Milk Issues.

[lindsay]

Recently I started paying more close attention to how I react to certain foods and I've noticed milk is giving me a bit of trouble. I buy local raw milk - it's grass fed (at least in the good months). If I drink it without cooking it, I get migraines, so I need to cook it. I usually skim as much cream off the top, but probably only manage to get it down to 2%.
The biggest issue I'm noticing with milk the more I drink, however, is "estrogen-dominance" like symptoms: bloating, muscle pain/swelling, histamine reactions/migraines, etc. (feels kind of like PMS symptoms) I'm wondering if it has to do with the milk cream and estrogen content? I recall in Peat's book (from PMS to Menopause) that a high calcium diet in the presence of excess estrogen can be dangerous (because of the calcium being deposited in the soft bone tissue).
I started my cynoplus supplementation when I was on vacation and noticed immediate relief from things like fluid retention, and I even lost a bit of weight after almost two weeks. the funny thing is, when I came back home and started drinking milk, all the weight came back on. If I stop drinking milk, the weight falls off. So, I'm a little confused. It's not the liquids - if I don't drink milk, I drink other liquids throughout the day without as much trouble. Any ideas why this could be? I know Peat recommends lots of calcium for a reason, but is it possible that it's hard for people in a position of low thyroid function because of hormone imbalances?
Anyhow, I'm going to try a calcium supplement and see if the lack of liquids and hormones makes a difference. If anyone has found a good milk here in the US that they would like to recommend, I'm all ears.

Edit: I haven't really tried any other milks yet, as the raw milk I get is the best tasting and most cost efficient.

 

[fyo]

Just wondering, where do you live that raw milk is most cost efficient? For me, raw milk is like 5x pasteurized milk.

 

[Satan]

How do you do with cheese from animal rennet? I get similar symptoms from milk but virtually no problems from cheese.

 

[lindsay]

fyo: I live in Connecticut. There is a farm a few miles from where I live with delicious raw milk for $6 per gallon. organic or grass-fed milk at the grocery store is $4 to $5 per half gallon.

Satan: I don't seem to have much trouble with cheese, but I don't eat as much of it, since I'm trying to avoid all the fat. what kind of cheese do you eat that works for you?

I just can't tell if it's the milk, or the calcium, or the milk fat that's the issue for me.

 

[Satan]

I eat parmigiano reggiano, and quite a bit of it each day. It's the only animal rennet cheese I can find.

 

[lindsay]

I love parmigiano reggiano! I have some at home now and eat it by the spoonful when I need salt. I think I can easily replace one or two servings of dairy per day with that!

 

[j.]

I just can't tell if it's the milk, or the calcium, or the milk fat that's the issue for me.

Could you stop drinking milk for a week and eat cheese instead? 275 grams of cheese have the same amount of calcium as 1 quart of milk.

Make sure to drink other liquids to avoid constipation.

Another possibility is adding something like 500 mg of calcium carbonate to OJ twice a day. But don't consume too much of the calcium carbonate, it could give you calcium alkali syndrome. It's a good idea to read about it first before using calcium carbonate.

 

[Satan]

I love parmigiano reggiano! I have some at home now and eat it by the spoonful when I need salt. I think I can easily replace one or two servings of dairy per day with that!

I get blocks of it and cut pieces off. Hard cheeses are great because they're more concentrated. 1oz is nutritionally equivalent to about a cup and a half of milk.

http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cus ... antity=2.0

 

[jb4566]

Another possibility is adding something like 500 mg of calcium carbonate to OJ twice a day. But don't consume too much of the calcium carbonate, it could give you calcium alkali syndrome. It's a good idea to read about it first before using calcium carbonate.

Have you experienced this? What are the symptoms like? I have read about it, but most the material I have read is vague in regards to the symptoms.

 

[j.]

Have you experienced this? What are the symptoms like? I have read about it, but most the material I have read is vague in regards to the symptoms.

Tons of symptoms. Plan to make a thread (some day). Just to mention one symptom. Felt like I wanted to eat something salty. Did so, a big but not unusual amount. A few minutes later was in the ER with a 170 blood pressure. My body couldn't process the electrolytes as usual. If you read the literature, an usual sign is high urine PH. When this happened, my urine was extremely clear and odorless, even in the morning, the smell wasn't repelling.

 

[lindsay]

j. I was planning to start supplementing calcium carbonate this week - I ordered one recommended by Bruno and Dan Wich..... both of them have had good experiences with it. However, I think it's suppose to be eaten with a meal to balance it all.

I just bought some cheese. I'm not opposed to cheese, but I don't want to eat too much of it (maybe an ounce or two per day). I have to be careful with fats because I don't have a gallbladder and my body cannot always process them easily.

I just bought some pecorino romano - it's Italian imported and just says rennet in the ingredients (as opposed to vegetable rennet). Anyhow, I know I need to get my calcium - I haven't really eaten much dairy in the past 8 years (when I was a vegetarian). I'd like to get more than 1000 mg. but if I can't right now, I guess I'll have to deal. I just bought a different milk - local farm, 1% pasteurized. Will see how it goes.......

 

[lindsay]

edit: why does 1% pasteurized milk have to taste so terrible?

 

[Lilly]

it really does taste bad.
I also often have troubles with milk, but they come and go, my reaction to it is not always the same. And when I do get an allergic reaction it's similar to yours Lindsay.

 

[lindsay]

Yeah - I'd rather drink less of my raw milk (and cook it) and get calcium from other places than drink gross tasting milk :?

Lilly - that's why I was wondering about if the estrogen in milk might have anything to do with it because it seems like females seem to have more trouble than males when it comes to milk. At least, when I look at the forum comments in relation to weight gain and not feeling better, it seems to be women who drink a lot of milk. I understand the reasoning for drinking milk, but then, maybe it's not good to drink too much if estrogen is high? I don't think it has to do with magnesium either - I never crave foods with magnesium and even when I have them, it doesn't seem to do much. And it's not the liquids either. Since I started taking thyroid, I seem to need more liquid and juice doesn't make me swell like milk does.

 

[tomisonbottom]

Recently I started paying more close attention to how I react to certain foods and I've noticed milk is giving me a bit of trouble. I buy local raw milk - it's grass fed (at least in the good months). If I drink it without cooking it, I get migraines, so I need to cook it. I usually skim as much cream off the top, but probably only manage to get it down to 2%.
The biggest issue I'm noticing with milk the more I drink, however, is "estrogen-dominance" like symptoms: bloating, muscle pain/swelling, histamine reactions/migraines, etc. (feels kind of like PMS symptoms) I'm wondering if it has to do with the milk cream and estrogen content? I recall in Peat's book (from PMS to Menopause) that a high calcium diet in the presence of excess estrogen can be dangerous (because of the calcium being deposited in the soft bone tissue).
I started my cynoplus supplementation when I was on vacation and noticed immediate relief from things like fluid retention, and I even lost a bit of weight after almost two weeks. the funny thing is, when I came back home and started drinking milk, all the weight came back on. If I stop drinking milk, the weight falls off. So, I'm a little confused. It's not the liquids - if I don't drink milk, I drink other liquids throughout the day without as much trouble. Any ideas why this could be? I know Peat recommends lots of calcium for a reason, but is it possible that it's hard for people in a position of low thyroid function because of hormone imbalances?
Anyhow, I'm going to try a calcium supplement and see if the lack of liquids and hormones makes a difference. If anyone has found a good milk here in the US that they would like to recommend, I'm all ears.

Edit: I haven't really tried any other milks yet, as the raw milk I get is the best tasting and most cost efficient.

Ray Peat has said that some people have issues with the bacteria present in raw milk, so perhaps that's your issue.
He didn't seem to think it's extremely important to try and drink raw but just said: "it's probably a bit better" [than pastueurized].
I was just listening to one of the audio interviews when someone asked him about raw milk.

 

[lindsay]

Yeah - I've listened to his milk interview a few times. I know the raw milk is giving me migraines (if I cook/heat the milk, it's okay). But it tastes so good and after drinking raw milk, you don't want to go back to the pasteurized low fat stuff I can buy pasteurized at the farm, but they only carry whole milk.

 

[natedawggh]

If it is causing estrogens dominance or the like, have you tried taking an antihistamine with milk consumption? There's an article where he talks about antihistamine also being antiestrogens and i take an antihistamine once a day. Also, there are enzymes you could try to help digest the milk or the fat. If pasteurizing the milk is really helping, does store bought pasteurized milk not bother you? In that case you could have an allergy to a bacteria or lactic acid and antihistamine would help. Also curious, why do you skim the fat? If it's grass fed organic the fat would be a good thing to be having and might work a bit like coconut oil.

 

[lindsay]

If it is causing estrogens dominance or the like, have you tried taking an antihistamine with milk consumption? There's an article where he talks about antihistamine also being antiestrogens and i take an antihistamine once a day. Also, there are enzymes you could try to help digest the milk or the fat. If pasteurizing the milk is really helping, does store bought pasteurized milk not bother you? In that case you could have an allergy to a bacteria or lactic acid and antihistamine would help. Also curious, why do you skim the fat? If it's grass fed organic the fat would be a good thing to be having and might work a bit like coconut oil.

I usually take a loratadine tablet daily (when I remember), as well as progesterone, so I'm not really sure what else I can do. I'm thinking of switching back to goat's milk for a bit to see if that helps, but it's a lot more expensive, so I still cannot drink so much. Regarding the fat, I had my gallbladder removed 8 years ago, so I have to be careful with how much fat I consume. Whole milk fat is not like coconut oil (which doesn't require bile acids to digest) - I think my body just stores it as fat, so I am trying to cut down on how much milk and dairy fat I consume. I believe they are LCT's.

 

[natedawggh]

Oh that complicates things! You know what, it just sounds like you're having difficulty digesting it and the proteins and fat travel out of your stomach not fully digested. Cooking helps break down food. Try swallowing some gelatin before you drink your milk, because the presence of glycine in the gelatin increases the level of hydrochloride acid (it's the only amino acid to do this). Also, if that doesn't work and you're taking milk for the protein and calcium, try a fat free or low fat cottage cheese (daisy brand has NO additives and it's so good--additives like gums and carrageenan are really toxic) because it has a lot more protein than milk and a whole lot less liquid.