Metergoline - Liquid Serotonin Antagonist For Lab/R&D

[Dan W]

Yeah, the testing is really cool, thanks for going above-and-beyond, Haidut.

 

[Constatine]

My rat just started using this. What effects should be apparent with moderate use?

 

[Pointless]

First night subject tried 4 drops. Mild nausea, things felt really good, very frequent arousal, mental clarity. The next day, subject tried 1 drop and noticed some lowered self esteem and unwillingness to socialize. This continued with future doses of 2 drops. Sleep has been good.

 

[Constatine]

I have also felt a slight increase in anxiety and perhaps lowered self esteem on 8 drops. There do seem to be some positive effects but I wonder if this anxiety stems from a lack of inhibitory neurotransmitters. This is may be very oversimplified thinking but I suppose an increase in gaba is warranted to counteract the negative effects.

 

[Quality]

Please keep us updated on how you feel on using this

 

[dookie]

@haidut

How does Metergoline differ from the more readily available Nicergoline (which is apparently a standard pharmacy item in many countries)

 

[Insaneacinamide]

Research subject started with 4 drops of Metergoline. Within 15 minutes subject body felt warmer and a little restless.
Subject needed a change of environment, as subject suffers from high stress/depression.
Metabolism seemed to increase and subject was given 3 coca cola's 355ml to bring for the walk. Outside subjects mood increased some.
15 minutes later on walk subject received 4 more drops. Subject noticed first person they saw looked like Ray Peat. Subject felt it was an interesting coincidence.
Subject noticed some anti-depressant/anti-stress effects. Subject mentioned that Metergoline was better any SSRI/SNRI they have tried. From first time use effects, to overall effect as some medications are said to require time to build up.

Subject started to sing while walking. 30 minutes later subject took another 4 drops. Then another 4 drops 30 minutes later(16 drops total).
Subject did not feel the effects(anti stress/depression) increase or decrease anymore than the first 8 drops. Subject reported their energy was stable while walking around 9000 steps total for the walk which they recorded.
Subject only stopped 1x for a few minutes. Sang around 5 songs total. Sweated a lot due to wearing many layers of clothing to keep warm. All 3 coke's were drank during the walk, and took 3 pee breaks.

As subject was walking back to their cage while listening to Ray Peat talking on KMUD about authoritarianism they noticed a football game going being played. They felt sad for the people.
Possible head/body injuries. When they could be connecting on different levels through chemical/technology/science types of means. Subject did mention they have experienced concussions and a few knockouts in their lifetime.

Subject seemed a little more tired than usual when subject was back to it's cage. Could have been due to needing more food. Subject ate and felt better. Metabolism was high throughout the evening.
Subject mentioned that they did not notice much of an increase in warmer/loving type feeling as they have had on other medications. Though was still ready to engage people for a positive or negative situation.
As in making new friends or defending themselves. Sociability stayed the same.

They did not have a overwhelming sense of pleasure or depression. Felt pretty balanced. Less stress/depression.
Subject has a hard time describing things.

3 hours from first drop subject took another 8 drops(24 drops of Metergoline total). Felt no different from the first 8 drops.
Subject felt it was a safe substance. Felt it was interesting that the effect did not intensify past the first 8 drops.
Subject listened to some new music music they downloaded months ago but never bothered to listen to yet.

1 hour later subject took 8 drops of Lisuride. Did say they noticed a calmer type thinking as subject has complained in the past about there thinking being too spread out with different thoughts(probably from stress/depression).
Subject felt less thoughts in their mind.
1 hour later subject took another 8 drops of Lisuride(16 total). Took 20 minutes of full body red light. Did not notice much of a change positive or negative from first Lisuride dose. Perhaps more calm?

Subject's libido did not increase or decrease to any significant degree during the whole duration.
Subject had no problem falling asleep before 11pm.

Subject's sleeping did appear to improve slightly, as in less times restless and awoke with a clearer head/less stress. Total sleep time did not improve.
Slight anti-depressant/less stress effects are still noticed 10 hours after last dose taken.

Subject took 4 drops of Metergoline and Lisuride this morning. Noticed metabolism increase and same feeling as yesterday's.

 

[Quality]

Research subject started with 4 drops of Metergoline. Within 15 minutes subject body felt warmer and a little restless.
Subject needed a change of environment, as subject suffers from high stress/depression.
Metabolism seemed to increase and subject was given 3 coca cola's 355ml to bring for the walk. Outside subjects mood increased some.
15 minutes later on walk subject received 4 more drops. Subject noticed first person they saw looked like Ray Peat. Subject felt it was an interesting coincidence.
Subject noticed some anti-depressant/anti-stress effects. Subject mentioned that Metergoline was better any SSRI/SNRI they have tried. From first time use effects, to overall effect as some medications are said to require time to build up.

Subject started to sing while walking. 30 minutes later subject took another 4 drops. Then another 4 drops 30 minutes later(16 drops total).
Subject did not feel the effects(anti stress/depression) increase or decrease anymore than the first 8 drops. Subject reported their energy was stable while walking around 9000 steps total for the walk which they recorded.
Subject only stopped 1x for a few minutes. Sang around 5 songs total. Sweated a lot due to wearing many layers of clothing to keep warm. All 3 coke's were drank during the walk, and took 3 pee breaks.

As subject was walking back to their cage while listening to Ray Peat talking on KMUD about authoritarianism they noticed a football game going being played. They felt sad for the people.
Possible head/body injuries. When they could be connecting on different levels through chemical/technology/science types of means. Subject did mention they have experienced concussions and a few knockouts in their lifetime.

Subject seemed a little more tired than usual when subject was back to it's cage. Could have been due to needing more food. Subject ate and felt better. Metabolism was high throughout the evening.
Subject mentioned that they did not notice much of an increase in warmer/loving type feeling as they have had on other medications. Though was still ready to engage people for a positive or negative situation.
As in making new friends or defending themselves. Sociability stayed the same.

They did not have a overwhelming sense of pleasure or depression. Felt pretty balanced. Less stress/depression.
Subject has a hard time describing things.

3 hours from first drop subject took another 8 drops(24 drops of Metergoline total). Felt no different from the first 8 drops.
Subject felt it was a safe substance. Felt it was interesting that the effect did not intensify past the first 8 drops.
Subject listened to some new music music they downloaded months ago but never bothered to listen to yet.

1 hour later subject took 8 drops of Lisuride. Did say they noticed a calmer type thinking as subject has complained in the past about there thinking being too spread out with different thoughts(probably from stress/depression).
Subject felt less thoughts in their mind.
1 hour later subject took another 8 drops of Lisuride(16 total). Took 20 minutes of full body red light. Did not notice much of a change positive or negative from first Lisuride dose. Perhaps more calm?

Subject's libido did not increase or decrease to any significant degree during the whole duration.
Subject had no problem falling asleep before 11pm.

Subject's sleeping did appear to improve slightly, as in less times restless and awoke with a clearer head/less stress. Total sleep time did not improve.
Slight anti-depressant/less stress effects are still noticed 10 hours after last dose taken.

Subject took 4 drops of Metergoline and Lisuride this morning. Noticed metabolism increase and same feeling as yesterday's.

Time of the day was it taken? And also, seems a bit much to use?? Why not stick to the 4-8 drop dose for a few days and report back?
Either way thanks for the report :)

 

[Insaneacinamide]

Subject started at around 4:30pm.
Subject likes new experiments. However, no point to go over 8 drops in future for them.
Saw much higher dosages being used in some studies.
Treatment of hyperprolactinemic amenorrhea with Metergoline. - PubMed - NCBI up to 24mg/a day.
Double-blind, placebo-controlled study of single-dose metergoline in depressed patients with seasonal affective disorder. - PubMed - NCBI 8mg dose.
Other studies with some high dosages used as well.

 

[Quality]

Oh I see, I wonder if there would be any tollerance building up eventually.
Also wouldnt it be wiser to take it first thing in the morning as the half life seems to be 12hours as pointed out by Haidut.

 

[Constatine]

Metergoline seems to make my subject much more motivated. Subject tends to feel much more responsible and productive on the substance. Mood is stable. Will keep updating.

 

[DaveFoster]

I agree with Quality.

I think the opioid system is underplayed as a factor in depression, autism, and autoimmunity.

Peat has said that using a selective opioid antagonist, such as naltrexone possess powerful downstream affects that disrupt the influences of estrogen and histamine on the cell.

 

[luke gadget]

I've tried most of these now - this one (so far only a couple times), the lisuride, the ritanserin - and I can't feel anything from any of them at ALL.

Granted, this is normal for me with most substances, but with these tiny bottles I'm feeling extra frustrated. I've irrationally and rudely thought perhaps they were blanks - just DMSO and nothing else. But the fact that others do have reaction assure me I'm being silly.

Still - what's wrong with me that I have no reaction? Is there a compound that can 'potentiate' these? I've taken slightly higher doses, or mixed them together, with no effect.

What am I missing??

This non-reaction has been the norm for years. Most of that time I've been pretty healthy, but the past few months dealing with pretty horrible insomnia. But I doubt that whatever is causing the insomnia is related to my non-response.

I'm just venting here, apologies for any rant. I think Haidut's products are amazing - I just wish I could FEEL them.

 

[Rand56]

I've tried most of these now - this one (so far only a couple times), the lisuride, the ritanserin - and I can't feel anything from any of them at ALL.

You are not alone. My rat has yet to try metergoline, but I am hesistant to waste extra cash on it, knowing that I have not had any favorable reaction to both lisuride and ritanserin. plus I don't want to go down that rabbit hole of increasing the dose just to feel something from it not knowing what the negative consequences are with higher dosing of these chemicals.

For some reason, I get a more favorable reaction to just taking lysine. I'd like to know what's up with that, and why my rat is not a good responder to the above mentioned chemicals.

 

[Insaneacinamide]

Research Subject finished it's 2 day (weekend) experiment with metergoline/lisuride.
That is why subject got a higher dose first use. Subject noticed a build up effect as it might be from the half life times.
Subject did 4 drops of each 2x on Saturday morning/evening. Then did 2 drops of each 1x on Sunday.
Subject feels it cannot give a definitive response to their experience to others due to short time usage. Interesting to say the least on the experiment.
Not everyone should expect same experience that this research subject had. As a few people mentioned above there research subjects not getting much of a reaction from some of these substances. Which is unfortunate.

Subject feels this substance could be judged better doing a longer term experiment using low dose. Bridging up dose if needed.

Perhaps dosages around 1-4 drops of each(or even just 1 ergoline) 2x a day would be enough for other subjects depending on what they use it for. Might help adhd/add, or daytime fatigue with a stimulation effect.
Subject did get some anxiety at times wanting to change some stressors in their environment/life.
Seemed more motivated overall, some day time fatigue issues prior to use were felt less with these 2 substances.

Subject is impatient and never intended to use it for a long time. Subject is doing alright with the basic stuff like vitamins/minerals/hormones/herbs/aspirin etc.

Subject was researched on using these ergolines to try this to compare different substances used around the world for certain conditions like anxiety/depression/Parkinson's/migraines so they could get a better understanding on what is being used, and have an experience.

Thanks to Haidut for making these things available for research.

 

[haidut]

@haidut

How does Metergoline differ from the more readily available Nicergoline (which is apparently a standard pharmacy item in many countries)

Nicergoline has none of the anti-serotonin and pro-dopamine effects of metergoline. In fact, other than the similar structure I am not sure they have anything in common functionally.

 

[haidut]

Hey Haidut,
My rat does not respond to Ritanserin, Lisuride or Androsterone.
My rat is very depressed and Tianeptine Sulfate provides substantial relief only when taken every 3 or 4 days.
My rat also does well with Methylphenidate but tolerance seems to build rapidly, and so again, cycling is necessary.
Based on the foregoing, is there reason to believe Metergoline could provide benefit?
Rat is desperate, recovering from Klonopin withdrawal syndrome, has bipolar depression, and the mornings are gratuitously difficult.

Methylene blue seems to work well (in human studies) for both unipolar and bipolar depression. There are human studies showing complete reversal with 15mg daily for just 2 weeks.

 

[poilochio]

My Little Hamster is a typ 1 Diabetic and i have read through the research that was posted on Meterg. It always says "Chemical induced Diabetes"...so is this equivalent to Typ 1 Diabetes?

On a side note

Hamsters Bloodsugars have been surprisingly good with the use of Androsterone 2x 3 drops a day

 

[haidut]

My Little Hamster is a typ 1 Diabetic and i have read through the research that was posted on Meterg. It always says "Chemical induced Diabetes"...so is this equivalent to Typ 1 Diabetes?

On a side note

Hamsters Bloodsugars have been surprisingly good with the use of Androsterone 2x 3 drops a day

The chemical induced diabetes is a condition that mimics human type I diabetes - i.e. the scientists destroy the animals' pancreas with some toxic chemical and the animal cannot produce insulin any more. So, it should be a pretty good model of human diabetes.
The androsterone effect on blood sugar is not surprising. Ray said that all strong androgens improve oxidation of glucose and lower cortisol (which improves insulin sensitivity).

 

[poilochio]

The chemical induced diabetes is a condition that mimics human type I diabetes - i.e. the scientists destroy the animals' pancreas with some toxic chemical and the animal cannot produce insulin any more. So, it should be a pretty good model of human diabetes.
The androsterone effect on blood sugar is not surprising. Ray said that all strong androgens improve oxidation of glucose and lower cortisol (which improves insulin sensitivity). So, if you are having good results with androsterone than maybe no need to mess with metergoline unless you are into rat experiments with cool chemicals :)

Oh wow thanks Haidut for explaining this.
Yeah me and my Hamster are totally into cool Chemicals☺