Milk: pro-dopamine or pro-serotonin?

[Dr. B]

calcium prevents all forms of iron to be absorbed
coffee blocks non heme iron and seems to deplete stores too, aspirin depletes iron stores
even with separated meals, a high calcium intake will directly lowers stomach acid by buffering the acidity (and if it’s milk there is so much liquid that it dilutes it as ****) hence low iron absorption as you need high acidity to absorb minerals (mostly zinc and iron)
calcium lowers histamine too so it lowers stomach acid indirectly too

milk, meat and shellfish are all great, but mixing them will be a lottery game

interesting.
how does vitamin A and phosphate play there? phosphate increases stomach acid right?
how does aspirin deplete iron? interesting.
so milk could deplete zinc too? at least it thankfully has some zinc, like 1mg or more per cup.
does phosphorus and vitamin A increase histamine?
interesing stuff mate. so calcium should reduce allergies massively then too?

 

[Jennifer]

Uht or pasteurized Milk didnt work for you?

Out of caution, I did pasteurized when reintroducing milk after clearing the SIBO because it had less bacteria—the bacteria in raw milk used to add to the overgrowth and trigger symptoms. The only reason I drink raw milk now instead of UHT and pasteurized is because I know this particular farm’s farming practices and the taste of their milk is incredible. Technically, I drink it pasteurized when I make hot chocolate and hot white chocolate.

When you cleared your sibo, did you do It only with diet changes without taking antibiótics or other meds?

The only med I was on when I cleared the SIBO was NDT (WP Thyroid), which I had already been taking prior to my doctor discovering the misdiagnosis and prescribing the courses of Rifaximin. The SIBO only cleared once I made the dietary changes.

 

[Dr. B]

Out of caution, I did pasteurized when reintroducing milk after clearing the SIBO because it had less bacteria—the bacteria in raw milk used to add to the overgrowth and trigger symptoms. The only reason I drink raw milk now instead of UHT and pasteurized is because I know this particular farm’s farming practices and the taste of their milk is incredible. Technically, I drink it pasteurized when I make hot chocolate and hot white chocolate.



The only med I was on when I cleared the SIBO was NDT (WP Thyroid), which I had already been taking prior to my doctor discovering the misdiagnosis and prescribing the courses of Rifaximin. The SIBO only cleared once I made the dietary changes.

which symptoms did you get from the raw milk back then? it's strange I probably have issues with bacteria, but most milks dont bother me, not even cheap walmart milk. even all the raw milks ive tried caused no issues except one raw milk out of the 5 different farms i tried. it caused pretty odd symptoms like itchy scalp, and breast tenderness. basically estrogenic symptoms i never feel from anything, even from eating pufa. they claimed they were organic, 100% grass fed, ran by an amish farmer, 100% A2, hormone antibiotic free etc, vaccine free, but something doesnt seem right. even cheap, non organic milk never caused effects like that, and its probably gmo soy and corn fed.

 

[equipoise]

Milk is amazing in my experience as long as I don't mix it with other food. So milk+fruit is a no no, reliably gives me endotoxin symptoms.
But milk+honey is amazing, clean energy so I usually just have milk in the earlier part of my day (with some honey and salt) so it absorbs perfectly.
Later I'll eat some starch and meat away from milk.

Milk+starch is also no no for me, even a glass will ***88 digestion for me. Basically I either drink milk alone away from meals or no milk at all.
Interesting enough I can eat whole tub of Haagen Dasz with starch/meat without suffering any gastrointestinal discomfort. YMMV obviously.

Milk is definitely the king of metabolism, and really the only "superfood". Massive benefits from 2L of semi skimmed milk per day (store bought, pasteurized-homogenized, I don't care for raw milk) in terms of seasonal pollen allergy (non existatnt now) faster metabolism, more anabolic action, leaning out, teeth, bowels.

 

[Dr. B]

Milk is amazing in my experience as long as I don't mix it with other food. So milk+fruit is a no no, reliably gives me endotoxin symptoms.
But milk+honey is amazing, clean energy so I usually just have milk in the earlier part of my day (with some honey and salt) so it absorbs perfectly.
Later I'll eat some starch and meat away from milk.

Milk+starch is also no no for me, even a glass will ***88 digestion for me. Basically I either drink milk alone away from meals or no milk at all.
Interesting enough I can eat whole tub of Haagen Dasz with starch/meat without suffering any gastrointestinal discomfort. YMMV obviously.

Milk is definitely the king of metabolism, and really the only "superfood". Massive benefits from 2L of semi skimmed milk per day (store bought, pasteurized-homogenized, I don't care for raw milk) in terms of seasonal pollen allergy (non existatnt now) faster metabolism, more anabolic action, leaning out, teeth, bowels.

why separate it? do you think some of these halal/kosher things of keeping meat separate from milk, not eating shellfish, not having blood, have benefits? its interesting how it turns out many of those religious restrictions from long ago, have benefits. im not sure on the shellfish part.

how do you have the salt, mixed in the milk and honey or by itself?

jenis is another good ice cream brand, as well as sometimes coolhaus and mcconells.

did milk reduce your allergies, due to an anti histamine effect?
which brand are you using, does it have added vitamins, is it A2 milk...

 

[equipoise]

why separate it? do you think some of these halal/kosher things of keeping meat separate from milk, not eating shellfish, not having blood, have benefits? its interesting how it turns out many of those religious restrictions from long ago, have benefits. im not sure on the shellfish part.

how do you have the salt, mixed in the milk and honey or by itself?

jenis is another good ice cream brand, as well as sometimes coolhaus and mcconells.

did milk reduce your allergies, due to an anti histamine effect?
which brand are you using, does it have added vitamins, is it A2 milk...

as I said, seperation prevents endotoxin load. I think it may just very well be mixing liquid with solid food. I keep any drinks away from food for optimal digestion and chew my food really hard and eat semi slowly.

I put half a tea spoon in milk, mix together, it mixes nice obviously and I just have a spoonful of honey with it, striaght from the jar. I don't bother mixing it because honey is such a PITA to mix.

Oh mate, I wish we had anything other than Haagen Dasz available here, it's the only thing available that has good ingredients. But I still only buy it when on sale (every two months) and keep it in fridge.

I'm positive chronic consumption of milk annihilated my allergies. Plus just generally taking care of my body (ample sunshine, sleep, protein, carbohydrates, sex, art, relationships with people).

It's standard milk, we don't have A2 milk here. I'd drink goat if I could, but it's full fat, and I cannae be arsed to skim it meself so it is what it is. Works just fine.
It's the cheapest brand of milk I can buy, a gallon of it is $2.5, so very affordable.

I'm sure many of the halal/kosher things do work, in certain scenarios, and are valuable to incorporate in your daily life.

 

[ursidae]

interesting.
how does vitamin A and phosphate play there? phosphate increases stomach acid right?
how does aspirin deplete iron? interesting.
so milk could deplete zinc too? at least it thankfully has some zinc, like 1mg or more per cup.
does phosphorus and vitamin A increase histamine?
interesing stuff mate. so calcium should reduce allergies massively then too?

Six questions dude

 

[Hans]

calcium prevents all forms of iron to be absorbed
coffee blocks non heme iron and seems to deplete stores too, aspirin depletes iron stores
even with separated meals, a high calcium intake will directly lowers stomach acid by buffering the acidity (and if it’s milk there is so much liquid that it dilutes it as ****) hence low iron absorption as you need high acidity to absorb minerals (mostly zinc and iron)
calcium lowers histamine too so it lowers stomach acid indirectly too

milk, meat and shellfish are all great, but mixing them will be a lottery game

Highly doubtful.

Calcium from milk or calcium-fortified foods does not inhibit nonheme-iron absorption from a whole diet consumed over a 4-d period - PubMed

Consumption of a glass of milk with the 3 main meals or of an equivalent amount of calcium from fortified foods does not decrease nonheme-iron absorption from a 4-d diet.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Consumption of a glass of milk with the 3 main meals or of an equivalent amount of calcium from fortified foods does not decrease nonheme-iron absorption from a 4-d diet."

Effect of milk and fermented milk on iron absorption in ileostomy subjects - PubMed

This study was undertaken to determine whether milk with its high calcium content adversely affects the absorption of nonheme iron from the diet as greatly as single-meal studies indicate. Nine ileostomy subjects ate a low-fiber, low-phytate diet for 8 consecutive weeks. During the first and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

During the last 2 d in each of the four periods, apparent iron absorption (balance) from a test diet together with that period's beverage was measured and the plasma ferritin concentration was determined. There was no decrease in apparent iron absorption during the milk diet periods.

The effect of calcium consumption on iron absorption and iron status - PubMed

Recent increases in recommended calcium intakes recognize the important role of calcium in skeletal health, but many Americans, especially women, consume far less than recommended amounts. A potential drawback to encouraging increased calcium intake is suggested by the extensive literature...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In general, studies of whole diets and studies conducted over several weeks tend to show no effect of increased calcium intake on iron absorption. In addition, experimental studies of calcium and iron status measures such as serum ferritin show no long-term effect of calcium supplementation on iron status. Prevention and treatment of iron deficiency should emphasize adequate consumption of iron-rich foods and, when indicated, the use of iron supplements. Recommended calcium intakes are important for skeletal health and do not appear to increase the risk for iron deficiency in healthy people.

Furthermore, coffee only inhibits non-heme iron absorption, so if people eat enough red meat, they should be fine.
Lastly, aspirin doesn't cause anema. If it causes chronic bleeding in someone, it might lower iron stores over many years.

Aspirin prophylaxis and the prevalence of anaemia

Abstract. Background: anaemia and vascular disease are both common amongst the elderly and frequently co-exist. Whilst a consensus exists concerning the be

academic.oup.com

chronic low-dose aspirin use amongst an elderly cohort was associated with increased likelihood of normal haemoglobin.

A lot of the strongmen, wrestlers, powerlifters, bodybuilders, etc., of old drank lots of milk. And you need high dopamine to remain motivated to train like that long term. Chances are they were surely not iron deficient.

 

[Sefton10]

I put half a tea spoon in milk, mix together, it mixes nice obviously and I just have a spoonful of honey with it, striaght from the jar. I don't bother mixing it because honey is such a PITA to mix.

Try mixing the honey with an egg yolk first, then add the milk. Metabolic rocket fuel.

 

[PaRa]

Highly doubtful.

Calcium from milk or calcium-fortified foods does not inhibit nonheme-iron absorption from a whole diet consumed over a 4-d period - PubMed

Consumption of a glass of milk with the 3 main meals or of an equivalent amount of calcium from fortified foods does not decrease nonheme-iron absorption from a 4-d diet.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Consumption of a glass of milk with the 3 main meals or of an equivalent amount of calcium from fortified foods does not decrease nonheme-iron absorption from a 4-d diet."

Effect of milk and fermented milk on iron absorption in ileostomy subjects - PubMed

This study was undertaken to determine whether milk with its high calcium content adversely affects the absorption of nonheme iron from the diet as greatly as single-meal studies indicate. Nine ileostomy subjects ate a low-fiber, low-phytate diet for 8 consecutive weeks. During the first and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

During the last 2 d in each of the four periods, apparent iron absorption (balance) from a test diet together with that period's beverage was measured and the plasma ferritin concentration was determined. There was no decrease in apparent iron absorption during the milk diet periods.

The effect of calcium consumption on iron absorption and iron status - PubMed

Recent increases in recommended calcium intakes recognize the important role of calcium in skeletal health, but many Americans, especially women, consume far less than recommended amounts. A potential drawback to encouraging increased calcium intake is suggested by the extensive literature...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In general, studies of whole diets and studies conducted over several weeks tend to show no effect of increased calcium intake on iron absorption. In addition, experimental studies of calcium and iron status measures such as serum ferritin show no long-term effect of calcium supplementation on iron status. Prevention and treatment of iron deficiency should emphasize adequate consumption of iron-rich foods and, when indicated, the use of iron supplements. Recommended calcium intakes are important for skeletal health and do not appear to increase the risk for iron deficiency in healthy people.

Furthermore, coffee only inhibits non-heme iron absorption, so if people eat enough red meat, they should be fine.
Lastly, aspirin doesn't cause anema. If it causes chronic bleeding in someone, it might lower iron stores over many years.

Aspirin prophylaxis and the prevalence of anaemia

Abstract. Background: anaemia and vascular disease are both common amongst the elderly and frequently co-exist. Whilst a consensus exists concerning the be

academic.oup.com

chronic low-dose aspirin use amongst an elderly cohort was associated with increased likelihood of normal haemoglobin.

A lot of the strongmen, wrestlers, powerlifters, bodybuilders, etc., of old drank lots of milk. And you need high dopamine to remain motivated to train like that long term. Chances are they were surely not iron deficient.

Thanks Hans
however I couldn’t raise my iron lvl without avoiding dairies and copper foods, no coffee, beef every meals and raising my histamine pool
(took at least 1 month doing like this to feel better)

ofc aspirin is soft

as for the athlete, gear helps for their dopamine :)

 

[DaikonRadish]

I have tried a few store bought milks. Most of them taste and smell like the inside of a pill bottle, very plastic and chemical. Tried some Lucerne the other day and it tasted like the inside of a pill bottle.

 

[Hans]

Thanks Hans
however I couldn’t raise my iron lvl without avoiding dairies and copper foods, no coffee, beef every meals and raising my histamine pool
(took at least 1 month doing like this to feel better)

ofc aspirin is soft

as for the athlete, gear helps for their dopamine :)

Were you able to consume spleen? The absolute best source of iron.
Are you back on milk now that you fixed your iron stores?

In terms of the athletes, no I'm referring to those guys pre-roids, like early 1900s and even before.

 

[Jennifer]

which symptoms did you get from the raw milk back then? it's strange I probably have issues with bacteria, but most milks dont bother me, not even cheap walmart milk. even all the raw milks ive tried caused no issues except one raw milk out of the 5 different farms i tried. it caused pretty odd symptoms like itchy scalp, and breast tenderness. basically estrogenic symptoms i never feel from anything, even from eating pufa. they claimed they were organic, 100% grass fed, ran by an amish farmer, 100% A2, hormone antibiotic free etc, vaccine free, but something doesnt seem right. even cheap, non organic milk never caused effects like that, and its probably gmo soy and corn fed.

The most noticeable symptoms were a bleeding rash all over my face, abdominal pain/burning, bloating and a white coated tongue. UHT milk caused the least symptoms. Since 100% grass-fed can include a variety of forage such as different types of grasses, clover, alfalfa, forbs, herbs and broadleaf pasture plants, perhaps you were sensitive to something the Amish cows ate on pasture? Or maybe what the farmer used to clean the udders with prior to milking them? Even their particular bacteria may not have sat right with you.

 

[Dave Clark]

Low stomach acid might be good for absorbing less iron, but what other nutrients are not being absorbed ? It is common to have lower stomach acid as we age, and I am not sure if thyroid completely fixes that issue. I wouldn't use low stomach acid as a means to lower iron, there are other ways to bind it without compromising digestion.

 

[PaRa]

Were you able to consume spleen? The absolute best source of iron.
Are you back on milk now that you fixed your iron stores?

In terms of the athletes, no I'm referring to those guys pre-roids, like early 1900s and even before.

no spleen, no access to and all organs meats tastes very bad to me, I just love steak, no heart, liver, kidneys etc, all tasted disgusting to me
With a 3meals schedule I have 2 meats meal and 1 dairy meal

oh ok, the good old time

 

[Dr. B]

Were you able to consume spleen? The absolute best source of iron.
Are you back on milk now that you fixed your iron stores?

In terms of the athletes, no I'm referring to those guys pre-roids, like early 1900s and even before.

the ancestral supplements line offers liver which iirc is 2 or 3mg iron per ounce. they have spleen which is 12mg per ounce. they recently released a blood product which is even much more. i think even a single capsule of their blood product is like 8mg iron, its freeze dried bovine blood from new zealand cows. im not sure if theres other toxins in the blood. but that 8mg amount is basically like an iron supplement! I asked Ray about drinking blood, he said the Maasai supplement blood and do well cuz they have an iron deficient milk diet.

as I said, seperation prevents endotoxin load. I think it may just very well be mixing liquid with solid food. I keep any drinks away from food for optimal digestion and chew my food really hard and eat semi slowly.

I put half a tea spoon in milk, mix together, it mixes nice obviously and I just have a spoonful of honey with it, striaght from the jar. I don't bother mixing it because honey is such a PITA to mix.

Oh mate, I wish we had anything other than Haagen Dasz available here, it's the only thing available that has good ingredients. But I still only buy it when on sale (every two months) and keep it in fridge.

I'm positive chronic consumption of milk annihilated my allergies. Plus just generally taking care of my body (ample sunshine, sleep, protein, carbohydrates, sex, art, relationships with people).

It's standard milk, we don't have A2 milk here. I'd drink goat if I could, but it's full fat, and I cannae be arsed to skim it meself so it is what it is. Works just fine.
It's the cheapest brand of milk I can buy, a gallon of it is $2.5, so very affordable.

I'm sure many of the halal/kosher things do work, in certain scenarios, and are valuable to incorporate in your daily life.

mate someone posted on here about milk lowering stomach acid. i wonder if that is true and explains your endotoxin stuff. if it slows stomach acid, that would automatically increase endotoxin, which means probably any fibrous item, starchy item, possibly even meat would cause issues if taken with milk. after all babies are just drinking milk not having food alongside it right. your experience with honey being fine is probably because that is anti endotoxin in itself, and is liquid sugar, instead of a fibrous fruit. do you have issues with orange juice close to milk?
its probably the calcium and stomach acid lowering effect of milk. probably, I'd imagine if you had OJ with those items you may do better since its acidic? OJ seems to go well alongside meats, starches, solid foods?
you in europe? theres got to be other brands, i imagine theres all kinds of brands there we dont have here. like local made in europe brands.

regarding that, they prohibit eating pork, which makes sense due to pufa often in it. but what about shellfish? are there risks to eating shellfish? it's one of the major allergenic ingredients alongside eggs, dairy, gluten, tree nuts, corn, soy, etc. i suspect eggs/milk are on there due to being fed with other toxic allergenic ingredients so grass fed milks should be better. i wonder if shellfish, maybe they cause issues due to the pollution in the oceans. or is it something with shellfish themselves that causes the trouble for some.

 

[Jam]

If you're all out of hot air balloons, try chasing a whole orange with a glass or two of milk. The bloating this causes, and trust me I just tried, in the name of science, is unreal.

 

[Dr. B]

Highly doubtful.

Calcium from milk or calcium-fortified foods does not inhibit nonheme-iron absorption from a whole diet consumed over a 4-d period - PubMed

Consumption of a glass of milk with the 3 main meals or of an equivalent amount of calcium from fortified foods does not decrease nonheme-iron absorption from a 4-d diet.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Consumption of a glass of milk with the 3 main meals or of an equivalent amount of calcium from fortified foods does not decrease nonheme-iron absorption from a 4-d diet."

Effect of milk and fermented milk on iron absorption in ileostomy subjects - PubMed

This study was undertaken to determine whether milk with its high calcium content adversely affects the absorption of nonheme iron from the diet as greatly as single-meal studies indicate. Nine ileostomy subjects ate a low-fiber, low-phytate diet for 8 consecutive weeks. During the first and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

During the last 2 d in each of the four periods, apparent iron absorption (balance) from a test diet together with that period's beverage was measured and the plasma ferritin concentration was determined. There was no decrease in apparent iron absorption during the milk diet periods.

The effect of calcium consumption on iron absorption and iron status - PubMed

Recent increases in recommended calcium intakes recognize the important role of calcium in skeletal health, but many Americans, especially women, consume far less than recommended amounts. A potential drawback to encouraging increased calcium intake is suggested by the extensive literature...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In general, studies of whole diets and studies conducted over several weeks tend to show no effect of increased calcium intake on iron absorption. In addition, experimental studies of calcium and iron status measures such as serum ferritin show no long-term effect of calcium supplementation on iron status. Prevention and treatment of iron deficiency should emphasize adequate consumption of iron-rich foods and, when indicated, the use of iron supplements. Recommended calcium intakes are important for skeletal health and do not appear to increase the risk for iron deficiency in healthy people.

Furthermore, coffee only inhibits non-heme iron absorption, so if people eat enough red meat, they should be fine.
Lastly, aspirin doesn't cause anema. If it causes chronic bleeding in someone, it might lower iron stores over many years.

Aspirin prophylaxis and the prevalence of anaemia

Abstract. Background: anaemia and vascular disease are both common amongst the elderly and frequently co-exist. Whilst a consensus exists concerning the be

academic.oup.com

chronic low-dose aspirin use amongst an elderly cohort was associated with increased likelihood of normal haemoglobin.

A lot of the strongmen, wrestlers, powerlifters, bodybuilders, etc., of old drank lots of milk. And you need high dopamine to remain motivated to train like that long term. Chances are they were surely not iron deficient.

interesting, so people who are passionate about training, studying any subject or sport likely have lots of dopamine? some of these people are very ocd, are there other hormones like serotonin which can also cause motivation when it comes to training, studying, gaming etc...

If you're all out of hot air balloons, try chasing a whole orange with a glass or two of milk. The bloating this causes, and trust me I just tried, in the name of science, is unreal.

is it the fiber in the orange, or why does it cause so much bloating? acidic foods dont go well with milk? i dont notice much if i have OJ soon before or after milk. but thanks for trying for us mate.

Low stomach acid might be good for absorbing less iron, but what other nutrients are not being absorbed ? It is common to have lower stomach acid as we age, and I am not sure if thyroid completely fixes that issue. I wouldn't use low stomach acid as a means to lower iron, there are other ways to bind it without compromising digestion.

does milk lower stomach acid due to calcium? poor thyroid function, high cortisol also causes low stomach acid apparently. zinc, copper, probably many vitamins and minerals.

I have tried a few store bought milks. Most of them taste and smell like the inside of a pill bottle, very plastic and chemical. Tried some Lucerne the other day and it tasted like the inside of a pill bottle.

there should be some good ones, have you looked at whole foods stores? Im not sure if Lucerne is grass fed, organic, low temp pasteurized, non homogenized. costcos milk tastes good, but it's probably from gmo corn and soy fed cows. taste seems to have a lot to do with the breed of cow and any vitamins/added ingredients in the milk. ultra pasteurizing seems to ruin the flavor as well.

 

[Jam]

is it the fiber in the orange, or why does it cause so much bloating? acidic foods dont go well with milk? i dont notice much if i have OJ soon before or after milk. but thanks for trying for us mate.

A regular breakfast of mine includes starting off with a whole orange, then a soft-boiled egg or two, some Greek yogurt with honey, bitter orange marmalade, and a couple glasses of milk, finishing with an espresso or two, and this has never caused bloating. Yesterday's orange + milk experiment, however, was done as a snack on an empty stomach. Not sure what caused it, really. I also had an espresso after the milk. Is the milk slowing down the digestion of the fiber enough to where it ferments excessively in the intestine? Why doesn't this happen if the same combination is eaten together with other food?

 

[PaRa]

interesting, so people who are passionate about training, studying any subject or sport likely have lots of dopamine? some of these people are very ocd, are there other hormones like serotonin which can also cause motivation when it comes to training, studying, gaming etc...

histamine leads to high motivation drive and competitivity and libido

serotonin makes you a green plant, histamine is anti serotonin anti cortisol and anti adrenaline