Methylene Blue Raises Glutathione

ddjd

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Can someone clarify does methylene blue have an effect on glutathione levels
 

Zpol

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Bumping this.

Can someone clarify does methylene blue have an effect on glutathione levels
level.

I have low glutathione. It is a piece of my health puzzle that I haven't addressed yet. Any effect MB might possibly have on glutathione levels would be useful to know. It'd be nice if it could raise it to adequate level but not push it into the pro-oxidant zone.
Hope somebody chimes in on this!
 

haidut

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I don't think it raises glutathione levels, but it does affect the GSSG/GSH ratio (raising), which is another redox marker similar to NAD/NADH, FAD/FADH, and pyruvate/lactate. So, MB basically puts into a more oxidized state. To raise total glutathione levels, supplementing with about 10g glycine for 2 weeks has been shown to work. Some studies combine glycine with NAC as well since both amino acids are components of glutathione, but I think this is not needed as there is already plenty of NAC floating around from muscle catabolism and protein ingestion.
Effect of increasing glutathione with cysteine and glycine supplementation on mitochondrial fuel oxidation, insulin sensitivity, and body compositi... - PubMed - NCBI
 

GAF

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B2 raises Glutathione but it's yellow, not blue, and blue might be your favorite color. Recently, someone mentioned liposomal glutathione in a post. Worth trying, I think.
 

Zpol

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I don't think it raises glutathione levels, but it does affect the GSSG/GSH ratio (raising), which is another redox marker similar to NAD/NADH, FAD/FADH, and pyruvate/lactate. So, MB basically puts into a more oxidized state. To raise total glutathione levels, supplementing with about 10g glycine for 2 weeks has been shown to work. Some studies combine glycine with NAC as well since both amino acids are components of glutathione, but I think this is not needed as there is already plenty of NAC floating around from muscle catabolism and protein ingestion.
Effect of increasing glutathione with cysteine and glycine supplementation on mitochondrial fuel oxidation, insulin sensitivity, and body compositi... - PubMed - NCBI

This is great news! I was worried that I would have to take a glutathione supp to patch the problem but not fix it. I have tried NAC alone before but it didn't agree with me, plus probably not a good idea to take supplemental cysteine in the first place for the reason you mentioned and others. Pretty sure I'm not getting 10g glycine per day from gelatin alone, I'll have to add in some glycine capsules to top it off.
Thank you kindly for this info.
 

Zpol

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B2 raises Glutathione but it's yellow, not blue, and blue might be your favorite color. Recently, someone mentioned liposomal glutathione in a post. Worth trying, I think.

Lol... Actually, I like green so I'll take both!
In fact I have already started taking both Oxidal and Energin and will get another blood plasma NutaEval in the next few months to see where I'm at.
If it's still low I will have to take the liposomal glutathione and get tested regularly to make sure it's not too much.
 

Zpol

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MB seems to give me some irritability as well as a slight headache...

Have you tried Oxidal? There is some possibility that MB raises serotonin, it is a MAO-A inhibitor, this could cause the side effects. Haidut has added caffeine to the Oxidal formulation, as a dopaminergic, to mitigate the serotonin issue.
 

Terma

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I don't think so, if it raised glutathione it would work slightly better against alcohol, but it sucks (theanine rocks for this).
 

Zpol

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What theanine helps reduce a hangover?

Supposedly it does. Would have been nice to know that in my 20s!
D-Hist (herbal anti histamine with NAC) works like a charm for that too.
 

sladerunner69

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Do you combine it with coffee/caffeine and other foods that had a warning in the oxidal thread? I think 100-200 mcg at once is safer.

I don't remember coming across any warning about caffiene. I drink 5 cups a day of french roast or even more! This forum is so pro-coffee with near unanimity that I couldn't imagine a drug being praised here that WOULD NOT go with caffiene. I mean, what the heck? I read through that thread for hours and then some before ordering the oxidal. Sometimes the information on this forum is so inconsistent that I realize what the mainstream trash health publications offer despite a foundation of trash science- consistency and solidarity.

This is just like the long term side effects of DMSO, which I was taking without worry for over a year until I noticed side effects.....

JC you just can't trust anything.
 

Terma

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What theanine helps reduce a hangover?
It raises glutathione in hepatocytes and improves the *hyde clearance enzymes a lot. yes. If I take too much too soon I lose the intoxication, it defeats drinking. I thought theanine was a garbage supplement, never would have bought again, but a company accidentally sent me a 1 kilogram bag for free.
 

papaya

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MB seems to give me some irritability as well as a slight headache...
try taking niacin when that happens. i think that might be symptoms of overmethylation. i know it's not known for it, but i do think that mb methylates. even when i've gotten edgy on it, i still never had blue urine which tells me that my body is using it. btw, i'm pretty sure that i'm an undermethylator.
 

sladerunner69

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try taking niacin when that happens. i think that might be symptoms of overmethylation. i know it's not known for it, but i do think that mb methylates. even when i've gotten edgy on it, i still never had blue urine which tells me that my body is using it. btw, i'm pretty sure that i'm an undermethylator.

Can you refer me to any educating literature on methylation? I'm not familiar with that process.
 

Wagner83

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try taking niacin when that happens. i think that might be symptoms of overmethylation. i know it's not known for it, but i do think that mb methylates. even when i've gotten edgy on it, i still never had blue urine which tells me that my body is using it. btw, i'm pretty sure that i'm an undermethylator.
I think @Travis mentioned this possibility in the past.
 

Travis

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Can you refer me to any educating literature on methylation? I'm not familiar with that process.
There's thousands of studies dealing with this. Methylation is thought to be mainly a function controlled by cobalamin, folate, pyroxidal, methionine, and niacin. Adenine, a nucleotide, can link with methione to form S‐adenosylmethionine (sulfur‐linked methionine); this is a cofactor for most methylation enzymes, which take the methylgroup and add it to an oxygen or a nitrogen. This can change the properties of neurotransmitters as seen in the case of melatonin (O‐methylserotonin), epinephrine (N‐methylnorepinephrine), and methoxytyramine (O‐methyldopamine). The amount of methylgroups on S‐adenosylmethionine is thought to represent the 'the labile methyl pool,' a mental construct used to represent methylation potential.

Folate can create one‐carbon methyl groups from amino acid serine and threonine, and is methionine‐independent. This is good that we have this, since de‐methylated methionine becomes homocysteine: a molecule unique in its ability to form a stable free radical which can cross the blood–brain barrier and induce lipid peroxidation. The correlation between homocysteine and lipid peroxidation products in the cerebrospinal fluid is starkingly good (~.92), as is the correlation between brain and plasma homocysteine. Down's syndrome is characterized by a genetic defect leading to roughly a 5× higher circulating homocysteine concentration, and familial hyperhomocysteinuria is also characterized by frank mental deficits. Although high methionine would conceivable lead to higher homocysteine, it can be re‐methylated so other factors are involved (i.e. folate, pyroxidal). Although rats fed higher than normal levels of methionine have greatly shortened lifespans (~44%) and increased weight, this is likely a function of methionines other product: polyamines. But luckily for them, these rat's high homocysteine levels likely inebriated them to the point of apathy (i.e. no longer even giving a damn about those extra polyamine‐induced pounds).

Cobalamin plays a role in methylation, and B₁₂ levels should be kept in range. A study published in nature, in the '80s, showed that cobalamin can be synthesized by bacteria in the small intestine. But since this is a main selling point for non‐vegan diets, and not highly‐studied, vitamin B₁₂ is still thought to be derived exclusively from animal foods. It should be noted that experimental vitamin B₁₂ deficiency in primates relied on an antibiotic.

Niacin forms a normal N‐methylated metabolite which is excreted through the kidneys. This is entirely normal, and used to determine niacin status in pellagrics. In this way, niacin consistently removes methyl groups from the body. As a vitamin, this could be the safest way to do this.

Choline and betaine donate methyl groups, while creatine spares them by eliminating the necessity of its own formation. Creatine requires one methyl group from the 'methyl pool.

Detoxifying homocysteine is important. The enzyme which does this is pyroxidal‐(B₆)‐dependent, a necessary cofactor for many other important enzymes.

Methane alone is a general anesthetic, and methyl groups generally seem to transform a biomolecule into a more anesthetic moiety (i.e. melatonin, methyoxytyrosine). I personally think that over‐methylation could perhaps lead to a more relaxed nervous system—a less jumpy individual.
 

papaya

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wow, thank you so much @Travis you really seem to understand methylation. i just discover that i had sky high serum b12 & folate so i suspect that i under methylate. do you have any advise on what i should do? at the time of the blood work i was taking high doses of iodine(not sure if that means anything) btw, selenomethionine makes me exhausted, does that have something to do with methionine?
 

Travis

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wow, thank you so much @Travis you really seem to understand methylation. i just discover that i had sky high serum b12 & folate so i suspect that i under methylate. do you have any advise on what i should do? at the time of the blood work i was taking high doses of iodine(not sure if that means anything) btw, selenomethionine makes me exhausted, does that have something to do with methionine?
Selenomethionine appears to be an entirely different animal. Methionine causes cell growth by becoming polyamines, but selenomethionine actually inhibits this.

Polyamines bind with DNA directly, and have been shown to increase replication during routine PCR amplification and in vitro cell studies. They also interact with microtubules—and extensive and rigid cellular structure that needs to be disassembled for mitosis to occur (cytoskeleton). The drug Taxol freezes microtubules by binding the strongly, preventing division and inhibiting cancer that way. This shows how important polyamines are, and how they are essential to the cell cycle. The enzyme which makes them, ornithine decarboxylase, is found elevated in ways which mirror the cell cycle.

Selenomethionine, apparently, inhibits polyamine production.

'The exact mechanism accounting for the ability of selenomethionine to decrease polyamine content is not entirely clear. However, several possibilities can account for the depressed polyamine content in apoptotic cells. The first possibility is that if SAM were being utilized for selenomethionine to be metabolized to a methylated and excretable derivative, SAM would be unavailable for decarboxylation required for polyam-ine biosynthesis. Overall, this would lead to a reduction of the intracellular polyamine levels in selenium treated cells. A second explanation could be that selenomethionine has inhibitory effects on key regulatory enzymes involved in polyamine anabolism and catabolism such as ornithine decarboxlase...' ―Redman

Betaine is a good methyl donor, and creatine spares methyl groups. I think inhibiting polyamine synthesis could be good for some people, but this is inhibiting growth and we must grow some. Androgens increase ornithine decarboxylase, and could very well be the reason they are anabolic. If you get too skinny, they cutting back on selenomethionine could be a good idea.

I think iodine should be take in amounts not in excess of the thyroid's capacity. The thyroid will concentrate iodide to the point that its oversaturated, a situation where increased lipid peroxidation is observed. The chemical reactions going from iodide, to iodine, then to iodinated tyrosine and thyroid hormone involve oxidations. The ability of molecular iodine (I₂) to inhibit cancer in cell culture in vitro appears to stem from its ability to iodinate fatty acids, to add to the double bonds. This could create a prostaglandin inhibitor, but would certainly make unavailable arachidonic acid for prostaglandin production (iodinated arachidonic acid cannot become prostaglandin E₂, a lipid hormone shown to increase cancer growth (perhaps by upregulating ornithine decarboxylase; it has been shown to do this).).

I think folate is always good, and should increase methylation in general. Besides folate, leaves have quite a bit of vitamins and minerals for their size. Spinach is good, but calcium availability is low. Arugula has nitrates, so perhaps best is kale—goitrogens not withstanding (which would not be a big deal for someone taking iodine or iodide, since thiocyanate (S–C≡N) in kale is only goitrogenic to the extent it displaces iodide).

If selenomethionine makes you tired, it could be from reduced polyamine synthesis. This would be my best guess. I think the best way to find out is to see if you either gain or lose weight, or muscle mass, while taking it.

There could be some other reason, but I can't think of any.
 
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