have Cushings but knew something was very wrong with him), he was having gall bladder issues and hardly able to eat. We went to a pharmacy and they recommended a German milk thistle product. It was absolutely amazing the difference it made in him very quickly. He got an appetite back, slept better and had no pain from eating. We bought him a 6 month supply until we could get home and get some insurance. Fast forward a few months and he felt really good and stopped taking them. His depression returned with a vengeance, he had gallbladder pain and lost his appetite and his sleep was awful. When we asked if he was taking the red pills....nope, he had stopped. Well a few days later with those in him, he is feeling much better. After reading the article on milk thistle to treat Cushings, we are going to stock pile the pills and really hope we can possibly cure him. The surgery for Cushings is horrible and often the tumor comes back. They have to enter in through the nose. This pill is actually a German pharmaceutical and seems very standardized. At this point with him becoming morbidly obese from he Cushings, we are not going to worry about the estrogenic effect though we will try to keep him on boiled mushrooms and grated carrots. If anyone has anything to add or help, I am all ears. This group is very helpful.