Methylene blue causing cold sores?

[I'm.No.One]

I dug but couldn't find anything so figured I'd ask, anyone know why MB would cause cold sores?

The first day I took MB I felt good, upbeat, energized but not stimulated.

Then a little cold sore popped up, not agressive, didn't come to a head. Has faded away now.

Next day, took another dose (2 drops) then sure enough another cold sore popped up, this time bigger/different area of my lip. Again didn't come to a head & is calming down.

Took a 3rd dose today & nothing yet.

The first one is completely calmed/gone wasn't even around long enough to make a "sore", second one looks like it will be that way too.

Any ideas as to why MB would stimulate the dormant simplex virus that's living in my lip nerve endings?

I usually only get them when I'm under tremendous stress & just keep pushing myself. Then they're usually pretty bad, for sure don't just calm down/go away the next day.

I also don't think it's the MB simply preventing an outbreak, it for sure correlated with me taking the MB because I'm actually not under a ton of stress & cypro has been helping with that tremendously (I'm aware of the debate about taking MB & cypro at the same time, feel comfortable with my decision.)

Thoughts?

 

[Ben.]

MB energizes me aswell and does alot of good for quite a few symptoms.

However my oral health which was already in bad shape completly broke out and im inflammed all over with 2 mouth ulcers to go along with it. Stomache too.
Feels as if i energize my body but at the same time put it under excessive stress. It's antimicrobial. Perhaps it messed with some biofilms? Or it caused overwhelming oxidative stress? Messing with the gluthatione redox cycle? Increased hydrogen peroxide? Increased serotonin?

Having a similar question i searched the forum and found stuff like this:

I found a study testing MB use as a treatment for Covid-19 and I was surprised to read the oxidized (dark blue) version was not used because as this paper states it exacerbates the oxidative stress of Covid-19. Does anyone know more about the effects of taking reduced vs oxidized MB?

Methylene Blue for Treatment of Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients: A Randomized, Controlled, Open-Label Clinical Trial, Phase 2 | Revista de Investigación Clínica

Background: There is no pharmacological intervention on the treatment of hypoxemia and respiratory distress in COVID-19 patients. Objective: The objective...

clinicalandtranslationalinvestigation.com

In this study, after the administration of MB (the reduced form, colorless), the color of urine and feces of patients turned to green or blue. Patients whose urine or feces had the green color, recovered (35 patients), but five patients who had dark blue color in urine or feces died. In our previous trial, we demonstrated high oxidative stress in COVID-19 patients3. When MB (oxidized form, dark blue) is orally administered, by oxidizing other antioxidants, it is converted to the reduced form (colorless)19, which is excreted primarily in the urine20. Therefore, the oxidized form of MB exacerbates the oxidative stress in COVID-19 patients, worsening hypoxemia. However, the reduced form of MB, as an antioxidant, quenches the oxidative stress and also decreases hypoxemia by converting the ferric to the ferrous ion in hemoglobin.

Hope the title got your attention. I’m not making the claim, the authors of this paper are (in context of acute and very serious infection):

The Application of a Reduced Dye Used in Orthopedics as a Novel Treatment against Coronavirus (COVID-19): A Suggested Therapeutic Protocol

These researchers suggest an IV cocktail of the clear leucomethylene blue reduced by vitamin C, as well as urea (the reason they include it is interesting), and a glutathione supportive antioxidant like NAC or lipoic acid. They are quite clear about why NOT to use regular oxidized M.B.:



So I’m not an expert on antioxidant/oxidants, but it seems like regular M.B. can be risky in status of high inflammation like cytokine storm with acute infection. Damaged / dead cells don’t reduce M.B. to leucomethylene blue and in a state of high oxidative stress the extra burden of using the oxidized M.B. form can be a bad idea.

This seems to fit with my experience. When I gave someone high doses of M.B. when dealing with tail end of respiratory infection, it noticeably increased their congestion and discomfort. I think this had something to do with increased oxidative stress in an already high inflammation state, and some sort of serotonin cascade as a result.

The above paper advocating Leucomethylene blue contrasts the reccomendation of this doctor Treatment for COVID-19 using Methylene Blue , who advocates regular MB nebulization for covid prevention and post treatment.

I wonder if a nebuluzed solution containing leucomethylene blue and dehydroascorbic acid will be better for treating respiratory infection? The addition of NAC as a nebulized mucolytic could help break up mucus and get the solution deeper into lung as well to extert purported animicrobial and anti-inflammatory effect. I’m not sure how much the oxidized vs reduced state of M.B. changes the potential antimicrobial, antiviral effect.

What i found quite interesting aswell was this:

... it’s usually from either compression or from the valves in the veins that are supposed to prevent back-flow not working properly (i.e. the valves “getting blown out”, similar to vericose veins in the lower leg that can develop).

Anything that increases blood flow and eNOS is going to help with it. When ray talks about the dangers of NO, what he should qualify that with is iNOS and nNOS, which can be damaging. Proper eNOS production in the vasculature is vital, becuase if eNOS malfunctions or gets “uncoupled”, it starts producing superoxide instead, a highly reactive free radical.

Methylene blue is a Guanylyl Cyclase Inhibitor, which inhibits the formation of the second messenger to NO from eNOS: cGMP. Through this, it can inhibit vasodilation and proper blood flow.

 

[I'm.No.One]

MB energizes me aswell and does alot of good for quite a few symptoms.

However my oral health which was already in bad shape completly broke out and im inflammed all over with 2 mouth ulcers to go along with it. Stomache too.
Feels as if i energize my body but at the same time put it under excessive stress. It's antimicrobial. Perhaps it messed with some biofilms? Or it caused overwhelming oxidative stress? Messing with the gluthatione redox cycle? Increased hydrogen peroxide? Increased serotonin?

Having a similar question i searched the forum and found stuff like this:






What i found quite interesting aswell was this:

Thanks for these, I'll dig in.

 

[steel_reserve]

I used oxidal as a mouthwash. Definitely increased sores in my mouth but they didnt hurt.

 

[Ben.]

Here's another quote, which might just translate to more serotonin and increased inflammation (?) due to MAO-A inhibition.

MAOIs are bad because even though they reduce the degradation of dopamine, they also reduce the degradation of serotonin which can lead to gut problems, inflammation, and mental illness.

Now obviously this is a very reductionistic statement but maybe increased gut/systemic inflammation expresses itself in cold sore specifically in the biochemical reaction that happense within your body with Methylene Blue (?).

Or as the leucomethyleneblue post mentioned it might be that thoose cells in particular are not able to reduce the Methylene Blue.
Maybe worth it in the name off science for you to try and reduce the methylene blue first and make it "clear" and see if it then provokes the sores aswell.

 

[I'm.No.One]

Here's another quote, which might just translate to more serotonin and increased inflammation (?) due to MAO-A inhibition.



Now obviously this is a very reductionistic statement but increased gut/systemic inflammation expresses itself in cold sore specifically in the biochemical reaction that happense within your body with Methylene Blue maybe (?).

Or as the leucomethyleneblue post mentioned it might be that thoose cells in particular are not able to reduce the Methylene Blue.
Maybe worth it in the name off science for you to try and reduce the methylene blue first and make it "clear" and see if it then provokes the sores aswell.

Well it's day 4 & no more sores, the second one that came up is fully gone. Which is actually pretty crazy.

 

[Ben.]

Well it's day 4 & no more sores, the second one that came up is fully gone. Which is actually pretty crazy.

You are still taking the dye and it resolved anyhow? nice.

Interestingly i found another member reporting sore throats from MB.