Metergoline vs Lisuride vs Diamant vs Bromantane

[AndrogenicJB]

I a

Using supplements to enhance a natty state will make such a minor difference in muscle growth compared to steroids. If you're not making gains fast with gym (in the first 5-6 years), there is most likely still things you can optimize.

I am making gains in the gym and I am not looking to enhance them, just trying to create a more androgenic anti-stress environment on top off diet for experimentation purposes. I have diet on point imo. Androgenic effects extend beyond muscle hypertrophy

 

[Hans]

I a

I am making gains in the gym and I am not looking to enhance them, just trying to create a more androgenic anti-stress environment on top off diet for experimentation purposes. I have diet on point imo. Androgenic effects extend beyond muscle hypertrophy

I see. Sure yes, dopaminergic is good. DHT is even better imo, since it has pro-GABA and pro-dopamine effects. To optimize DHT, consume milk, eggs, oysters and carbs. Also, exercise in the sun frequently, that will help.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

I see. Sure yes, dopaminergic is good. DHT is even better imo, since it has pro-GABA and pro-dopamine effects. To optimize DHT, consume milk, eggs, oysters and carbs. Also, exercise in the sun frequently, that will help.

Already consuming those, except oysters quite expensive. How should a 17/18 year old use androsterone/ 5a-DHP/Diamant for experimentation purposed to get benefits with minimum effective dose and avoid suppression/side effects --- once every couple of days -- if I cycle it will my natural production go down or return to baseline---

 

[Hans]

Already consuming those, except oysters quite expensive. How should a 17/18 year old use androsterone/ 5a-DHP/Diamant for experimentation purposed to get benefits with minimum effective dose and avoid suppression/side effects --- once every couple of days -- if I cycle it will my natural production go down or return to baseline---

Diamant should not cause any suppression, so I'd go with that one first. Gonadin is also good and I think you're using that. Higher doses K2 orally. Small amounts on the scrotum perhaps.
Maybe 1mg 11-keto DHT every day or every other day.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

Diamant should not cause any suppression, so I'd go with that one first. Gonadin is also good and I think you're using that. Higher doses K2 orally. Small amounts on the scrotum perhaps.
Maybe 1mg 11-keto DHT every day or every other day.

does 11keto work by temprarily replacing your own hormones or does it boost your own until you stop using it? Should diamant be cycled due to downregulation of dopamine receptors. Thanks for quick replies

 

[Hans]

does 11keto work by temprarily replacing your own hormones or does it boost your own until you stop using it? Should diamant be cycled due to downregulation of dopamine receptors. Thanks for quick replies

11-keto DHT has equal affinity to the AR compared to DHT, so it can be suppressive. But I'm sure that in low doses it will not be. I use 1mg in my navel, so let's say I absorb 80% (which might be very unlikely; more like 30%), then I'm only getting 0.3-0.8mg while I'm producing roughly around 1mg daily. This small amount should put me in the upper range on normal. I don't think it will be suppressive, but I haven't tested either. No sides so far.

Diamant is thought to increase dopamine production, not specifically being a dopamine receptor agonist itself. Direct agonists are much more likely to cause withdrawal, whereas I haven't seen such testimonies from people on Diamant.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

11-keto DHT has equal affinity to the AR compared to DHT, so it can be suppressive. But I'm sure that in low doses it will not be. I use 1mg in my navel, so let's say I absorb 80% (which might be very unlikely; more like 30%), then I'm only getting 0.3-0.8mg while I'm producing roughly around 1mg daily. This small amount should put me in the upper range on normal. I don't think it will be suppressive, but I haven't tested either. No sides so far.

Diamant is thought to increase dopamine production, not specifically being a dopamine receptor agonist itself. Direct agonists are much more likely to cause withdrawal, whereas I haven't seen such testimonies from people on Diamant.

Should 11keto be taken with pansterone? Have you tried cycling off, if so how did you feel? With a good diet do you think there should be no hair shedding at all from 11-keto?

Have you tried lisuride or bull testicles btw?

 

[Hans]

Should 11keto be taken with pansterone?

I use it solo. Pansterone might have additional benefits, but since you're going through puberty, preg and DHEA should already be high.

Have you tried cycling off, if so how did you feel?

No, I haven't. I plan to use it for 3-4 months (until the bottle runs out) and then see how I feel without it.

With a good diet do you think there should be no hair shedding at all from 11-keto?

Definitely not at 1mg. Even in studies where they use like 75mg daily, there is no reported hair loss.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

I use it solo. Pansterone might have additional benefits, but since you're going through puberty, preg and DHEA should already be high.

No, I haven't. I plan to use it for 3-4 months (until the bottle runs out) and then see how I feel without it.

Definitely not at 1mg. Even in studies where they use like 75mg daily, there is no reported hair loss.

Thanks for the replies, when is the best time to take andro

Also was wondering if you could help with calorie intake. I am 6'2 143 pounds (very low I know but was heavier) but I am considerably more muscular than the average joe and sub 10% bf, started gym 1.5 years ago at 55kg 18% bf. My macro split is 45% carb/40%sat fat/15% protein, this feels at times very androgenic but my maintenance is only 2550, I want to eat more and maintain my leanness, preferably I would like my maintenance to be at least 3,300 so I can lean bulk on 3500, I have quite a big appetite. If I have to the highest bf I want to be is 13%. How can I raise my maintenace, any supps to take, NDT maybe ?(will this cause suppression, when will I know that my maintenace has reached 3500)

 

[Hans]

Thanks for the replies, when is the best time to take andro

Also was wondering if you could help with calorie intake. I am 6'2 143 pounds (very low I know but was heavier) but I am considerably more muscular than the average joe and sub 10% bf, started gym 1.5 years ago at 55kg 18% bf. My macro split is 45% carb/40%sat fat/15% protein, this feels at times very androgenic but my maintenance is only 2550, I want to eat more and maintain my leanness, preferably I would like my maintenance to be at least 3,300 so I can lean bulk on 3500, I have quite a big appetite. If I have to the highest bf I want to be is 13%. How can I raise my maintenace, any supps to take, NDT maybe ?(will this cause suppression, when will I know that my maintenace has reached 3500)

I'd up the protein to about 20%.
There no good way to really increase maintenance calories. Some people experience a dramatic increase in their metabolic rate during a surplus whereas others don't.
A lot of it depends on how active you are apart from exercise; NEAT. There is no reliable way to increase NEAT except to make sure you get 15-20k steps daily or top of exercise.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

I'd up the protein to about 20%.
There no good way to really increase maintenance calories. Some people experience a dramatic increase in their metabolic rate during a surplus whereas others don't.
A lot of it depends on how active you are apart from exercise; NEAT. There is no reliable way to increase NEAT except to make sure you get 15-20k steps daily or top of exercise.

So no amount of NDT can change tdee? How would I know if my meabolic rate dramatically increased when I go into a surplus --- currently on maintenance now after coming out of a mini-cut, planning on going into a lean bulk next week

 

[Hans]

So no amount of NDT can change tdee? How would I know if my meabolic rate dramatically increased when I go into a surplus --- currently on maintenance now after coming out of a mini-cut, planning on going into a lean bulk next week

If you gain too much fat over 6 months on a lean bulk, then the surplus is too big.
NDT can cause hyperthyroidism, but that's not good for building muscle either.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

If you gain too much fat over 6 months on a lean bulk, then the surplus is too big.
NDT can cause hyperthyroidism, but that's not good for building muscle either.

Ok thanks]

What do you think about this protocal for teens boosting androgens:
Lean bulk 3000 calories Diet -- 45% Carbs (335grams), 40% fat (135grams), 15-20% protein (110grams) ---- Carbs (Potatoes, bananas, raisins, agave/honey, satsumas), fat (ghee, butter, beef tallow), protein (milk protein powder, whole grass fed milk, venison muscle meat, lamb liver, oysters, duck eggs/eggs)

Supps on top of diet ---- Androsterone 1mg (4x a week), Diamant (every other day, start with low dose), (Gonadin -- pre and post workout), ---- freeze dried lamb/bull testicle powder/capsules (2-3x a week) ---- Cholesterol powder (1-3g daily), L Carnitine L tartarate (pre and post workout) -- glycine (6g daily)

Do you think this protocal has any problems -- would andro or testicle be harmful on the liver -- would testicle cause suppression, I highly doubt it since my understanding is that it boosts your own production of T)

 

[AndrogenicJB]

Ok thanks]

What do you think about this protocal for teens boosting androgens:
Lean bulk 3000 calories Diet -- 45% Carbs (335grams), 40% fat (135grams), 15-20% protein (110grams) ---- Carbs (Potatoes, bananas, raisins, agave/honey, satsumas), fat (ghee, butter, beef tallow), protein (milk protein powder, whole grass fed milk, venison muscle meat, lamb liver, oysters, duck eggs/eggs)

Supps on top of diet ---- Androsterone 1mg (4x a week), Diamant (every other day, start with low dose), (Gonadin -- pre and post workout), ---- freeze dried lamb/bull testicle powder/capsules (2-3x a week) ---- Cholesterol powder (1-3g daily), L Carnitine L tartarate (pre and post workout) -- glycine (6g daily)

Do you think this protocal has any problems -- would andro or testicle be harmful on the liver -- would testicle cause suppression, I highly doubt it since my understanding is that it boosts your own production of T)

Diet also includes sardine/mackerel

 

[AndrogenicJB]

If I end up upping the carbs I may add b1 or niacinamide to the stack

 

[Hans]

Ok thanks]

What do you think about this protocal for teens boosting androgens:
Lean bulk 3000 calories Diet -- 45% Carbs (335grams), 40% fat (135grams), 15-20% protein (110grams) ---- Carbs (Potatoes, bananas, raisins, agave/honey, satsumas), fat (ghee, butter, beef tallow), protein (milk protein powder, whole grass fed milk, venison muscle meat, lamb liver, oysters, duck eggs/eggs)

Supps on top of diet ---- Androsterone 1mg (4x a week), Diamant (every other day, start with low dose), (Gonadin -- pre and post workout), ---- freeze dried lamb/bull testicle powder/capsules (2-3x a week) ---- Cholesterol powder (1-3g daily), L Carnitine L tartarate (pre and post workout) -- glycine (6g daily)

Do you think this protocal has any problems -- would andro or testicle be harmful on the liver -- would testicle cause suppression, I highly doubt it since my understanding is that it boosts your own production of T)

Looks good to me.

 

[AndrogenicJB]

Thanks alot m8

Looks good to me.