Mikhaila Peterson's Oral Fecal Microbiota Transplant Experiment

DawN

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The Petersons are good people... correct about everything? No... but please stop.
Can anyone explain to me what „„good” people” precisely means?
I do not think J. Peterson contributet anything of real value to the discussion about human psyche. He’s just as distorting and misleading as Freud or Adler was.
 

boris

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Sorry for going off topic.....

@DawN @Risingfire
I listened to lots of his lectures when he started to get recommended heavily on youtube. Millions and millions of views, so many people being amazed about what he has to tell, I really wanted to get it. But there wasn't much there. I feel like he's always talking in circles, and seems to almost always end somewhere completely unrelated to the initial premise. I never hear the answer to the problem that was raised.

Peterson seems like a good guy on the inside, but he has no morals as far as I'm concerned. He worked together with John "pizza.jpg" Podesta for the crooked UN. He worked for Monsanto and worked for the Trilateral "Technocratic" Comission as a speaker. He's a mouth for hire. So far I don't see him working for our good (although I respect him for admitting now that those drugs he was taking are evil).

@DawN
In what way was Adler distorting/misleading? I'm asking because I'm not familiar at all with his whole philosophy, but I got some things from him that actually helped me.
 

gaze

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to be honest, I don't think getting bacteria tested to see which strains you have, even if its c diff, is really important. I think its just total bacteria overgrowth. Mikhaila mentions how she has antibiotic resistant c diff, but really what she has is bacteria, yeast, and fungus probably all rising up her intestines' for some form of sugar. Ray mentioned as well if you try and starve these type of particles, they can eventually reach your stomach for food, and with her only eating beef, shes probably undereating and not eating enough fat, low calcium, high iron (which is a bacterial breeding ground). Then again, I empathize a lot with people suffering from gut problems, so don't blame anyone in the slightest for trying different things to see what works for them.
 
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animalcule

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Mikhaila Peterson gave an update photo of Jordan: Login • Instagram

Apparently he has recently recovered from COVID-19. He looks thin but his skin tone is good. I do wonder if his sensitivity to the anti anxiety meds that led to him being hospitalized was exacerbated by this diet ... Ever since I went off carnivore, I've wondered about the affect that diet is having on their family. Jordan's wife was found to have a very rare type of cancer (pancreatic, I think) sometime after going on carnivore herself. Likely not related, but again, who knows. Then Jordan had that paradoxical reaction to those meds and went through hell with withdrawal. Again, these meds are overprescribed and plenty of people suffer terrible withdrawal symptoms who aren't on the carnivore diet. But still: that diet made me more sensitive to almost everything. I do wonder if it played some role in exacerbating their health problems (including Mikhaila's C. Diff)

to be honest, I don't think getting bacteria tested to see which strains you have, even if its c diff, is really important. I think its just total bacteria overgrowth. Mikhaila mentions how she has antibiotic resistant c diff, but really what she has is bacteria, yeast, and fungus probably all rising up her intestines' for some form of sugar. Ray mentioned as well if you try and starve these type of particles, they can eventually reach your stomach for food, and with her only eating beef, shes probably undereating and not eating enough fat, low calcium, high iron (which is a bacterial breeding ground). Then again, I empathize a lot with people suffering from gut problems, so don't blame anyone in the slightest for trying different things to see what works for them.

I agree that her all meat diet could very well have contributed to overall bacteria/yeast overgrowth. I know that she got tested and found C. Diff was extremely high. Plus: she was suffering from diarrhea for a long time, caused by the c. diff. I don't think she will ever connect the dots between her diet and the overgrowth. Typically zerocarber's think that if they eat no plant matter/sugar, they are starving all bacteria/yeast, causing the bacteria/yeast to just die. It's counterintuitive to that mindset to consider that some strains are so determined to live that they'll creep up higher and higher into the digestive tract (and deep and deeper) in search of sugar. They assume the bacteria just dies off.

I am very curious about Mikhaila's oral FMT protocol and its applications. But I am not impressed with her "lion diet." I'm also positive her influence plays a big part in keeping her dad on the diet. I really wonder how long he will last on it, given that his daughter is now like a spokeswoman for it and has spent years promoting its benefits. Not only will the diet be hard to quit because he will be more sensitive to everything he eats (and then he may assume that the reason he can't eat it is because he *shouldn't* be eating it, proving the all meat dieters right), but it will be hard to quit because his daughter will be right by his side telling him not to quit, ever.
 

Frankdee20

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This sounds disgusting as hell. There's several steps in maintaining a relatively benign microbiome, but the two most important ones are A) producing enough stomach acid to digest meals, and B) keeping the small intestine as sterile as possible. I can't really see how this helps with either, and in regards to the latter, may actually make the situation worse.

I think tankasnowgod's perspective makes much more sense. Try charcoal or antibiotics, and/or reduce the amount of starch you're eating. Starch can be sneaky, even the so called "safe starches." Well cooked potatoes don't cause me any noticeable digestive stress, however my transit time does slow when I eat them, so pay attention to this when you eat starch. A slower transit time could eventually lead to problem if it's prolonged.

Yeah but don’t antibiotics cause C Diff ?
 

Jessie

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Yeah but don’t antibiotics cause C Diff ?
I think they can, yeah. Or at least this is what conventional wisdom suggests.

I think microdosing good antibiotics like Penicillin and Tetracycline is relatively benign. Which is what Danny/Peat recommends for clearing endotoxin.

But if you've got C Diff, your best bet is probably something like charcoal or phages. Using something that can gently shift the internal environment of the microbiome to a more favorable position is probably best.

I certainly don't think encapsulating s**t and swallowing it is very useful. But, lets say hypothetically it does have benefits. Would it not make better sense to go the enema route? Oral administration would just result in SIBO most likely.
 
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animalcule

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Yeah but don’t antibiotics cause C Diff ?

Yes, they can. That is one of the reasons why fecal microbiota transplants are being used. The idea is that you repopulate your gut with a full spectrum of healthy bacteria via FMT from a healthy donor, and this combats the C Diff. Antibiotics will kill certain strains (healthy and unhealthy) and may result in further dysbiosis, possibly without even clearing out the C diff. infection. It's a mess.
 

Frankdee20

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I think they can, yeah. Or at least this is what conventional wisdom suggests.

I think microdosing good antibiotics like Penicillin and Tetracycline is relatively benign. Which is what Danny/Peat recommends for clearing endotoxin.

But if you've got C Diff, your best bet is probably something like charcoal or phages. Using something that can gently shift the internal environment of the microbiome to a more favorable position is probably best.

I certainly don't think encapsulating s**t and swallowing it is very useful. But, lets say hypothetically it does have benefits. Would it not make better sense to go the enema route? Oral administration would just result in SIBO most likely.
Yeah but she said the enema didn’t work because it wasn’t the large intestine issue
 

Frankdee20

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Is bactrim OK to take ? Sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim ..... They gave me this post drainage of my skin cyst, but I only use a topical mipirocin cream for wound care
 
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animalcule

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I think they can, yeah. Or at least this is what conventional wisdom suggests.

I think microdosing good antibiotics like Penicillin and Tetracycline is relatively benign. Which is what Danny/Peat recommends for clearing endotoxin.

But if you've got C Diff, your best bet is probably something like charcoal or phages. Using something that can gently shift the internal environment of the microbiome to a more favorable position is probably best.

I certainly don't think encapsulating s**t and swallowing it is very useful. But, lets say hypothetically it does have benefits. Would it not make better sense to go the enema route? Oral administration would just result in SIBO most likely.

Again, please read the study listed in the video description:
Case series of successful treatment with fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) oral capsules mixed from multiple donors even in patients previously treated with FMT enemas for recurrent Clostridium difficile infection

The answer to one of your questions ("Would it not make sense to go the enema route?") is in the title of the study: "Case series of successful treatment with fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) oral capsules mixed from multiple donors even in patients previously treated with FMT enemas for recurrent Clostridium difficile infection"

It's confusing that you still state that you don't think "encapsulating ***t and swallowing it is very useful" -- the experiment was run, and it was found to be a successful intervention, even on patients whose C difficule infections were so bad that FMT enemas did not work. This is a fascinating study, and a fascinating subject. Yes, it seems like a gross intervention and yet: it is very successful. It doesn't have "hypothetical" benefits - it has proven ones.

If you've got an overgrowth of C. diff, your best bet is to get it under control ASAP. This is an infection that can kill people, especially the elderly and immunocompromised. If you have a mild overgrowth and want to experiment with charcoal and phages, fine. But if you have a serious, antibiotic resistant C diff infection, you are unlikely to want to mess around with charcoal and phages (as you'll likely be bed ridden or sh***ing diarrhea on the toilet multiple times a day), and might consider experimenting with a non-pharmaceutical, completely natural intervention (FMT, oral or via enema) that is showing great results. There's no reason to imagine that an intervention meant to repopulate your microbiome using the microbiome of a healthy donor will contribute to SIBO, especially when results to date seem to show otherwise.

This is an area obviously still in its infancy, so there's much to be learned and certainly reason to be skeptical, but it's also an area that's incredibly promising.
 
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animalcule

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Yeah but she said the enema didn’t work because it wasn’t the large intestine issue
He apparently didn't read the study and didn't actually watch the video.

Is bactrim OK to take ? Sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim ..... They gave me this post drainage of my skin cyst, but I only use a topical mipirocin cream for wound care
You're asking for advice from the wrong person/people. Jessie cannot help you. Nor can most people on this forum, even though answers seem to swirl around some similar ideas. It's interesting to hear others' thoughts, but as with most thing, people don't know what they don't know, but we all can't help and speak as though we do.
 

Frankdee20

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He apparently didn't read the study and didn't actually watch the video.


You're asking for advice from the wrong person/people. Jessie cannot help you. Nor can most people on this forum, even though answers seem to swirl around some similar ideas. It's interesting to hear others' thoughts, but as with most thing, people don't know what they don't know, but we all can't help and speak as though we do.

Yeah, I’m foolish for asking, but my mind was made up anyway.... unless I have a life threatening infection, I won’t take them
 

Jessie

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Is bactrim OK to take ? Sulfamethoxazole and trimethoprim ..... They gave me this post drainage of my skin cyst, but I only use a topical mipirocin cream for wound care
It might be okay, I don't really know. The only ones I've heard recommended are penicillin and tetracycline. I think erythromycin as well. Probably best to use them as a last resort, when stuff like flower of sulfur and CamphoSal didn't work.

Again, please read the study listed in the video description:
Case series of successful treatment with fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) oral capsules mixed from multiple donors even in patients previously treated with FMT enemas for recurrent Clostridium difficile infection

The answer to one of your questions ("Would it not make sense to go the enema route?") is in the title of the study: "Case series of successful treatment with fecal microbiota transplant (FMT) oral capsules mixed from multiple donors even in patients previously treated with FMT enemas for recurrent Clostridium difficile infection"

It's confusing that you still state that you don't think "encapsulating ***t and swallowing it is very useful" -- the experiment was run, and it was found to be a successful intervention, even on patients whose C difficule infections were so bad that FMT enemas did not work. This is a fascinating study, and a fascinating subject. Yes, it seems like a gross intervention and yet: it is very successful. It doesn't have "hypothetical" benefits - it has proven ones.

If you've got an overgrowth of C. diff, your best bet is to get it under control ASAP. This is an infection that can kill people, especially the elderly and immunocompromised. If you have a mild overgrowth and want to experiment with charcoal and phages, fine. But if you have a serious, antibiotic resistant C diff infection, you are unlikely to want to mess around with charcoal and phages (as you'll likely be bed ridden or sh***ing diarrhea on the toilet multiple times a day), and might consider experimenting with a non-pharmaceutical, completely natural intervention (FMT, oral or via enema) that is showing great results. There's no reason to imagine that an intervention meant to repopulate your microbiome using the microbiome of a healthy donor will contribute to SIBO, especially when results to date seem to show otherwise.

This is an area obviously still in its infancy, so there's much to be learned and certainly reason to be skeptical, but it's also an area that's incredibly promising.

I mean, all I saw was someone solving one problem and possibly creating another at the same time. There is no such thing as a healthy donor when you're eating feces, and it's not "hypothetical" that you're giving yourself SIBO either, it's very possible, and probable. The fact you mention this is in it's "infancy" isn't making it any better either, particularly when complete dumbasses like Mikhalia are supporting it. She's about as illiterate as they come.

Also, charcoal and phages are about as non-pharmaceutical as they come. Both substances are readily available OTC. But hell, you're probably right, I can't help you. Have fun eating your s**t, lmfao.
 
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animalcule

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It might be okay, I don't really know. The only ones I've heard recommended are penicillin and tetracycline. I think erythromycin as well. Probably best to use them as a last resort, when stuff like flower of sulfur and CamphoSal didn't work.



I mean, all I saw was someone solving one problem and possibly creating another at the same time. There is no such thing as a healthy donor when you're eating feces, and it's not "hypothetical" that you're giving yourself SIBO either, it's very possible, and probable. The fact you mention this is in it's "infancy" isn't making it any better either, particularly when complete dumbasses like Mikhalia are supporting it. She's about as illiterate as they come.

Also, charcoal and phages are about as non-pharmaceutical as they come. Both substances are readily available OTC. But hell, you're probably right, I can't help you. Have fun eating your s**t, lmfao.

You've got your position, I've got mine.

The stool samples are tested for pathogens and bacteria levels prior to being encapsulated. Feces enemas were probably similarly scoffed at just a few years ago, and look at their usage now. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss it, is all. The fact that oral FMT is being shown to eliminate bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine suggests to me that fear of oral FMT causing bacterial overgrowth may be misplaced. I know: adding bacteria to the small intestine doesn't seem like it would reduce bacterial overgrowth and yet... it does. Very curious, very cool. Clearly there is much to be learned here.

As for Mikhaila, I'm not a big fan of hers, but she's obviously not "illiterate." She's gone down the diet rabbit hole the same as pretty much everyone else on this forum has, just in a different direction. And she's done it very publicly, at a pretty young age. Millions of people are going to watch her learning curve. I expect (hope) her views change as she learns and experiences more. Hopefully she won't continue to be so dogmatic, and hopefully she won't stand in the way of her father leaving the carnivore diet should his health deteriorate (as I suspect it may, COVID-19 aside).
 
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animalcule

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It might be okay, I don't really know. The only ones I've heard recommended are penicillin and tetracycline. I think erythromycin as well. Probably best to use them as a last resort, when stuff like flower of sulfur and CamphoSal didn't work.



I mean, all I saw was someone solving one problem and possibly creating another at the same time. There is no such thing as a healthy donor when you're eating feces, and it's not "hypothetical" that you're giving yourself SIBO either, it's very possible, and probable. The fact you mention this is in it's "infancy" isn't making it any better either, particularly when complete dumbasses like Mikhalia are supporting it. She's about as illiterate as they come.

Also, charcoal and phages are about as non-pharmaceutical as they come. Both substances are readily available OTC. But hell, you're probably right, I can't help you. Have fun eating your s**t, lmfao.
Well... it's an actual FDA approved pill now. Fun to watch an intervention go from "that's so stupid and gross" to "here's your FDA approved feces pill."
 
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