Microdosing Mushrooms To Reduce Serotonin

Discussion in 'Autism' started by MaxVerstappen, Sep 30, 2020.

  1. Cloudhands

    Cloudhands Member

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    Regular dmt - yes
    5meo? Nooo.
     
  2. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    I heard 5 meo is much different, not as visual and more ego shattering
     
  3. Collden

    Collden Member

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    Mushrooms and other psychadelic trips definitely comprise two distinct phases - the first is highly emotional and self-reflective - whereas the second, or comedown/afterglow phase is very euphoric, directed and motivated. But I don't know if these two phases can be definitely reduced to just one neurotransmitter vs the other, probably its also reflecting changed activity of these signals in certain parts of the brain but not others.

    If you think about dopamine is usually associated with - focus, motivation, planning, future-orientation, executive behaviour and motor coordination - its very clear these brain functions are almost completely shut off during the first phase of psychadelic trips, so it would suggest it is a low dopamine state, but probably only affecting certain parts of the dopaminergic system. The first phase is also associated with vastly reduced sensory gating (your perceptions are richer) - which is typically understood to be mediated by serotonin - ie lower sensory gating means lower serotonin. So the first phase is characterised by both lower serotonin and lower dopamine, at least in certain circuits, whereas dopamine may be increased in other parts associated with perception, whereas the second phase is more clearly a high dopamine state.

    In schizophrenia, for instance, hallucinations and increased perception is associated with increased D2 receptor activity, whereas lack of motivation and reduced motor coordination/speech is associated with reduced D1 activity, and this disorder is also associated with increased mesolimbic and reduced cortical dopamine signalling, - so the first phase of psychadelic trips could result from a similar pattern of dopaminergic activity.

    The emotional/self-reflective first phase seems to be necessary for the second euphoric/motivated phase though, you are more open to access and process subconscious and blocked emotions during the first phase - the resolution of which leads to a renewed feeling of freedom and sense of purpose in the second phase. The first phase puts you in a vulnerable and highly suggestible mental state akin to infancy wherein deeply buried wounds can be healed - the second phase brings you back to your adult faculties with a renewed and strengthened emotional foundation.
     
  4. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    But activation of 5HT2A circuits leads to enhanced calcium influx, and Glutaminergic activity in the frontal cortex, and this is believed to be part of the trip... This receptor also indirectly effects Dopamine release in certain regions ...
     
  5. Collden

    Collden Member

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    Yeah to be honest I find the serotonin and dopamine circuits and interactions to be too confusing to wrap my head around, so I prefer to think of various drugs in terms of their broader effects on cognition. There seems to be a clear division and reciprocal relationship between self-reflective and motivated states that are characterised by different levels of dopamine and serotonin, but these states should be in balance - motivation without self-reflection is just as bad as the reciprocal. Psychadelics will sequentially put you in both states and they should be equally embraced. Yin and Yang.
     
  6. rei

    rei Member

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    My idea on this issue is derived from same kind of principle as how science is trying to explain seroquel's differing effect from most and especially typical antipsychotics. The binding properties.

    Psychedelic substances bind the receptor for a long time, working as functional antagonists. The body works based on change in balance. Serotonin binds and releases soon to achieve one signal, one activation of serotonin receptor. It can bind soon again unless reuptaken effectively, causing another signal. etc. When LSD occupies the receptor for 12 hours it causes one activation, and then it blocks further signals for 12 hours.

    The "come up" restless phase is the increased serotonin signalling, and the "trip" is when large part of the receptors cannot produce more signals as they are long-time bound by what medicine calls an agonist. But ends up working like an antagonist.
     
  7. ecstatichamster

    ecstatichamster Member

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    I always disliked the stomach tightness I got with LSD and mescaline.
     
  8. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    Does Mescaline cause the uncontrollable laughter like LSD ? My face would hurt from laughing on Acid
     
  9. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    But then again, being as I was a teenager, I’d be more inclined to laugh... if I took LSD today, maybe not so much... but it’s a common thing on ACID... but I think LSD isn’t really for mystical experiences like DMT... it makes you think a lot about patterns, and there’s not much visuals on LSD, except shapes can be vibrating and squiggly ... but I don’t see any elves
     
  10. OP
    MaxVerstappen

    MaxVerstappen Member

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    Do anyone know any good litterature on the history of LSD and how its related to the research on serotonin?
     
  11. Frankdee20

    Frankdee20 Member

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    The 5HT2A receptor became a target of subsequent generations of antipsychotic drugs due to the propensity of psychedelics to instill schizophrenia like mental states... Interestingly, first generation ones targeted Dopamine due to the propensity of amphetamines to instill psychotic states... But those resembled paranoid schizophrenia more than anything...
     
  12. docall18

    docall18 Member

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    Not sure of d exact biochemistry, but whatever way you cut it both lsd and mushrooms potently reduce serotonin.

    The only difference I find between dem is mushrooms tend to make u more sleepy from reduced serotonin/cortisol, lsd less so.
     
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