Metabolism vs. Belief System: Which is easier to fix?

Joined
Apr 11, 2021
Messages
46
Location
Manila
What's easier to fix--a person's metabolism or a person's belief system? I ask this question because I currently in a position to be in a romantic relationship with either:

- someone playful, relaxed and fun to be around, but completely brainwashed by the COVID narrative; or
- someone who sees the scamdemic for what it is but is in a state of learned helplessness (i.e. every little thing stresses him out, he took the jab even if he recognizes how dangerous and insane it is)

Obviously I know that there's the option of picking neither, but I hope to gain insight about whether it is more realistic to try to influence a person with a decent metabolism to see the world for what is, or to try to heal the extremely broken metabolism of a person with an already decent worldview.
 

opethfeldt

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
685
I'd say that if you're already so eager to change your would-be partner, they aren't the one for you.
 

AncestralJoy

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Messages
157
What's easier to fix--a person's metabolism or a person's belief system? I ask this question because I currently in a position to be in a romantic relationship with either:

- someone playful, relaxed and fun to be around, but completely brainwashed by the COVID narrative; or
- someone who sees the scamdemic for what it is but is in a state of learned helplessness (i.e. every little thing stresses him out, he took the jab even if he recognizes how dangerous and insane it is)

Obviously I know that there's the option of picking neither, but I hope to gain insight about whether it is more realistic to try to influence a person with a decent metabolism to see the world for what is, or to try to heal the extremely broken metabolism of a person with an already decent worldview.
I'd find it pretty hard to take someone seriously who could see the scamdemic for what it was and still took the jab. Very hard to find a scrap of respect for someone making those sorts of decisions...
 

Yonebayashian

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Messages
145
Location
Colorado Springs
I'd say that if you're already so eager to change your would-be partner, they aren't the one for you.
This

Also it would be one thing if you were a man trying to take the lead and fix your partner, but as a woman just shop around for someone else. You're trying to lead someone into leading you. It looks like you're trying to just settle on someone. Just be patient and keep looking, you'll find someone. Evaluate what your values are.

Also the second guy really does not sound like he is in a place where he can be in a relationship. Of all the different kinds of anger and resentment out there, the most intense is a woman's hatred for a man who is incapable of supporting her- forcing her into the mans gender role. Is that how you want to live the rest of your life?

(also nice hildegarde von bingen pfp op)
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
its like choosing between a cardboard smiley and a spineless lemming that can't break away from the line to the edge of a cliff. None seem to exhibit brain development that can be conferred by optimal metabolism at all. And none really have a core of beliefs to have enough conviction about.

I wish you the best in finding someone who can be perfectly imperfectly made for you to grow with and to be forever young with.
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,722
Location
Austria
I don't realy like the judgmental tone towards people we do not know, coming here from some people.

Anyhow i think this is one of the instances where you ask and ask other people outside about the situation but at the end only you know and only you can decide. Usually one already knows the answer if one were to be realy and completly honest with him/herself. And with honesty even if it may sound childish, i think it looks something like this:

"I want Person 1 whos playful and great to be around to have intellectual or rational thought processes like Person 2 in the sense that he beliefs the same things i do."

Most people will gravitate towards which person "feels" right. Wether that is the right decision one does not know until the decision is made.
I think the better course of action might be, if you realy "need" to make a decision, get to know these two more, talk to them more deeply and more often about these things even if its annoying and i think a decision will become somewhat clearer and easier on its own. Because with person 1 you might run into the issue of loosing support when you start arguing about vaccination over a child or loosing the job over the tyranny (which Person 1 seems to support). And in realy realy bad times ... i dont know, i would like to know the partner i choose, trust and love has my back when shhit realy hits the fan.

Thats not like arguing over vanilla or chocolate. Thats a fundamental difference in societal perspective of the world and understanding of how to interact and treat people.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Usually one already knows the answer if one were to be realy and completly honest with him/herself.
Not even close.

The thing is this is kinda stock advice you get from newspapers and magazines. Honestly, most people will say this because they have little insight to add. Or they are just too busy to even give it a thought. Or they are already itching to ask the person asking for advice - get this- for advice, and are too busy thinking about their own problems to even listen.

I speak from experience. I have plenty of siblings. I feel they cannot give me advice that has depth and meaning. Close friends as well who just like to give out worn out aphorisms that don't really apply.

On the other hand, I shouldn't be disagreeing with you in terms of principle, but in terms of method. I find that going to a counselor, who is really trained to shut up and listen, and give the whole hour to me talking and yakking, is the best person to listen to for advice. Friends and family are often useless, imho, because while even with good intentions, most don't listen. Lucky you if you have a friend who has learned to listen. That friend is a gem. In the end, he or she will understand you better, and you yourself may understand yourself better to make the decision, and that friend would have spoken very little.
 

AlaskaJono

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2020
Messages
940
What's easier to fix--a person's metabolism or a person's belief system? I ask this question because I currently in a position to be in a romantic relationship with either:

- someone playful, relaxed and fun to be around, but completely brainwashed by the COVID narrative; or
- someone who sees the scamdemic for what it is but is in a state of learned helplessness (i.e. every little thing stresses him out, he took the jab even if he recognizes how dangerous and insane it is)

Obviously I know that there's the option of picking neither, but I hope to gain insight about whether it is more realistic to try to influence a person with a decent metabolism to see the world for what is, or to try to heal the extremely broken metabolism of a person with an already decent worldview.
Neither are easier to fix. As stated by wise peaters above. People have to want to change, grow, and learn. If you know what you want in Life, then be it, and then you will meet people who you groove with. It may take time, but sub-par responsibility in a Significant Other is not a healthy relationship. The more responsible you are for your health and spirituality, the less issues you have with being more alone.
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,722
Location
Austria
Not even close.

The thing is this is kinda stock advice you get from newspapers and magazines. Honestly, most people will say this because they have little insight to add. Or they are just too busy to even give it a thought. Or they are already waiting to ask the person asking for advice - get this- for advice.

I speak from experience. I have plenty of siblings. I feel they cannot give me advice that has depth and meaning. Close friends as well who just like to give out worn out aphorisms that don't really apply.

On the other hand, I shouldn't be disagreeing with you in terms of principle, but in terms of method. I find that going to a counselor, who is really trained to shut up and listen, and give the whole hour to me talking and yakking, is the best person to listen to for advice. Friends and family are useless useless, imho, because while even with good intentions, most don't listen. Lucky you if you have a friend who has learned to listen. That friend is a gem. In the end, he or she will understand you better, and you yourself may understand yourself better to make the decision, and that friend would have spoken very little.

Thats not stock advise. Not at all.

My personal conclusion after years of experience asking exactly these kind of questions over and over and yet not finding answers. And remaining unsure of what do and how to do it. The lack of depth and meaning you describe from friends and family is normal. Majority of people are not good at this, and i at times forget to apply them myself and fall into behaviour that is not what listening should be.

And you can observe this predicament everywhere. The person complaining about something or someone in the circle of friends always repeats itself, sometimes the same topic is complained and talked about for weeks, months or even years instead of growing some ******* balls and talk to the actual person involved. Instead of finally getting out of that state of learned helplessness and resolve it.

I had these kind of expensive therapys and councels and as you've said if one had friends like this its invaluable but even with thoose supports one can remain paralyzed of indicision. It is one thing to know what one wants and what to do, and another to actually doing it and communicating it properly. But you need both.
No matter who i asked no matter how badly i tried to make sense of things i always came back to the same conclusion at the end: "I was right, i should've listened to myself and trusted myself." Every damn time.

Every decision you make is yours to bear. And it is your responsibility. And it is your life. Thats it.



In terms of OP's question, i mean realy, how can we as strangers help her here? We do not know any of these 3 people and spew opinions based on a persona description that coudn't be any more reductionistic.
 

AlaskaJono

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2020
Messages
940
And the people you then groove with will be 'On the Journey' as well.
 
OP
sibyloftherhine
Joined
Apr 11, 2021
Messages
46
Location
Manila
This

Also it would be one thing if you were a man trying to take the lead and fix your partner, but as a woman just shop around for someone else. You're trying to lead someone into leading you. It looks like you're trying to just settle on someone. Just be patient and keep looking, you'll find someone. Evaluate what your values are.

Also the second guy really does not sound like he is in a place where he can be in a relationship. Of all the different kinds of anger and resentment out there, the most intense is a woman's hatred for a man who is incapable of supporting her- forcing her into the mans gender role. Is that how you want to live the rest of your life?

(also nice hildegarde von bingen pfp op)
Actually, the second guy is someone I met before I found Ray Peat. For some context, I found Peat after around 2 years of obsessive fasting due to both a skewed perspective of health and religious reasons. When I initially met him, I was in a hypometabolic state myself and thought he had a masculine personality (gender roles have always been something important to me from a religious standpoint). It was only after discovering Peat and transforming my lifestyle accordingly that I began to realize that traits I thought were masculine were actually estrogenic. I've been clinging to hope that I could help him heal his metabolism in the same way that I healed mine--but you're absolutely right about this not being the role of a woman.

Also, glad you like the photo :)

its like choosing between a cardboard smiley and a spineless lemming that can't break away from the line to the edge of a cliff. None seem to exhibit brain development that can be conferred by optimal metabolism at all. And none really have a core of beliefs to have enough conviction about.

I wish you the best in finding someone who can be perfectly imperfectly made for you to grow with and to be forever young with.
I couldn't have made a better analogy myself, haha. Thank you for the well wishes too--what you described is precisely what I'm hoping to find.

Anyhow i think this is one of the instances where you ask and ask other people outside about the situation but at the end only you know and only you can decide. Usually one already knows the answer if one were to be realy and completly honest with him/herself. And with honesty even if it may sound childish, i think it looks something like this:

"I want Person 1 whos playful and great to be around to have intellectual or rational thought processes like Person 2 in the sense that he beliefs the same things i do."

Most people will gravitate towards which person "feels" right. Wether that is the right decision one does not know until the decision is made.
I came here to learn from other people's wisdom and experience--two things I don't really have (for some context, I'm a 20-year-old). I'm not exactly looking for explicit answers to my questions, just insight and perspective. You're definitely right about what I honestly want, but my questions ultimately boil down to if it is possible for me achieve that with either person in the future (obviously not now).
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,722
Location
Austria
I came here to learn from other people's wisdom and experience--two things I don't really have (for some context, I'm a 20-year-old). I'm not exactly looking for explicit answers to my questions, just insight and perspective. You're definitely right about what I honestly want, but my questions ultimately boil down to if it is possible for me achieve that with either person in the future (obviously not now).

I think it is "possible" that either of these two personas can be "fixed" (kind of a horrible thing to say) into what you want them to. What is easier i cannot tell you because i'm quite certain this depends alot on the individual.

So essentially you have the best insight of wether or not this is actualy possible because you are in contact and connection with them.

You are talking about a future. Who do you feel could be a better partner for that of these two?
Have you noticed either one of them being more open to your opinions and ideas? Who do you feel of these two is in a position that would allow for the process of "growing together"?
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
I had these kind of expensive therapys and councels and as you've said if one had friends like this its invaluable but even with thoose supports one can remain paralyzed of indicision. It is one thing to know what one wants and what to do, and another to actually doing it and communicating it properly. But you need both.
No matter who i asked no matter how badly i tried to make sense of things i always came back to the same conclusion at the end: "I was right, i should've listened to myself and trusted myself." Every damn time.

Every decision you make is yours to bear. And it is your responsibility. And it is your life. Thats it.
I don't disagree with you on this point, but see, the point I make is that often we are in doubt about ourselves, and it's not like we have a 100% batting average. But hindsight is always 20/20, but in our moment of indecision, it helps to have someone there to listen and discuss our doubts with.

In terms of OP's question, i mean realy, how can we as strangers help her here? We do not know any of these 3 people and spew opinions based on a persona description that coudn't be any more reductionistic.
I don't see this as much of a hindrance as the reason the OP asks in a forum behind anonymity is that she probably has tried getting advice from friends and family, and if she is very well satisfied with the advice she got such that no doubt is left, she would't be posting here. After all, she has described to us her friend/suitors, and I wouldn't take her descriptions lightly. After all, this is coming from someone who can also figure out things for herself, as you put it so succinctly, being like most people like you and me. You have to ask yourself who is really being judgmental here, don't you?
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
And the people you then groove with will be 'On the Journey' as well.
Yeah, we are all on the same journey. I hope we get better as we age and give better advice, or learn to just listen when no advice is forthcoming. We should age like good wine and not be vinegar.
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,722
Location
Austria
After all, she has described to us her friend/suitors, and I wouldn't take her descriptions lightly. After all, this is coming from someone who can also figure out things for herself, as you put it so succinctly, being like most people like you and me. You have to ask yourself who is really being judgmental here, don't you?

Why is it judgmental. I didn't insult or judge neither the op nor the two people in question.
At best i find the question asked to be "the wrong question" and made a assumption of the possible internal struggle she might have or not.

If asking the question here and having people say "Take person one!" "No take person two!" "Take neither! Love yourself!" helps her then i apologize for my intrution and i'll leave this thread alone. If my approach towards the issue is not applicable to her that is.

I don't see this as much of a hindrance as the reason the OP asks in a forum behind anonymity is that she probably has tried getting advice from friends and family, and if she is very well satisfied with the advice she got such that no doubt is left, she would't be posting here.

Woudn't the proper question then be "why do i have these doubts, whats realy keeping me from making the decision? What am i afraid of?"

I remember this woman in her mid thirties. Met her in a group session with 2 theraphists overseeing it. She had a bad relationship with a man. A year later she still suffered from it due to him not aiding her when she was in need of help as she was sexually assaulted on a train. She kept asking him over the phone to come and help her and he didn't. It was more important for him to go to a party. She kept asking people, old and young in this group session for advice since shes been thinking about confronting him to resolve the emotional turmoil that this guy caused her. She got the most different answers. One lady in her late 40s told her to not do it because it was the worst thing she could've done because the confrontation and answers hurt her deep on a emotional level. Then this other woman in her late 60s said she had something like this and confronting and getting answers was the best thing ever for her, since it gave her finally relief.
But one thing was for certain, she thought about it and actually wanted to do it. And thats her actually knowing and her actual answer if you were to ask me. Thats what i ment with being honest with oneself. The lady i described in this story "knew" what she wanted. The only thing others were able to do were to either confuse her further or lead her to the answer only she herself can possibly know.

The OP here wants to know whats easier to fix. And the reality of the predicament is, noone here can possibly know and only share personal anecdotes that may or may not at all apply to her relationships and the individuals in question.
 
OP
sibyloftherhine
Joined
Apr 11, 2021
Messages
46
Location
Manila
The OP here wants to know whats easier to fix. And the reality of the predicament is, noone here can possibly know and only share personal anecdotes that may or may not at all apply to her relationships and the individuals in question.
I definitely agree with your assessment of this forum situation, but as I mentioned above, I'm not expecting to receive explicit answers to my questions
In terms of OP's question, i mean realy, how can we as strangers help her here? We do not know any of these 3 people and spew opinions based on a persona description that coudn't be any more reductionistic.
The perspective of a stranger is more helpful than you describe. And when I say "perspective", I'm not expecting concrete advice for my situation but semi-related experiences and insights that I can't call my own.
You are talking about a future. Who do you feel could be a better partner for that of these two?
Have you noticed either one of them being more open to your opinions and ideas? Who do you feel of these two is in a position that would allow for the process of "growing together"?
These questions are in fact an example of how a stranger can be helpful. Thank you for asking them.
 

yerrag

Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2016
Messages
10,883
Location
Manila
Why is it judgmental. I didn't insult or judge neither the op nor the two people in question.
At best i find the question asked to be "the wrong question" and made a assumption of the possible internal struggle she might have or not.

If asking the question here and having people say "Take person one!" "No take person two!" "Take neither! Love yourself!" helps her then i apologize for my intrution and i'll leave this thread alone. If my approach towards the issue is not applicable to her that is.
The only person being judgmental here is the person accusing others of the very same thing IMHO.

Woudn't the proper question then be "why do i have these doubts, whats realy keeping me from making the decision? What am i afraid of?"
You should then have asked the OP this.

I remember this woman in her mid thirties. Met her in a group session with 2 theraphists overseeing it. She had a bad relationship with a man. A year later she still suffered from it due to him not aiding her when she was in need of help as she was sexually assaulted on a train. She kept asking him over the phone to come and help her and he didn't. It was more important for him to go to a party. She kept asking people, old and young in this group session for advice since shes been thinking about confronting him to resolve the emotional turmoil that this guy caused her. She got the most different answers. One lady in her late 40s told her to not do it because it was the worst thing she could've done because the confrontation and answers hurt her deep on a emotional level. Then this other woman in her late 60s said she had something like this and confronting and getting answers was the best thing ever for her, since it gave her finally relief.
But one thing was for certain, she thought about it and actually wanted to do it. And thats her actually knowing and her actual answer if you were to ask me. Thats what i ment with being honest with oneself. The lady i described in this story "knew" what she wanted. The only thing others were able to do were to either confuse her further or lead her to the answer only she herself can possibly know.
Doesn't matter. She is in a therapy session and that's normal in these sessions. So what if she got different responses? Did she go there expecting a chorus refrain? It's still helpful. We do this all the time in life. It's not just about love.

The OP here wants to know whats easier to fix. And the reality of the predicament is, noone here can possibly know and only share personal anecdotes that may or may not at all apply to her relationships and the individuals in question.
That is a given. No one is in any state of illusion here. OP asks and we answer. No one is forcing ideas on anyone.

Giving our own individual opinion is fair game. We're not inscribing a Rosetta Stone here.
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,722
Location
Austria
The only person being judgmental here is the person accusing others of the very same thing IMHO.

What a fail. I didn't compare her romantic love interests with a spineless lemming with a lack of brain developement. Nor did i accuse anyone of giving "stock magazine advise". I also did not say in my original post that someone specific is judgmental. Accusing others of being judgmental after feeling accused of being judgmental is such a childish response.

You should then have asked the OP this.

Its a public forum, she reads them and can decide if these questions are useful. I answered with these questions because i disagree with you saying that the meager personal description of the love interest is not a "hindrance". Maybe not a hindrance but more context would benefit everyone.

Doesn't matter. She is in a therapy session and that's normal in these sessions. So what if she got different responses? Did she go there expecting a chorus refrain? It's still helpful. We do this all the time in life. It's not just about love.

The anecdote along with the questions was merely there to enforce my point that there is no way to tell whats easier to fix. Which is a answer to the op too. And she said herself that semi-related experiences can be helpful to her. Why woudn't the story of this person "matter"? What doesn't matter exactly?

What you describe is completly normal. As you've said we do this all the time in life. No idea why the session part bothers you, i was just painiting a scene telling a story. Nowhere did i say that that in particular matters nor did i imply her to expect a specific reaction of chanting. What the hell? Nor did i imply that because of that one shoudn't ask questions. All i am saying is to look more inwards and ask the right question to yourself.

That is a given. No one is in any state of illusion here. OP asks and we answer. No one is forcing ideas on anyone.

Giving our own individual opinion is fair game. We're not inscribing a Rosetta Stone here.

Is it a given? The question is a direkt yes or no question. A or B. I can point out that that is not that easy and the question asked is maybe not the right approach. She said herself as a respone that shes not asking for a concrete answer but for experiences but that was not obvious from the first original post. Atleast not to me. Stone me for it?

Where did i say you cannot give your individual opinion or that anyone is forcing ideas onto someone? Or that someone is in a state of illusion? You critisize something here that i never said or implied. Im suggesting at best that some opinions can be unhelpful or misleading. Time wasting even.
That does not mean you cannot give them.
Which is why i wrote my experience with it. Which is not a advise you will ever get out of a magazine. Unlike the proposal of "go to a counsellor who knows how to listen". Not that thats bad advise ofcourse.

This is a useless derailing of the thread where aqusations are getting trowhn around of who said what or who implied what. Im out.
 

Ben.

Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2020
Messages
1,722
Location
Austria
These questions are in fact an example of how a stranger can be helpful. Thank you for asking them.

Glad you found them helpful. Sory for this needles debate. Hope you will be happy with whatever choice you make.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom