Methylene Blue (MB) Reverses Fatty Liver Disease

haidut

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This study was in mice, but the results were so positive that the authors are working in setting up a clinical trial of methylene blue for the treatment of fatty liver disease - a condition that afflicts approximately 40%-60% of the population in the USA. Many Peatarians also struggle with poor liver function and it slows down their recovery.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24486702

"...In mice fed on a high-fat diet for 8 weeks, MB treatment inhibited excessive hepatic fat accumulation and steatohepatitis. The ability of MB to activate SIRT1 promotes mitochondrial biogenesis and oxygen consumption and activates AMPK, contributing to anti-lipogenesis in the liver. Our results provide new information on the potential use of MB for the treatment of steatosis and steatohepatitis."


The human equivalent doses were 0.2mg/kg and 0.6mg/kg. The duration of the study was 4 weeks and methylene blue reversed the fatty liver parameters back to normal. Several things of note:

1. Both doses dramatically increased both NAD and NAD/NADH ratio. This may be the single most important marker of oxidative metabolism and overall health. You want as high of a ratio as possible and niacinamide is one of the few know methods to increase it. So, niacinamide and MB may be synergistic in this regard. The lower dose of MB increased NAD by a factor of 2 and the NAD/NADH ratio by a factor of 5. The higher dose increased NAD by a factor of 5 and the NAD/NADH ratio by a factor of 10. Most studies agree that it is the NAD/NADH ratio that matters and not so much the absolute levels but either way it looks like it is a win-win with MB with either dose.

2. The lower dose of MB was much more effective in stimulating mitochondrial biogenesis in the liver than the higher dose. On the other hand, the higher dose was much more effective in lowering triglycerides and other parameters of fatty liver than the lower dose. In addition, only the higher dose resulted in strong increase in oxygen consumption.

3. The low and high doses used in this study correspond very closely to the ones used in human studies in depression (15mg daily for 2 weeks) and Alzheimer Disease (60mg daily for 3 months). The lower dose seems to be better equipped at restoring activity of cytochrome C oxidase and stimulating mitochondrial biogenesis, which is what was proposed as the beneficial mechanism of action in the study on depression. The higher dose had very good effects in Alzheimer's and this is probably due to the increased oxygen consumption in the brain. If Alzheimer's is a diabetes-like disease then it is probably a state of chronic brain hypoxia. Hence, the beneficial effects of MB in doses that can increase oxygen consumption. If depression is a disease of abnormal mitochondrial activity, but not yet reaching hypoxia levels, then that would explain the lower dose and its benefits.
 

Spondive

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I find very interesting also. My liver enzymes were halved by eating a lower fat higher protein diet particularly from dairy and fruit and fruit juice but I added in 1000 mg of niacinamide and 1000 mg thiamine a day. This took 3-4 weeks..I might add a low dose of MB to this and recheck in a month
 

Nick Ireland

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Haidut, I can confirm after testing and retesting, that methylene blue is definitely increasing my mitochondrial activity. I'm using 1mg four times per day. It makes me feel alive, the brain fog is gone, it feels like I used to feel as a twenty something dude who couldn't wait for the weekends. The effect only lasts a few hours and I use it in combo with a Peat regime. Also, I am sleeping better when I use it that day and my libido is raised and persistent. This could explain why T3 alone does not as effectively for me as it does for others. I am going to continue with the goal of re-establishing my cytochrome c oxidase activity. I will certainly be under that 15mg level but will move up a few mgs to see how I react.
 

Nick Ireland

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Aquatic supplies. It's made in the UK where standards are pretty stringent. I've emailed them to make sure! At the store they have a water analyser which can check metals at PPM so I will take a sample to them as well as that from my niece' fish tank. Fish are seriously sensitive to their water. If the aquatic meth blue had ANY metals, it would easily compromise the tank levels which does kill fish. Just the tap water chloride in my niece's fish tank killed three fish by lowering their immune system. Aquatics is a serious business!
 

haidut

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Nick Ireland said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/91339/ I'm ordering from Haidut shortly, though. None of his customers are fish, that I know of :):

Lol, that's correct. The MB we use for Oxidal is USP-quality and is approved for human use.
Btw, great update Nick! I am glad MB is helping so much. The only thing I would add to that regimen is a little caffeine (as in Oxidal). Start with a lower dose caffeine (100mg) first and increase as needed.
WARNING: That "protocol" will cause uncoupling and will make you sweat buckets but it will also greatly add to that feeling of youth you describe and I have experienced myself. I personally get it from the 600mg caffeine doses I take a few times a day. Took me about a month to work up to that dose (1,500mg caffeine daily) but now I understand why all the animal studies use similar dose and why Peat himself takes more than 1,000mg caffeine daily. It makes you hot (literally) and young again and removes the need for any type of thyroid supplementation. I am even afraid to add aspirin now since caffeine by itself raises my temperatures so much...
 
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Gl;itch.e

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Sirt1 activation eh? Isn't this perhaps not an ideal response from the Peaty perspective?
 

sunmountain

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Hi Haidut,

I recently began to have thyroid working for me at effective doses, and am continuing to slowly increase it (t3 and t4). My methane sibo and its bloat is still there, though I think transit is slowly improving especially with t3.

From your post above, it seems you prefer MB over thyroid. May I ask why? Are there downsides to thyroid that MB does not have, or benefits to MB that thyroid cannot provide?

I am thrilled that thyroid is finally working for me. I'm still fiddling with the dosage, and expect it will take a few more weeks to get it right. I'm wondering if MB has a role if thyroid is working -- apart from the issue of using it for sibo which you recommended and I'm still considering, as nothing else has worked for it so far. I do also have a fatty liver, and don't know if that can be addressed by thyroid alone, or better in conjunction with MB once I settle on a dose for thyroid.

Thank you
 

Nick Ireland

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600mg caffeine dose? Here in the UK that is 12 x Pro Plus tablets. I need to shop around! A decent filter coffee is 150mg I think. Funnily enough, I bought a percolator yesterday and drank coffee all day. Slept better than usual and the actual effects didn't wear off until noon today. It appears to be cumulative. I think from a previous study you posted, the 5ar activation can last that long from a single large dose. If that's the case, DHT is great for a clear head, or the alloprgnenolone also metabolised by 5ar is having the same effect?
 

haidut

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sunmountain said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97777/ Hi Haidut,

I recently began to have thyroid working for me at effective doses, and am continuing to slowly increase it (t3 and t4). My methane sibo and its bloat is still there, though I think transit is slowly improving especially with t3.

From your post above, it seems you prefer MB over thyroid. May I ask why? Are there downsides to thyroid that MB does not have, or benefits to MB that thyroid cannot provide?

I am thrilled that thyroid is finally working for me. I'm still fiddling with the dosage, and expect it will take a few more weeks to get it right. I'm wondering if MB has a role if thyroid is working -- apart from the issue of using it for sibo which you recommended and I'm still considering, as nothing else has worked for it so far. I do also have a fatty liver, and don't know if that can be addressed by thyroid alone, or better in conjunction with MB once I settle on a dose for thyroid.

Thank you

If thyroid is working for you I would not mess with it. I am one of the people for whom thyroid was always hit or miss and I always got better response with thyroid "surrogates" so to speak, including caffeine. Ray said that MB works like thyroid in sub-milligram doses and I prefer it b/c thyroid is a hormone and it leads to the suppression of the natural production of thyroid form your own gland. In some cases this is the only option that works, but in my case I get better results from MB and caffeine and I also prefer to not inhibit natural thyroid synthesis. This is the reason I do not like supplementing with steroids at the end of the pathways since they all have negative feedback mechanisms and suppress endogenous production. Pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA do not have such drawbacks AFAIK.
So, bottom line - caffeine and MB work better for me than thyroid in terms of temperature, pulse and energy. And caffeine is hugely dopaminergic for me, which is something thyroid does not do.
Everybody is different, so if thyroid works for you I'd stick with it.
 
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haidut said:
If thyroid is working for you I would not mess with it. I am one of the people for whom thyroid was always hit or miss and I always got better response with thyroid "surrogates" so to speak, including caffeine. Ray said that MB works like thyroid in sub-milligram doses and I prefer it b/c thyroid is a hormone and it leads to the suppression of the natural production of thyroid form your own gland. In some cases this is the only option that works, but in my case I get better results from MB and caffeine and I also prefer to not inhibit natural thyroid synthesis. This is the reason I do not like supplementing with steroids at the end of the pathways since they all have negative feedback mechanisms and suppress endogenous production. Pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA do not have such drawbacks AFAIK.
So, bottom line - caffeine and MB work better for me than thyroid in terms of temperature, pulse and energy. And caffeine is hugely dopaminergic for me, which is something thyroid does not do.
Everybody is different, so if thyroid works for you I'd stick with it.

We are alike :cool:
 

haidut

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Nick Ireland said:
Methylene Blue (MB) Reverses Fatty Liver Disease 600mg caffeine dose? Here in the UK that is 12 x Pro Plus tablets. I need to shop around! A decent filter coffee is 150mg I think. Funnily enough, I bought a percolator yesterday and drank coffee all day. Slept better than usual and the actual effects didn't wear off until noon today. It appears to be cumulative. I think from a previous study you posted, the 5ar activation can last that long from a single large dose. If that's the case, DHT is great for a clear head, or the alloprgnenolone also metabolised by 5ar is having the same effect?

Yeah, both allopregnanolone and DHT are cognitive enhancers, and a single largish dose of caffeine can keep them coming for 24 hours or more. DHT is often used in retirement homes in US as an off-label nootropic for dementia patients that need to be functional around visiting relatives. I have always wondered why nobody has tried pregnenolone or DHEA on these people. It should have a very positive effect.
I take caffeine capsules, from www.nutrabio.com and and I think they ship to UK as well
Such_Saturation said:
Methylene Blue (MB) Reverses Fatty Liver Disease
haidut said:
If thyroid is working for you I would not mess with it. I am one of the people for whom thyroid was always hit or miss and I always got better response with thyroid "surrogates" so to speak, including caffeine. Ray said that MB works like thyroid in sub-milligram doses and I prefer it b/c thyroid is a hormone and it leads to the suppression of the natural production of thyroid form your own gland. In some cases this is the only option that works, but in my case I get better results from MB and caffeine and I also prefer to not inhibit natural thyroid synthesis. This is the reason I do not like supplementing with steroids at the end of the pathways since they all have negative feedback mechanisms and suppress endogenous production. Pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA do not have such drawbacks AFAIK.
So, bottom line - caffeine and MB work better for me than thyroid in terms of temperature, pulse and energy. And caffeine is hugely dopaminergic for me, which is something thyroid does not do.
Everybody is different, so if thyroid works for you I'd stick with it.

We are alike :cool:
. Each capsule is 200mg and I take 3 capsules a few times daily.
Such_Saturation said:
Methylene Blue (MB) Reverses Fatty Liver Disease
haidut said:
If thyroid is working for you I would not mess with it. I am one of the people for whom thyroid was always hit or miss and I always got better response with thyroid "surrogates" so to speak, including caffeine. Ray said that MB works like thyroid in sub-milligram doses and I prefer it b/c thyroid is a hormone and it leads to the suppression of the natural production of thyroid form your own gland. In some cases this is the only option that works, but in my case I get better results from MB and caffeine and I also prefer to not inhibit natural thyroid synthesis. This is the reason I do not like supplementing with steroids at the end of the pathways since they all have negative feedback mechanisms and suppress endogenous production. Pregnenolone, progesterone, and DHEA do not have such drawbacks AFAIK.
So, bottom line - caffeine and MB work better for me than thyroid in terms of temperature, pulse and energy. And caffeine is hugely dopaminergic for me, which is something thyroid does not do.
Everybody is different, so if thyroid works for you I'd stick with it.

We are alike :cool:

Why am I not surprised?? :):
How much caffeine do you take/drink?
 
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haidut said:
Why am I not surprised?? :):
How much caffeine do you take/drink?

Half a gram per day (rigorously with B6) plus the random coffee, but I have been cutting back for the Summer, as long as I can keep some fat soluble vitamins and the occasional aspirin in me I feel quite good without caffeine. But it's been 28°C on cold days. When I first cut back it felt so nice having the blood gush through my brain again... there is definitely something restrictive going on with the caffeine. And now I have this DHEA which is rocking my socks off :ss
 

haidut

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Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97881/
haidut said:
Why am I not surprised?? :):
How much caffeine do you take/drink?

Half a gram per day (rigorously with B6) plus the random coffee, but I have been cutting back for the Summer, as long as I can keep some fat soluble vitamins and the occasional aspirin in me I feel quite good without caffeine. But it's been 28°C on cold days. When I first cut back it felt so nice having the blood gush through my brain again... there is definitely something restrictive going on with the caffeine. And now I have this DHEA which is rocking my socks off :ss

Sweet, and especially in combination with B6. Are you taking B6 to reduce cortisol or just b/c of its dopaminergic qualities? Did you know that B6 is also an estrogen antagonist - i.e. acts directly on the estrogen "receptor"?
 
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haidut said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97893/
Such_Saturation said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/97881/
haidut said:
Why am I not surprised?? :):
How much caffeine do you take/drink?

Half a gram per day (rigorously with B6) plus the random coffee, but I have been cutting back for the Summer, as long as I can keep some fat soluble vitamins and the occasional aspirin in me I feel quite good without caffeine. But it's been 28°C on cold days. When I first cut back it felt so nice having the blood gush through my brain again... there is definitely something restrictive going on with the caffeine. And now I have this DHEA which is rocking my socks off :ss

Sweet, and especially in combination with B6. Are you taking B6 to reduce cortisol or just b/c of its dopaminergic qualities? Did you know that B6 is also an estrogen antagonist - i.e. acts directly on the estrogen "receptor"?

I'm not surprised it can do that! I started taking it because it complemented caffeine so well. Originally I was trying to recreate coffee in a pill (caffeine, B6, tyrosine, noopept, theanine, etc.) but it never really was the same as good coffee. But overall I'm playing around with being less and less reliant on calf liver.
 
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RPDiciple

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Haidut: how much sugar or meal of sugar/protein do you need to have for each 600mg dose to not get a stress reaction'?
 

Makrosky

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haidut said:
Nick Ireland said:
https://raypeatforum.com/forums/posts/91339/ I'm ordering from Haidut shortly, though. None of his customers are fish, that I know of :):

Lol, that's correct. The MB we use for Oxidal is USP-quality and is approved for human use.
Btw, great update Nick! I am glad MB is helping so much. The only thing I would add to that regimen is a little caffeine (as in Oxidal). Start with a lower dose caffeine (100mg) first and increase as needed.
WARNING: That "protocol" will cause uncoupling and will make you sweat buckets but it will also greatly add to that feeling of youth you describe and I have experienced myself. I personally get it from the 600mg caffeine doses I take a few times a day. Took me about a month to work up to that dose (1,500mg caffeine daily) but now I understand why all the animal studies use similar dose and why Peat himself takes more than 1,000mg caffeine daily. It makes you hot (literally) and young again and removes the need for any type of thyroid supplementation. I am even afraid to add aspirin now since caffeine by itself raises my temperatures so much...

Hey haidut, could you please elaborate a little bit more on the relation about uncoupling of the mithocondria and sweating a lot ?

Is sweating good in a context of increasing metabolism ? Does it stop once metabolism is restored ?

Thanks in advance man.
 
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