Milk bloating is from Tryptophan, not liquid.

Discussion in 'Working Through Milk Issues' started by natedawggh, Dec 9, 2015.

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  1. natedawggh

    natedawggh Member

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    I have often seen posters complaining about excess bloat when attempting to have a ray peat inspired diet. This often results in the subsequent elimination of liquids, and suspicion toward milk specifically

    It is true that bloating often occurs but it is not for the amount of liquid, but is caused by the high tryptophan content of milk specifically. Dr peat is quoted as saying that milk is not an appropriate food for some adults, because of this high tryptophan. In my own experience I encountered this effect. I drink so much coffee, natural soda, and carbonated water throughout he day which far exceeds the liquid contained in the amount of milk I used to drink, but I do not experience bloating unless I consume milk.

    You can easily get the benefits of milk without drinking milk by consuming casein protein as a supplement, and using eggshell or calcium carbonate, thus avoiding the high tryptophan. Healthy adults with robust metabolisms convert the tryptophan to niacin. This is only a problem for those already suffering from metabolic disorders.
     
  2. superhuman

    superhuman Member

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    great. What about water retention that ppl complain about with milk?
     
  3. Brian

    Brian Member

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    Milk protein content is 80% casein. There is barely any difference in tryptophan content between milk and casein powder, so I'm not sure how your position can be true. Are there some products that remove tryptophan?

    When I have done poorly on milk in the past I think it was from low magnesium, vitamin K, sodium, and stomach acid. Taurine greatly boosted milk digestibility for me. So my view is that poorly digested milk feeds endotoxin. Raw milk digests better than homogenized for me as well, so I think that can also be a factor in people with weaker digestion.
     
  4. answersfound

    answersfound Member

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    Agreed. Milk bloating is not from tryptophan, but rather, the body it's going into. Milk is the perfect food.
     
  5. Nicholas

    Nicholas Member

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    while i don't know if this is true, i did start to put two and two together yesterday and realized that this feeling of water retention i get sometimes may actually just be bloating...i.e. serotonin or digestive disturbance.

    i get that "water retention" feling sometimes from coffee drinking, from bone broth, and from excess fruits......but perhaps it's bloating
     
  6. Nicholas

    Nicholas Member

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    it wouldn't make sense that he would deal with casein over milk for the reason of tryptophan, but i think it's still valid that the tryptophan can be the "bloating" and "water retention" factor for some milk drinkers. does not tryptophan raise serotonin in an especially low metabolic state? i.e. "from low magnesium, vitamin k, sodium, and stomach acid"
     
  7. Giraffe

    Giraffe Member

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  8. Brian

    Brian Member

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    I think one of the benefits of protein powders is that they are already denatured, so then protein enzymes can immediately begin breaking them into amino acids. Fresh milk must be first denatured by stomach acid. This takes a lot of acid just to get it to that stage, which is very unlikely to be present in someone with metabolism issues. For this reason I think it is a big mistake to consume milk in large quantities when starting with low metabolism.

    Something like condensed milk would probably work great too, because of how denatured the proteins are and is much lower in liquid. It's too bad most store bought brands are full of carrageenan. It would be a great Peaty food for people starting with low stomach acid.
     
  9. barefooter

    barefooter Member

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    Hmmm, maybe I'll have to try getting some--I do love Vietnamese coffee. There's an organic one on amazon that just lists milk and sugar. Whole foods seems to carry an organic condensed milk too, but I can't seem to find the ingredients online.
     
  10. michael94

    michael94 Member

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    why not add some collagen hydrolysate to your milk ? should help with the tryptophan if youre converting to serotonin over niacin heavily

    That + dealing with what Brian said should allow you to deal with milk very well :)

     
  11. mt_dreams

    mt_dreams Member

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    most brands of condensed milk have only 2 ingredients, that being sugar & milk, at a 7:1 sugar to protein ratio.

    Evaporated milk contains additives like carrageenan, disodium phosphate, etc. I haven't looked at the whole foods evaporated milk, but I believe some sort of additive needs to be in place for evaporated milk to be able to be canned. You can make your own evaporated milk quite easily by using just milk powder & liquid. This type would have milks regular 1.5-1 sugar to protein ratio.
     
  12. Brian

    Brian Member

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    I just made some evaporated milk for breakfast. Brought two cups of milk to a boil then down to a simmer for about a half hour. Stirred a few times. It evaporated down to a little less than one cup. It's good stuff.
     
  13. milk_lover

    milk_lover Member

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    Few things that might help with digesting milk better:
    1- add sugar/honey or drink orange juice with milk, for sugars help with milk protein utilization
    2- heat up the milk, cold milk can lead to bloating. My uncle swears by warm milk!
    3- drink coffee or orange juice or salt with milk because they stimulate HCL production which helps with milk digestion, or drink milk with a meal because of sufficient HCL in the system. Magnesium chloride can increase HCL production too
    4- as a bonus, orange juice and coffee along with chocolate & MgCl can give good supply of magnesium that helps with calcium metabolism
    5- If you can find and afford non-homogeneous organic vitamins-free milk, that would be even better
    6- other animals like goat can give easy to digest milk.
    7- You don't need to drink milk by itself, you can mix it with other stuff. Prime example is coffee latte with sugar.
    8- No need to drink gallons of milk! Go easy on the milk. Liter to 2 liters of milk a day is more than enough.
    9- Try to enjoy the milk, if you force it down your throat, you may not be digesting it well. Enjoying the food is very important in digestion.
    10- Low-fat milk is good if you're concerned about calories intake. It's lower in estrogen too. I wrote point 10 so I can have 10 items :D

    Brian why do you think taurine helps with milk digestion? That's an interesting thing to know.
     
  14. Nicholas

    Nicholas Member

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    ...might be the increased bile output..
     
  15. welshwing

    welshwing Member

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    Is this helpful? http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml

    "It happens that gelatin is a protein which contains no tryptophan, and only small amounts of cysteine, methionine, and histidine. Using gelatin as a major dietary protein is an easy way to restrict the amino acids that are associated with many of the problems of aging."

    I think he's saying that eating gelatin with milk will inhibit the effects of tryptophan.
     
  16. OP
    natedawggh

    natedawggh Member

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    The high tryptophan is contained in the whey, the 20% part you didn't discuss. Also, it's not about amount, but ratio. Peat is quoted in talking about how the whey portion is the least nutritious, and he is also my source for the Trphtophan content of milk. I LOVE raw milk, but it's only been since I got my metabolism up that I have been able to use it without getting any bloating. Yes, I think tryptophan totally aids in the digestion/assimilation of milk protein.

    You disagree with that but then you agree that it has to do with the body it's goin into, which is exactly what I was just talking about. So you're just contrarian, and you do a disservice to yourself and to anyone not smart enough to look past your simplistic hyperbole. Milk is a good food but for some adults with health issues, again, the higher ratio of tryptophan can be problematic, and it is converted to serotonin. If you want to argue the virtues of milk go do it somewhere else, because you're not actually disagreeing with anyone here.
    Also, denatured tryptophan is HIGHLY toxic. I tried this with condensed milk once and it produced such a profound swelling/bloating/migraine reaction I haven't touched it since. It could have been the additives but I don't think processing a food that intensely and then canning it for long periods of time can do anything but make it worse for humans.
     
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