Milk is the most non-peaty peat food ever

[Ben.]

"ment"? sheeeesh.

uhhh yeah theres a "a" missing ... its "meant". Fingers were to fast.

 

[FoodForeal]

Milk's telos is to be consumed by the baby of the mother that produced the milk to make it grow from a newborn into a juvenile or even adult. It has all nutrients and energy necessary for the baby to grow and live in the world. Fruit's telos is to make the being that consumes it as healthy and high energy as possible to spread the seed eaten with the fruit. Honey's telos is to be consumed and thereby energize/sustain the bees that make it.

Just because milk is intended for the baby of the mother that produced the milk or honey is intended for the bees that make it doesn't mean that other things cannot have all the nutrients and energy necessary to grow and live in the world by consuming milk or to be able to energize/sustain itself by eating honey. Fruit is intended to be consumed by anything that comes along. The plant produces the flesh of the fruit solely to attract an organism, get the organism to eat it (and the seed), and energize the organism to spread the seed contained in the organism far.

 

[baccheion]

Milk's telos is to be consumed by the baby of the mother that produced the milk to make it grow from a newborn into a juvenile or even adult. It has all nutrients and energy necessary for the baby to grow and live in the world. Fruit's telos is to make the being that consumes it as healthy and high energy as possible to spread the seed eaten with the fruit. Honey's telos is to be consumed and thereby energize/sustain the bees that make it.

Just because milk is intended for the baby of the mother that produced the milk or honey is intended for the bees that make it doesn't mean that other things cannot have all the nutrients and energy necessary to grow and live in the world by consuming milk or to be able to energize/sustain itself by eating honey. Fruit is intended to be consumed by anything that comes along. The plant produces the flesh of the fruit solely to attract an organism, get the organism to eat it (and the seed), and energize the organism to spread the seed contained in the organism far.

Milk is most aligned with female puberty, especially the high calcium matching higher needs during those years. It makes sense as rapid change in mass occurs in the 2 years leading up to puberty and then for at least a few years after.

Milk is a highly practical mono food for such years if not allergic. Better than people who are trying and an elimination diet. Especially raw milk, something that only needs iron and B12.

Whole grass milk + Naturelo One Daily for women + B12 to match what supposedly coming in = easy/smooth growth during 10s.

 

[FoodForeal]

Another thing to consider is taste. Raw pasture raised milk organic fruit and honey all taste good if not great. Raw milk can make me feel euphoria. If we exclude processed foods we can generally rely on taste and smell as an indicator of how healthy a food is. Seed oils which are normally repulsive because of the rancid smell are turned into tasty food additives by deodorization. People's instincts (taste) are telling them that seed oils are good for them like the fat they would normally get from animal fat, but their olfactory instinct has been blinded by removing the smell that would tell the body that seed oil (and fishy stinky fish oil) is unhealthy. When your body observes seed oil through taste only, what it "sees" is animal fat. That's why so many people eat so much processed garbage; your body is telling you it is similar in health to saturated animal fat rich foods. It probably tells you to eat it even more voraciously ironically because the food is nutritionally deficient so your body is starving for good food and thinks it found it so tries to get you to eat it as much as it possibly can.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

Why is everyone getting so mad at the OP? chill the **** out people who cares if the guy doesnt like milk or doesnt think its good to consume, hes in a state where obviously he has problems with it so its arrising questions which i think is good, what do you think Ray would say? Ya think Ray would come on here and start bitching at the guy for saying he doesnt think milk is good? Smh all i see i high serotonin when i scroll through posts, some people on here get so defensive and get into full on arguements over stupid ***t that could just be a discussion.

As someone who drinks more milk then probably anyone around, i can say his questions are very valid, and even if theyre not whats wrong with hearing someone out and not giving judgement to it,
Ive been noticing milk seems to increase my metabolic rate while other times it feels extremely estrogenic and prolactogenic, sometimes drinking it makes me feel like a walking bag of bacteria. I notice when i drink milk sometimes i get symptoms of high estrogen, bloating, minor gyno, and bad body odour.

I think even Peat would agree the milk today is not like the milk back then, i drink about 4L of milk a day sometimes 2L and my biggest concern lately is the plastic containers milk comes in. Even the so called cardboard ones are lined with plastic. It makes me question if we're just loading ourselves with endocrine disruptors due to this plastic contamination of milk, so it becomes a tradeoff. Theres a few posts on here talking about plastics in milk products, apparently the actual production process of milk goes through alot of plastics, then when put on the shelf theyre put in plastic containers.

Not only that ive read multiple studies suggesting high prolactin and estrogen among milk drinkers, but ive also seen alot of studies suggesting otherwise. I do notice that when i try to type up any information on milk i have to scroll through pages of mainstream pro-milk bias sources to get any reasonable information, the dairy industry just like the estrogen industry is probably corrupt and only cares about profit so they want to put out good information to steer people away from thinking theres any downsides to milk.

Ive read every single one of Rays articles on milk and ive watched basically every single Ray Peat podcast and i absolutely agree with everything Ray says about milk and dairy,

However, this should still be open to question, we cant just agree with something just cause Ray likes it, and he agrees with that too he always encourages people to use their own self guidance, he is never authoritative with telling people what to eat...

I do think its possible that Ray may be overlooking some of the possible downsides of milk due to his love for milk from a pro metabolic perspective, i think the milk Ray grew up with is not the same milk today,

Some staples of a Peat inspired diet include milk and oj, however both of those things come littered with plastic containers (unless you can find them in glass bottles)

The question is, how much endocrine disruptors might we be loading into our body from plastics by making these a staple of our diet?
The other thing to consider, is the cows providing the milk are all sick animals eating garbage food being overstressed, Ray has even acknowledged this can have a very negative effect on the milk, i think these questions are very rational and we should be open minded to things we may have been ignorant to.

Like i mentioned i drink 2-4L of milk a day, and ive been doing this for almost 7 years with the Peat stuff, and even i can see where this guy is coming from, sometimes milk seems to feel anti-androgenic for me, and give me symptoms of almost andropause, is this from milk? Im not sure, but im not gonna rule it out as a possibility, i do notice at times when i take a break from milk sometimes the bloating subsides and my T and dopamine seems to feel higher, i notice milk also seems to make my mouth feel really gross and dirty,

The bacteria said to cause crohns disease is also known to be found in high levels in milk mycobacterium paratuberculosis,

@Starchless

Lets have an open discussion about this stuff because i think its totally worth being open minded to and addressing

Well him saying “Milk Is The Most Non Peaty Peat Food Ever“ is like going into a Southern Georgia bar and yelling “Yankees kick Brave’s ****”. Not really gunna fly.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Well him saying “Milk Is The Most Non Peaty Peat Food Ever“ is like going into a Southern Georgia bar and yelling “Yankees kick Brave’s ****”. Not really gunna fly.

Haha i mean you do make a fair point there my friend?

 

[Razvan]

I've seen some articles and people saying that milk can cause autism,,maybe the op is right,but apparently eliminating milk still can cause autism in some people.

You talk of low serotonin,i respect your opinion,maybe you are right,who knows? But you knew people from this forum hype milk up and i see what you did here, you chase attention by tricking people with over exagerrated titles and words and clickbait them to chase attention. You are intelligent, what you intended worked amazingly,but i cannot call you low serotonin, just open the door, leave the tecnology alone,go out and try to socialize, this attention-seeking sentiment will go away.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

“””I'm not a vegan, but I cannot find an argument against "we are not baby cows". No matter how good the milk is in quality, no matter how raw it is, we still aren't baby cows and therefore it will trigger some kind of inflammation/abnormality when humans ingest it. […] Drinking the milk that was meant for another animal could not possibly lead to better health in a fully developed human, it's very out of place.”””

Proof on inflammatory response, please? I do great on it. I had a problem on it for a while, but some people also have a problem digesting a certain optimizing ratio of gelatin, or even red meat (via prion disease), this is not an indicator of a foods toxicity — even for starch, in certain healthy contexts, if saturated fat is adequate, a high metabolic person can digest a well cooked potato with zero problems. These are problems with people’s digestion, not the food.

So, you claim it’s not natural. But, this is illogical. No food is made to be consumed by any creature, except literally milk! While it’s argued that sugar in fruit is made to entice an animal to spread its seed, this is not the case with animals, shellfish, bamboo shoots, carrots, potatoes, etc. you would have to be logically consistent in the “natural” argument. By your logic, milk is the most natural food for any animal, because it’s actually made for an animal to consume — Not grass, not other animals, etc.
the only thing you can honestly say about non-human-mammal milk as a suboptimal food for humans, is that the macros, and possibly nutrients, are not in the same ratio as human breast milk. There is actually less casomorphin in cows milk than human milk.
What nutrient is in cows milk that’s not in human’s milk?? I’m actually curious if there is one.

Then, there's all the opiods inside milk which have been shown to make autism worse, casein aswell which seems to make autism worse. As well as hormones that we are against such as prolactin and estrogen, the highest amount of these things are found in milk (even if it's raw organic, doesn't matter because it's naturally there in the milk and it's supposed to be)

Again, human milk has way more casomorphin. And, I can’t be bothered to look it up again, but it’s possible that the inability to produce the peptides to neutralize it’s effects, is again, a problem in the human, that is conditional upon health. We know many metabolic things become pronounced when a human gets an MTHFR issue, induced by a B2 deficiency. We also know that lactating mothers have way more casomorphins present in their body than normal… i guess if it’s gonna be claimed as such a negative thing on opioid receptors, it’d be worth observing the effects on lo mg term wetnurses.
Also, coffee neutralizes the casomorphin, so if it’s such a problem, consume coffee. We all agree that you don’t want your sugar to protein ratio too high, so eat addequate protein with your sugar, and vice versa.

You know what else is found in milk which most people here are against? Tryptophan, high levels of tryptophan which will convert into serotonin. There's no known proof that the calcium "Blocks the effect", because otherwise, why do people feel so tired/lazy after drinking a glass of milk and not energized? It doesn't just make you "relaxed from the calcium" it also seems to have a very numbing tryptophan effect on humans. I have taken SSRIS long time ago and played around with serotonin-increasing compounds so I know what high serotonin feels like, all kinds of dairy makes me feel very high serotonin/high estrogen and causes slight anhedonia aswell. Aswell as a diminished libido.

Tryptophan is conditionally problematic. There are multiple tryptophan to serotonin pathways, and multiple ways to prevent it and convert it into niacin, instead. BCAA’s, which milk is high in, t3, which Ray advocates supplementing, and after a long enough pro-metabolic diet, you should be able to produce yourself, calcium, casein, low pufa, etc. I find it curious you just dismissed Ray’s calcium claim — I guess that’s not bad, but you could email him and ask him for a source?
Casein and BCAA:

Delaying/blocking Tryptophan Absorption In Gut

Ray hinted in some of his email correspondence that BCAA competes with tryptophan for uptake not only in the brain but in cells throughout the body. I have been searching for studies confirming that and it seems I found some. They are attached to this email. Long story short - for every unit...

raypeatforum.com

I get an absolutely opposite effect from dairy: energized, youthful, happy, sustained blood sugar… again, all indicators of individual levels of gut health… and a negative effect in one, is most likely a gut issue in the person.

“””I understand that milk is probably better than starch and is a convenient source of nutrients, but in no way is it optimal, and you guys can't deny that, we biologically don't want milk past infancy and it is not apart of a natural human diet. And drinking milk all the time probably convinces the human body that it is a baby and needs to rapidly grow into a bigger version, hence all the weight gain/water retention people experience with milk. It's just simply not meant for us.”””

Not everyone experiences Weight gain and water retention. Again, this is a gut-health issue.

In light of all this, I don’t see milk being a suboptimal food.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Milk gang pull up

View attachment 35593

The only opinion that counts. Based and milkpilled

 

[Matestube]

I've seen some articles and people saying that milk can cause autism,,maybe the op is right,but apparently eliminating milk still can cause autism in some people.

Almost every single study on milk uses pasteurized milk, and not fresh raw milk. Pasteurized dairy is known for causing a host of troubles.
We can't conclude anything for raw milk.

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

Almost every single study on milk uses pasteurized milk, and not fresh raw milk. Pasteurized dairy is known for causing a host of troubles.
We can't conclude anything for raw milk.

Pasteurization burns lactose and causes carcinogenicity.
Besides that, those studies on autism showed severe gut issues.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

I don’t feel tired after drinking milk, but I do after consuming meat or starch because they crash my blood sugar.

Did you confirm that with blood tests?
I too thought I had hypoglycaemia, but I never did when I measured.

 

[Xemnoraq]

Pasteurization burns lactose and causes carcinogenicity.
Besides that, those studies on autism showed severe gut issues.

dammnn is this true? because i been cooking my rice in milk instead so i throw my minute rice in a bowl of milk and toss it in the microwave for 4 minutes you think thats bad?

 

[BRBsavinWorld]

dammnn is this true? because i been cooking my rice in milk instead so i throw my minute rice in a bowl of milk and toss it in the microwave for 4 minutes you think thats bad?

I think it’s only bad if you have a gut sensitivity, aka “gut permeability.” If you feel fine keep doing it. I think it’s only problematic in extreme cases.

 

[Korven]

This is RPF when someone starts hating on the melk:


View: https://youtu.be/Jag7oTemldY?t=8

 

[Jennifer]

Did you confirm that with blood tests?
I too thought I had hypoglycaemia, but I never did when I measured.

It was confirmed through multiple tests, including blood tests, yes. My blood glucose was measuring dangerously low—as low as 50. Out of all the tests, I found urine testing to be the most accurate, convenient and non-invasive method. Maybe your symptoms are related to poor digestion of certain foods and/or SIBO? In my experience, the symptoms can overlap quite a bit such as sleepiness and mood disturbances--irritability, weepiness, anxiousness and even having dark, self-loathing and/or suicidal thoughts. The main differences between the two that I experience(d) is with hypoglycemia, I also have the shakes, lightheadedness/dizziness, often to the point of fainting, and an urgency to pee, and with poor digestion, I had a white, non-thrush coating on my tongue, bloating and a rash.

 

[GreekDemiGod]

@Jennifer What is interesting is that even I was not hypoglycaemic, eating sugar/ carbs / juice fixed my symptoms.

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

Good morning (afternoon, evening) MILK & coffee fans :)

 

[FocusedOnHealth]

This is RPF when someone starts hating on the melk:


View: https://youtu.be/Jag7oTemldY?t=8

 

[Jennifer]

@GreekDemiGod, I believe it. They fixed my symptoms, too. That and certain proteins.