Milk, Puffy Nipples And Other Sides (male)

[beta pandemic]

I have been drinking 2 litres of whole milk with 300 grams sugar and 1-2 litres of freshly squeezed and strained orange juice as the base of my diet for just over 3 weeks now and enjoy it very much. milk and sugar is my favorite food and fresh squeezed orange juice is incredible. nothing you can buy can compare. Anyway. I had issues with milk ( major bloating and gas) at first but it took 2 weeks of 500 ml daily before 'intolerance' sumptoms disappeared completely which is amazing in and of itself.

A few things which make me question drinking of milk are that 3 days ago I noticed both my nipples are very puffy and my balls dont hang as low as they normally do. kinda looking like they have shrunk actually... also noticed quality of erections are decreasing. it takes longer for me to get hard and is very difficult to maintain erections. sex with my girlfriend has definitely not been great over the last week. SORRY for the TMI.

Also for people that say go to a doctor #1 99% of doctors are rubbish i have been through the medical system for other issues and they are of no help at best. #2 this is an embarassing topic which i prefer not to talk about in person to a stranger. #3 i am following ray peat dietary recommendations and this is a ray peat forum.

What are your experiences?
Should I switch from whole milk to fat free milk?
Should I drop milk completely?

I look forward to contributing to the forum. i have many positive and interesting experiences with diet and especially supplements that i believe many will find useful thank you.

 

[Tarmander]

Not many here will tell you to go to the doctor, you don't have to worry too much about that. Most people who follow the Ray Peat "guidelines," usually end up with symptoms like yours. If you search the forums, there are quite a few people who get "estrogen" or "stress" symptoms when switching to Peat. Couple things:

Were you drinking this much liquid before? That much liquid, all at once, is pretty stressful. I live in the desert, I would have issues with how much liquid you are drinking, and I sweat a lot.

Whole milk can definitely contribute, especially if you do not need the extra fat for hard labor or something.

I think you may have more success with gradually switching to what Ray talks about. You could start with cutting pufa from you diet, and then maybe drink a glass of OJ and milk, and see how you feel. Go slow.

 

[mujuro]

I agree with Tarmander. Start again and go slower. When you're beginning, IMO less is more. Just begin by cutting PUFA and getting more calcium.

I made the mistake of diving into the Peat deep end. I was having as much liquid as you and quite a lot of sugar. I felt absolutely terrible. Could NEVER get my temperature up. After 6 months of feeling generally lousy I started again with simple starches (white rice/white potato) as my main carbohydrates, with lamb/beef/EAAs/whey as my main protein sources. A bit of coffee, a bit of aspirin some days, 10-20mins in the sun, a little bit of fat (butter/CO) and salt on my potatoes/rice. My temperatures started going up and I could FEEL it. I regularly indulge in coke, OJ, milk. Never the quantities that you do but I really don't think most people can tolerate that much liquid.

 

[beta pandemic]

Yes I've become very ocd about keeping pufa as low as possible for about a year. from the age of about 5-18 i grew up on potatoes deep fried in vegetable oil and soda, chips,cakes,candies and chocolate bars. probably explains why im the only male in my family under 6 foot.

Alright I will cut both milk and oj consumption in half (seems more normal anyway) and up starch & low fat meat for a couple weeks. Since starting i've also been experiencing ice cold hands and my sodium consumption has been more than half.

thanks

 

[BibleBeliever]

Milk and Testosterone: The Effect of Dairy on T-Levels

The argument from this link is that modern dairy farming practices make milk estrogenic:

"Another study from Ganmaa et al. found out that when Mongolian kids switch their milk into the kind from US, their estrogen levels shoot up. This is likely caused by the difference in milk producing between the countries, in Mongolia cows are kept pregnant for much shorter duration during the lactation period."

I find it to be the case when drinking more than a cup, at least sensitivity in the chest area that doesn't feel normal.

 

[beta pandemic]

interesting. i will update my results in another week or two

thanks

 

[beta pandemic]

have noted some interesting things will update in another week with results just to make sure my observations are accurate for me personally

 

[Jayfish]

There is definitely a lot of estrogen in full fat milk. It goes down dramatically in low/fat free milk. A lot if dietary fat in general can have I'll effect on erection strength because it can restric blood flow.

 

[Morning Star]

Swap out the whole for skim, the estrogen is bound to the fat. I've been drinking a gallon of skim milk, half a liter of OJ and two cups of rice a day for about 3 months now and I've gotten absolutely shredded. Not so much the beach bod, more like an anatomy lesson. Kinda freaky looking to be honest. Down from 180 to 165.

 

[Elephanto]

Estrogen levels rose noticeably in men after drinking 500ml of skim milk at the same level as whole milk. It is a myth that the hormones are found in the fatty portion.

 

[Jayfish]

Estrogen levels rose noticeably in men after drinking 500ml of skim milk at the same level as whole milk. It is a myth that the hormones are found in the fatty portion.

Please quote from a source.

 

[EIRE24]

Swap out the whole for skim, the estrogen is bound to the fat. I've been drinking a gallon of skim milk, half a liter of OJ and two cups of rice a day for about 3 months now and I've gotten absolutely shredded. Not so much the beach bod, more like an anatomy lesson. Kinda freaky looking to be honest. Down from 180 to 165.

That's your whole diet for a day?

 

[Morning Star]

Yeah. I supplement vit E, B6, Mg, Zn, aspirin, coffee, creatine, tobacco, and methylene blue. One bowl of rice an hour after waking, one after training and one an hour before bed. I drink milk continuously throughout the day, and sip oj by the capful. 2 cups of Strong coffee, one at breakfast and one prior to workout. I adjust the amount of rice according to energy expenditure. I look absolutely frightening, visible seperation in every muscle group, veins in shoulders, pecs, lats, quads, lower abs. Bear in mind too that a decade ago I was over 300lbs at 5'8".

 

[superhuman]

Swap out the whole for skim, the estrogen is bound to the fat. I've been drinking a gallon of skim milk, half a liter of OJ and two cups of rice a day for about 3 months now and I've gotten absolutely shredded. Not so much the beach bod, more like an anatomy lesson. Kinda freaky looking to be honest. Down from 180 to 165.

Yeah. I supplement vit E, B6, Mg, Zn, aspirin, coffee, creatine, tobacco, and methylene blue. One bowl of rice an hour after waking, one after training and one an hour before bed. I drink milk continuously throughout the day, and sip oj by the capful. 2 cups of Strong coffee, one at breakfast and one prior to workout. I adjust the amount of rice according to energy expenditure. I look absolutely frightening, visible seperation in every muscle group, veins in shoulders, pecs, lats, quads, lower abs. Bear in mind too that a decade ago I was over 300lbs at 5'8".

Awesome brother. Do you have any pictures? no gay. Whats your daily calorie intake like? and how much activity are you doing?
Im doing the same as you btw

 

[Brian]

I think its likely that the estrogen in milk is only a problem if you are very low in DHT, progesterone and/or have sub-optimal liver function. Which is probably a lot of people who have been sedentary and stressed for a long time.

Probably best to get a strong baseline of hormonal and liver health first through regular strength training, if the simplicity of drinking a lot of milk is something you want to try.

 

[Elephanto]

Please quote from a source.

Did you quote from a source when claiming that estrogen is contained in the fatty portion ? Unlike you I did read this in a study instead of internet rumors, but I can't find it right now as this was months ago, there was even a graph/illustration showing the levels raising at the same level in skim milk. I'll make sure to post it if I stumble upon it again.

 

[Morning Star]

Sorry, I don't have any pics to upload at the moment, I could get some in a few days if your interested. Activity level is very high, but not extreme. The secret to shreddiness i suppose, is that I forgo all mechanized transportation. My typically day consists of 2 mile bike ride to the gym, 1 and a half hour training session, bike back home, then bike three miles to work, where I am walking, lifting, bending, stooping and carrying for about six hours, then bike back home again. My training is very, very intense however. Lots of grunting, groaning, grimacing, shrieking, wailing, moaning, cursing, etc. Definitely not "healthy" to subject the body to such rigors, the flesh is a pleasure seeking, comfort craving entity. But I'm not training to get "fit" or healthy, I desire a visible manifestation of my supremacy. Most gym-goers are identical to the typically church goers, they think their mere presence in the pews, the completion of the prescribed rituals is synonymous with holiness. But God hears not the prayers of these superficially pious.

 

[superhuman]

@Morning Star hehe get you. What do you think then that was the key to you getting shredded and loosing so much fat? lowering fat intake and also lowering calorie intake? anything else you have experienced in terms of food and supplements that made the biggest difference?

 

[EIRE24]

@Morning Star hehe get you. What do you think then that was the key to you getting shredded and loosing so much fat? lowering fat intake and also lowering calorie intake? anything else you have experienced in terms of food and supplements that made the biggest difference?

He basically told you, it's his activity level. I've seen first hand how fast you can lose weight with the whole low fat thing but I don't think it's healthy to run this type of diet year round. I would do cycles of it.

At the end of the day it is all about calories in and calories out. If you want to get lean increase your activity level and try low fat making sure to eat plenty of carbs and protein.

Morning stars calories look extremely low to me and compared with the activity it's no wonder he lost so much weight.

 

[beta pandemic]

cool insight thanks.

I think daily high dose coffee/caffeine consumption + high protein diet from animal sources + vitamin supplementation (b complex including phosphatidyl choline and the fat soluble vitamins) - overtime will cure sensitivity to exogenous estrogens by restoring liver function.