Methylation Tied To Cancer (again)

haidut

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Ray has written about this and I have also posted studies in the past. I have noticed that in the last couple of years the message has been getting stronger - i.e. methylation is a big factor in cancer. Hopefully, the field will move away from the completely genetic explanation of cancer as more knowledge on the matter accumulates.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2 ... ancer.html
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar ... 3512000547

"...Baylin agrees. "You don't know if the p16 triggered a series of events that were tied to a genetic mutation," he says. "So you can't rule out that it still requires collaboration with a genetic change." Either way, it doesn't really matter, says Bird. The study shows definitively that methylation contributes to cancer. "So whether it's the primary cause or not, it may well be an Achilles' heel of cancer – one that we can reverse.""

"...If epigenetic changes do drive cancer, there are several ways to potentially flip the switch in the opposite direction. "The coolest thing from an environmental perspective is that we can ask whether diet can influence this epigenetic process," says Shen. That's because methyl groups that switch genes on and off epigenetically are not synthesised by the body, they can come from folate in our diet, for example. There is some evidence that dietary changes can accelerate methylation or promote de-methylation."
 

pboy

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this seems like a highly complex system...I don't know what types of methyl donors are good or harmful and the various pathways. I hear a lot about certain methyl donors being good for a lot of things, especially choline. I wonder if its just that an excess of any of them is bad. Deficiencies of b6, b12, folate, choline, (betain), all seem to affect mood, liver health, metabolism, growth, and a lot more...lead to anemia if too low. How does Ray see it?

I find it interesting that his diet seems to cover all the necessary amounts of these but doesn't go that much over
 

bradley

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If I take even tiny amounts of a glutathione based supplement (any form), MSM, or eat eggs regularly, I smell strongly of sulphur. I was wondering if this means I'm an overmethylator or if its even that simple.
 

Suikerbuik

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There's a shift occurring already. What is being used: illumina 450k, but this is not cheap.

As said above, the complexity of the methylation system is far from understood. To get an impression what might be involved and how things are regulated: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24808866 (note that the VDR is just 1 protein...)
 

Nikki

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Hi. Hoping to revive this for a bit. Let me make one thing clear- I do not understand methylation in the least.

Now that that is out of the way, can I get an opinion on whether or not MSM or DMSO are helpful or harmful in treatment/prevention of cancer? I know many cancer clinics use it to treat cancers but I am not sure if all "cancers" are similar enough that we should be lumping them together as one thing.

Before I copy what I found on the nutrition and healing website, I wanted to say that my dog (a senior), has been on high dose MSM for a long time. For much of the time he was on what I wold call megadoses (1tsp 2xday for 50lb dog). Aside from shedding like crazy (and regrowing the hair) he is very healthy. He has hypothyroidism which he had before he started to get MSM with any regularity or in large doses. I don't think the MSM reduces his thyroid function, but it is my suspicion that it could in some bodies. In his case, he sheds like crazy which is a trait of hypothyroidism, but he grows it back before it can be missed which is definitely not a symptom. The MSM keeps his joints limber and seems to help his skin. I recently cut down to 1/2 tsp 2x day to reduce his shedding and it had a near immediate effect. He still sheds a lot more than the other pets but it is now about 1/3 of what it was. His coat is soft, his energy level is good, his eyesight is good (and eyes look healthy), his hearing is not great but seems to be holding (for the past couple years) at what I estimate to be about 60% of normal. If he does not get MSM, he has vertigo. The MSM is a definite factor in his ability to feel oriented, but I am not sure why. He still has gray hairs and these are what give away his age. He chases young dogs at the beach and feels great as long as he gets plenty of MSM and, more recently Vitamin C. His joints are in great condition, except those on one leg which were affected by trauma. The vitamin C addd in the last few months has helped to be able to use that leg again.

An article makes this claim but it comes with a foootnote tht I haven't matched to a study (yet):"A report from the University of Connecticut Medical School in 2013 found that MSM morphed cancer tissue into normal breast tissue. This change to normal was maintained during long-term culture of the tissue.1"

And this claim which I did find the study for: "“Surprisingly, we found that malignant melanoma cells exposed to methyl sulfone demonstrated the loss of phenotypes characteristic of malignant cells, and the reemergence of phenotypes characteristic of healthy melanocytes.” 1
( Cancer. 1988 Sep 1;62(5):944-8. Use of polar solvents in chemoprevention of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced colon cancer. O'Dwyer PJ1, McCabe DP, Sickle-Santanello BJ, Woltering EA, Clausen K, Martin EW Jr.
Author information Department of Surgery, Ohio State University College of Medicine, Columbus 43210.)

"But the first indicator that MSM might be a useful tool in the fight against cancer goes back much further than that, to 1988 at Ohio State University. Researchers injected rats with the carcinogen di-methylhydrazine (DMH) and the length of time before actual tumor formation was measured: “The average time to tumor onset was significantly delayed in rats receiving….MSM (p = 0.0398). In addition, fewer poorly differentiated tumors were noted in treatment groups. These findings… indicate the need to further investigate such compounds as chemopreventive agents.”6 The scientists had confirmed that MSM wasn’t just a potential treatment for cancer, but a potential prevention tool, too!"

So- MSM and DMSO- are they good for fighting cancer or is cancer makign this up to trick us?

Confused.
 
OP
haidut

haidut

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Hi. Hoping to revive this for a bit. Let me make one thing clear- I do not understand methylation in the least.

Now that that is out of the way, can I get an opinion on whether or not MSM or DMSO are helpful or harmful in treatment/prevention of cancer? I know many cancer clinics use it to treat cancers but I am not sure if all "cancers" are similar enough that we should be lumping them together as one thing.

Before I copy what I found on the nutrition and healing website, I wanted to say that my dog (a senior), has been on high dose MSM for a long time. For much of the time he was on what I wold call megadoses (1tsp 2xday for 50lb dog). Aside from shedding like crazy (and regrowing the hair) he is very healthy. He has hypothyroidism which he had before he started to get MSM with any regularity or in large doses. I don't think the MSM reduces his thyroid function, but it is my suspicion that it could in some bodies. In his case, he sheds like crazy which is a trait of hypothyroidism, but he grows it back before it can be missed which is definitely not a symptom. The MSM keeps his joints limber and seems to help his skin. I recently cut down to 1/2 tsp 2x day to reduce his shedding and it had a near immediate effect. He still sheds a lot more than the other pets but it is now about 1/3 of what it was. His coat is soft, his energy level is good, his eyesight is good (and eyes look healthy), his hearing is not great but seems to be holding (for the past couple years) at what I estimate to be about 60% of normal. If he does not get MSM, he has vertigo. The MSM is a definite factor in his ability to feel oriented, but I am not sure why. He still has gray hairs and these are what give away his age. He chases young dogs at the beach and feels great as long as he gets plenty of MSM and, more recently Vitamin C. His joints are in great condition, except those on one leg which were affected by trauma. The vitamin C addd in the last few months has helped to be able to use that leg again.

An article makes this claim but it comes with a foootnote tht I haven't matched to a study (yet):"A report from the University of Connecticut Medical School in 2013 found that MSM morphed cancer tissue into normal breast tissue. This change to normal was maintained during long-term culture of the tissue.1"

And this claim which I did find the study for: "“Surprisingly, we found that malignant melanoma cells exposed to methyl sulfone demonstrated the loss of phenotypes characteristic of malignant cells, and the reemergence of phenotypes characteristic of healthy melanocytes.” 1
( Cancer. 1988 Sep 1;62(5):944-8. Use of polar solvents in chemoprevention of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced colon cancer. O'Dwyer PJ1, McCabe DP, Sickle-Santanello BJ, Woltering EA, Clausen K, Martin EW Jr.
Author information Department of Surgery, Ohio State University College of Medicine, Columbus 43210.)

"But the first indicator that MSM might be a useful tool in the fight against cancer goes back much further than that, to 1988 at Ohio State University. Researchers injected rats with the carcinogen di-methylhydrazine (DMH) and the length of time before actual tumor formation was measured: “The average time to tumor onset was significantly delayed in rats receiving….MSM (p = 0.0398). In addition, fewer poorly differentiated tumors were noted in treatment groups. These findings… indicate the need to further investigate such compounds as chemopreventive agents.”6 The scientists had confirmed that MSM wasn’t just a potential treatment for cancer, but a potential prevention tool, too!"

So- MSM and DMSO- are they good for fighting cancer or is cancer makign this up to trick us?

Confused.

I think this is a great question for Peat. He used to be a lot more positive about DMSO but given the flurry or emails he got about DMSO safety not long ago he seems to have tried to distance himself from it. He also seems to not like MSM much. Maybe if you ask him he will elaborate more. MSM seems to be preferentially accumulated by melanoma cells, which could be either a protective mechanism or something that makes these cells grow more. So, a question specifically on that would be great for Peat I think.
Methylsulfonylmethane - Wikipedia
"...It is also commonly found in the atmosphere above marine areas, where it is used as a carbon source by the airborne bacteria Afipia,[3] and is found distinctively in human melanoma cells.[4]"

I think MSM is just a more stable (oxidized) metabolite of DMSO, so one get it from DMSO supplementation as well and many studies claims that the positive effects of DMSO are probably due to metabolizing into MSM. The one reference from Peat I have seen though seemed to suggest he was not very keen on it. But maybe this has changed as well, in light of new evidence. If he does respond please share here.
 

Nikki

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This is what he had written when I mentioned I was giving both to my cat along with colloidal silver: "I doubt that MSM, DMSO, and silver are helpful". He didn't say he thought they would be harmful.

I'm not really sure how to go about emailing him in such a way as to yield an informative response. Does he want to be paid or not? I had offered to pay him the first time I emailed him but he didn't even acknowledge my offer when he replied with answers to my questions. I offered payment one more time, but he didn't respond at all. So either he's offended, too busy, doesn't have the answers, not as nice as he seems, or ( ????). My friend talks to him all the time so I will ask her if she feels comfortable asking him. I thank you for suggesting I do this rather than fabricating a reality based on your beliefs.

Given DMSO and MSM's radioprotective effects, even if it did seem to contribute to cancers by contributing to methylation, it might be more helpful than harmful in an area with moderate to high levels of radiation. As with most medicine, it probably won't be a black and white answer.

I'll let you know if I get an anwer.

Nik
 

Wagner83

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It just means that whether you send him money or not is up to you, just like answering certain emails only and ignoring others is up to him.
He didn't say they were not harmful either.
 
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Evidence for msm slowing or stopping or reversing cancer

N,N-Dimethylformamide-induced Alteration of Cell Culture Characteristics and Loss of Tumorigenicity in Cultured Human Colon Carcinoma Cells
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/39/3/1020.short
Human colon carcinoma cell lines established in this laboratory were treated in vitro with N,N-dimethylformamide. This polar solvent caused morphological changes in the cells as well as alterations in their growth properties. Untreated cells had cloning efficiencies of up to 77% in soft agar; treatment with N,N-dimethylformamide resulted in a complete loss of clonogenicity in semisolid medium. Growth in the presence of the polar solvent also effected a marked reduction in the tumorigenicity of the cells. Ten of ten nude mice that received a s.c. inoculum of 1 × 106 untreated cells developed tumors histologically similar to colonic adenocarcinomas in 10 to 14 days, whereas nine of ten nude mice inoculated with 1 × 106 treated cells have shown no sign of tumor 3 to 6 months postinjection. Removal of the polar solvent from the culture medium was accompanied by the reappearance of tumorigenicity and the original cell culture characteristics. Therefore, it appears that N,N-dimethylformamide can reversibly effect the reversion of cultured human colon carcinoma cells to less malignant cell types.


Use of polar solvents in chemoprevention of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced colon cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3409175
To examine the effect of the polar solvents on 1,2-dimethylhydrazine (DMH)-induced colon cancer, 100 male Sprague-Dawley rats were randomly allocated to a control and three treatment groups. Treated animals received N-methylformamide (NMF), dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), or methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) added to drinking water 1 week before carcinogen injections commenced and for the duration of the experiment. Primary tumors were detected by serial laparotomy under ether anesthesia performed at 2-month intervals and commencing after carcinogen injections had been completed. The average time to tumor onset was significantly delayed in rats receiving NMF and MSM (P = 0.0141 and 0.0398 respectively, Mantel-Haenszel test). In addition, fewer poorly differentiated tumors were noted in treatment groups. No weight loss or toxicity was observed. These findings demonstrate that the polar solvents significantly reduce the latent period to tumor onset in DMH-induced colon cancer and indicate the need to further investigate such compounds as chemopreventive agents.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
10,501
Evidence for msm slowing or stopping or reversing cancer

N,N-Dimethylformamide-induced Alteration of Cell Culture Characteristics and Loss of Tumorigenicity in Cultured Human Colon Carcinoma Cells
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/39/3/1020.short
Human colon carcinoma cell lines established in this laboratory were treated in vitro with N,N-dimethylformamide. This polar solvent caused morphological changes in the cells as well as alterations in their growth properties. Untreated cells had cloning efficiencies of up to 77% in soft agar; treatment with N,N-dimethylformamide resulted in a complete loss of clonogenicity in semisolid medium. Growth in the presence of the polar solvent also effected a marked reduction in the tumorigenicity of the cells. Ten of ten nude mice that received a s.c. inoculum of 1 × 106 untreated cells developed tumors histologically similar to colonic adenocarcinomas in 10 to 14 days, whereas nine of ten nude mice inoculated with 1 × 106 treated cells have shown no sign of tumor 3 to 6 months postinjection. Removal of the polar solvent from the culture medium was accompanied by the reappearance of tumorigenicity and the original cell culture characteristics. Therefore, it appears that N,N-dimethylformamide can reversibly effect the reversion of cultured human colon carcinoma cells to less malignant cell types.


Use of polar solvents in chemoprevention of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced colon cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3409175
To examine the effect of the polar solvents on 1,2-dimethylhydrazine (DMH)-induced colon cancer, 100 male Sprague-Dawley rats were randomly allocated to a control and three treatment groups. Treated animals received N-methylformamide (NMF), dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), or methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) added to drinking water 1 week before carcinogen injections commenced and for the duration of the experiment. Primary tumors were detected by serial laparotomy under ether anesthesia performed at 2-month intervals and commencing after carcinogen injections had been completed. The average time to tumor onset was significantly delayed in rats receiving NMF and MSM (P = 0.0141 and 0.0398 respectively, Mantel-Haenszel test). In addition, fewer poorly differentiated tumors were noted in treatment groups. No weight loss or toxicity was observed. These findings demonstrate that the polar solvents significantly reduce the latent period to tumor onset in DMH-induced colon cancer and indicate the need to further investigate such compounds as chemopreventive agents.
 
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
10,501
Evidence for msm slowing or stopping or reversing cancer

N,N-Dimethylformamide-induced Alteration of Cell Culture Characteristics and Loss of Tumorigenicity in Cultured Human Colon Carcinoma Cells
http://cancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/39/3/1020.short
Human colon carcinoma cell lines established in this laboratory were treated in vitro with N,N-dimethylformamide. This polar solvent caused morphological changes in the cells as well as alterations in their growth properties. Untreated cells had cloning efficiencies of up to 77% in soft agar; treatment with N,N-dimethylformamide resulted in a complete loss of clonogenicity in semisolid medium. Growth in the presence of the polar solvent also effected a marked reduction in the tumorigenicity of the cells. Ten of ten nude mice that received a s.c. inoculum of 1 × 106 untreated cells developed tumors histologically similar to colonic adenocarcinomas in 10 to 14 days, whereas nine of ten nude mice inoculated with 1 × 106 treated cells have shown no sign of tumor 3 to 6 months postinjection. Removal of the polar solvent from the culture medium was accompanied by the reappearance of tumorigenicity and the original cell culture characteristics. Therefore, it appears that N,N-dimethylformamide can reversibly effect the reversion of cultured human colon carcinoma cells to less malignant cell types.


Use of polar solvents in chemoprevention of 1,2-dimethylhydrazine-induced colon cancer
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3409175
To examine the effect of the polar solvents on 1,2-dimethylhydrazine (DMH)-induced colon cancer, 100 male Sprague-Dawley rats were randomly allocated to a control and three treatment groups. Treated animals received N-methylformamide (NMF), dimethylsulfoxide (DMSO), or methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) added to drinking water 1 week before carcinogen injections commenced and for the duration of the experiment. Primary tumors were detected by serial laparotomy under ether anesthesia performed at 2-month intervals and commencing after carcinogen injections had been completed. The average time to tumor onset was significantly delayed in rats receiving NMF and MSM (P = 0.0141 and 0.0398 respectively, Mantel-Haenszel test). In addition, fewer poorly differentiated tumors were noted in treatment groups. No weight loss or toxicity was observed. These findings demonstrate that the polar solvents significantly reduce the latent period to tumor onset in DMH-induced colon cancer and indicate the need to further investigate such compounds as chemopreventive agents.
 

peep

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Aug 8, 2017
Messages
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9:30 colon cancer cell & methylation.

&Gprotein recepter, which is activated by butyrate & niacin, induces apoptosis, and protects against inflammation-induced colon cancer.
 

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