Metergoline - Liquid Serotonin Antagonist For Lab/R&D

[Quality]

I feel like I'm getting really awful rebound w this. It's happened to me before on lisuride. My face sags, I look like I've aged 5 yrs and get really bad dark circles. Also bc I can't sleep more than a few hours on it. Been taking high dose niacinamide as well which hasn't helped w hypoglaecmia. Feeling anxious, can't get enough food but not enough appetite. Red light and lysine help so I think it is a serotonin issue. I know niacinamide can be serotonergic in higher doses as well but it's also happened before w/o it, just on metergoline. I wonder if there is some kind of down/upregulation going on.
Really overwhelmed atm, my toenails are yellowing, bloated, can't sleep

If you could tell us your protocol.... dosing... timing of metergoline... duration of use, we might be able to help you more.
You just telling your symptoms, also.... your symptoms are while being ON metergoline, or while OFF?...

 

[Regina]

What about possible sleep issues? You get them when you dose it so late in the day!!!???

No. I think somewhere Haidut touched on the different effects in dosing both am and pm.
I don't think my exercise time is ideal but there are only evening classes available. I have cut back to taking only a 6:30p hour long class weeknights. So, it's hard to say about sleep because even now I am eating dinner later than would be ideal.

 

[Quality]

Hmmmm the logic on this forum seems a bit far off at times, I cant imagine why anyone would take a serotonin antagonist in the PM considering serotonin is necesarry to make melatonin.
I know this forum is very against serotonin, but after all it is necesarry to have some aswell especially towards the end of the day.
These protocols that some people have on here is just straight out weird.

 

[Constatine]

Hey Constatine,
Ive stopped using it for a bit, hows your view on its effects with low dose vs high dose regarding libido.
You mention lower doses make you outgoing and seems to increase your dopamine levels.
My theory would be actually be that at low doses it would only antagonise the autoreceptors, such as 5HT1-autoreceptor (antagonizing this leads to increased serotonin), where as higher doses of metergoline would go pass the autoreceptors aswell and antagonize the other receptors aswell.
Remember im not saying this is how it works, just saying this is also a possibility, low serotonin in some people is also known to increase anxiety/fear, especially people with major depressive disorder ( the ones who suffer from low serotonin to start with ).

I wonder if chronic low dose metergoline ( just enough to keep the autoreceptor antagonized ) would eventually lead to upregulation of the autoreceptor, this would have a huge impact on the quality of life for people suffering from anhedonia/numbness caused by SSRI induced downregulation of the 5ht1a autoreceptor.
Take into account, metergoline affects far more than 5ht1a receptors, the 5ht2a receptor which is also affected by metergoline is reponsible for the hallucogenic effects of LSD, and plays a large role in the perception of environmental triggers.

I like your theory perhaps this is how it works but it is difficult to say. Another strange effect is that super high doses as in 14 drops make me very drowsy and the anxiety affects do not seem to appear but I've only dosed like this a few times so I don't know if I just happened to get drowsy due to other factors. It definitely alters perception for the better I would say. It makes me more aware. As for libido it might increase it but the effects are not very pronounced. I get a greater libido boost if I do trypotophan depletion using bcaas.

 

[Regina]

Everyone should sleep in a COMPLETELY dark room, no matter what.
Sleep = recharging the battery, production of hormones, brain repair and so on.

Thanks for your response Quality. But this does not sound very restorative to me:
Aging Eyes, Infant Eyes, and Excitable Tissues
Regards.

 

[haidut]

Haidut,
Do you sleep with any, however dim, light or amber light on to avoid melatonin and stress of darkness????

I am thinking of getting an ambient red light of some sort that I keep on at night. But for now, the windows of the bedroom are entirely covered in amber foil to block the blue light from street lamps.

 

[haidut]

Hmmmm the logic on this forum seems a bit far off at times, I cant imagine why anyone would take a serotonin antagonist in the PM considering serotonin is necesarry to make melatonin.
I know this forum is very against serotonin, but after all it is necesarry to have some aswell especially towards the end of the day.
These protocols that some people have on here is just straight out weird.

Taking a serotonin antagonist will not usually have an effect on serotonin levels, it will just block its effects. So, there will still be plenty of serotonin to synthesize melatonin from. Now, if people were taking a TPH inhibitor like pCPA that actually lowers serotonin levels that could be an issue. But even that seems unlikely as the people who take the BCAA/tyrosine combo reports that it makes them very relaxed and even sleepy even tough it lower serotonin levels in the brain.

 

[Regina]

I am thinking of getting an ambient red light of some sort that I keep on at night. But for now, the windows of the bedroom are entirely covered in amber foil to block the blue light from street lamps.

Cool. Neat idea with amber foil.
I got these cheapo amber night lights. I think I'll move one into the bedroom. THX!!
Amber LED Night Light With Sensor (Pack of 2)

 

[haidut]

This quote was taken from examine.com they are a very well known resource tbh.
They mean when cortisol is elevated, aromatase mRNA gets upregulated and this happens through a cyclic AMP dependant pathway ( think forskolin, the best well known cAMP inducer, this also induces aromatase mRNA, look it up! )

And yes I did dose the melatonin at night, it seems to make easier to get through the day, the day after use, but also makes me somewhat indifferent I think ill drop the melatonin tbh.

The study you quoted from Examine says that cortisol and cAMP stimulate aromatase independently. So, cortisol-stimulated aromatase is NOT the same as cAMP stimulated aromatase. Cortisol has aromatase stimulating effects on its own through stimulating water uptake and opposing insulin. There are other mechanisms, including by raising cAMP.
Here is the study from reference [197]. Note that the abstract says aromatase can be stimulated by cortisol OR cAMP, meaning the mechanisms are independent. The actual study states it even more directly that cAMP and cortisol independently stimulate aromatase.
Melatonin modulates aromatase activity in MCF-7 human breast cancer cells. - PubMed - NCBI
"...We found that melatonin reduces the aromatase activity (measured by the tritiated water release assay) of MCF-7 cells both at basal conditions and when aromatase activity was stimulated by cAMP or cortisol. The greatest inhibition of the aromatase activity was obtained with 1 nm melatonin, the same concentration that gives the highest antiproliferative and anti-invasive effects of MCF-7 cells."
"... Melatonin also decreased the aromatase activity induced by cAMP (100 nm) or cortisol (100 nm), two well-known inducers of aromatase expression (Fig. 4)."

 

[Philomath]

Here is an interesting study regarding serotonin's role in behavioral inhibition: Reconciling the Role of Serotonin in Behavioral Inhibition and Aversion: Acute Tryptophan Depletion Abolishes Punishment-Induced Inhibition in Humans | Journal of Neuroscience

Great find Constantine - makes you wonder if theres a plan at work to purposely keep us in a high serotonin state.
This also explains Woodstock

 

[Regina]

Great find Constantine - makes you wonder if theres a plan at work to purposely keep us in a high serotonin state.
This also explains Woodstock

Ya think?!?!?!

If it isn't a plan, it sure is some kind of weird dumb (un)luck.

 

[Philomath]

Ya think?!?!?!

If it isn't a plan, it sure is some kind of weird dumb (un)luck.

Yes, Ray has made quite clear the intentions of the authoritarians...I didn't come right out and say it because I don't want to be on a watch list somewhere
Btw, the way science works today, I wouldn't necessarily rule out dumb (un)luck

 

[Insaneacinamide]

A fellow researcher was telling me that their subject has been responding more positively when drops are applied and rubbed into the stomach.
This surface area might not be best for other subjects, but might be an idea for other researchers to try other areas on a subject, and see how they respond to treatment.

 

[vetiver]

If you could tell us your protocol.... dosing... timing of metergoline... duration of use, we might be able to help you more.
You just telling your symptoms, also.... your symptoms are while being ON metergoline, or while OFF?...

Ok sorry, it's definitely not the metergoline (even though I have felt low from not being able to sleep from it previously) I totally forgot that I mixed some tianepine into a bottle of stressnon that I have been dosing pretty continuously for 2 weeks or so and it seems I'm dealing w opioid addiction.

 

[Soren]

Would this be good for quitting cigarettes? I see there is plenty of research with regards to other forms of addiction.

However I am unfamiliar with the pathology of cigarette addiction (I assume it is simialr to other substances) so don't know if metergoline would be affective.

 

[haidut]

Would this be good for quitting cigarettes? I see there is plenty of research with regards to other forms of addiction.

However I am unfamiliar with the pathology of cigarette addiction (I assume it is simialr to other substances) so don't know if metergoline would be affective.

Google "Tabex". It is a Bulgarian drug developed in the 1960s and used successfully all over the world. Pfizer developed a toxic knock-off called Chantix and is selling it in the USA right now. I don't know if metergoline would help. Based on the evidence I have seen, there is no such thing as "addiction". It is just self-medication when under chronic stress. When the stress disappears, so does the "addiction".
Rat Park - Wikipedia

Smoking raises metabolism and so does coffee, and this is the reason they are so widely consumed, especially by people under stress and in poorer countries where not much else is available. So, quitting could be as simple as raising metabolism using other means like thyroid.

 

[Soren]

Google "Tabex". It is a Bulgarian drug developed in the 1960s and used successfully all over the world. Pfizer plagiarized it and developed a toxic alternative called Chantix and is selling it in the USA right now. I don't know if metergoline would help. In theory, there is no such as a addiction. Smoking raises metabolism and so does coffee, and this is the reason they are so widely consumed, especially by people under stress. So, quitting could be as simple as raising metabolism using other means like thyroid.

Thanks Haidut, I'll definitely look into that. My thought was that since substances such as Ritanserin and other serotonin antagonists are shown to help with addiction to alcohol and other substances, the same might apply to cigarettes.

 

[denise]

Thanks Haidut, I'll definitely look into that. My thought was that since substances such as Ritanserin and other serotonin antagonists are shown to help with addiction to alcohol and other substances, the same might apply to cigarettes.

If you really want to quit, read Alan Carr's book. HOWEVER. Do not under any circumstances quit smoking until you've addressed your energy issues in some other way. I used Tabex in the spring, and it was helping, but I wasn't sure it was going to do the trick (it makes cigs taste like ***t, and not as satisfying). Then I found Carr's book, read it in a weekend, and stopped smoking immediately, easily. Then my cortisol plummeted, my appetite skyrocketed, my mood tanked, my digestion went to hell, and I gained 20 pounds. All because I didn't realize that the smokes were the only thing propping up my thyroid. If I had known better (and if it had existed in the spring), I would have bought some TyroMix, gotten my energy solid, and only then quit. I'm still messed up from it. If you google this (quit smoking + thyroid or +bloating), you'll see it happens to MANY people. I'm actually smoking again (though only a few per day--it's no longer the "addiction" it was before) after 6 months of having none. I wouldn't have started up again at all except for the fact that my health took such a nosedive after I quit (though I also read this book, which has convinced me that cigs aren't quite so nefarious as we're led to believe).

You can also try shrooms or LSD for quitting. They can get you into the same headspace as Carr does, but in a very different (and illegal) way. :)

 

[Mufasa]

When will this be available again? And can I preorder?

 

[haidut]

When will this be available again? And can I preorder?

We don't take pre-orders but we should have some available by next week.