Message To Men - Check For A Varicocele - (Lowers Libido Causes ED)

Rock_V

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Hi Everyone :)
So, this is actually my first post on the forum. I've been following and learning lots from here for a few months now, and I've been wanting to share this information for a while as I think it could enlighten people about something which is fairly common and appears to cause pretty sinister symptoms.

I am a 20 year old male and have a left sided grade 3 varicocele. For those who have no idea what a varicocele is ( I didn't ) then google is probably your best answer for an in depth explanation, but basically it is just enlarged veins of the scrotum, which feel like a bag of worms. The blood in these tortuous veins becomes stagnated leading to diminished blood flow to the scrotum and a subsequent potential cascade of problems that stem from poor testicular function. Varicocele is the Number 1 cause of male infertility, and I can tell you from my own personal experience that the symptoms that have been most pronounced are erectile dysfunction + desensitised, very low/zero libido, brain fog and general low mood and tiredness.

I believe I acquired the varicocele during adolescents where I also had gynecomastia, a condition believed to be caused by estrogen. So it came as no surprise when I found this study which found the condition was significantly correlated with varicocele: Relationship of adolescent gynecomastia with varicocele and somatometric parameters: a cross-sectional study in 6200 healthy boys. - PubMed - NCBI

This study shows that patients with varicocele had significantly lower levels of DHT, which probably explains some of the libido problems, and the distinct lack of facial hair I have:
Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone seminal plasma levels in varicocele patients. - PubMed - NCBI

At 20 these conditions are obviously unusually, especially considering my low prolactin level of 3 ng/ml. It seems despite all dietary and lifestyle interventions, nothing seems to turn these symptoms into remission. It also seems to have increased my TSH. Thyroid hormones made in testicles maybe? o_O

The main reason I wanted to post this is because for many years the varicocele had only very subtle symptoms, which weren't vividly noticeable. I still had a low libido and lack of confidence but I thought this was just a 'teen' thing and that eventually it would all subside. It wasn't until it enlarged to a grade 3 early last year (able to see veins outside the scrotum) that I put 2 and 2 together.

So for men who're not feeling 100% you may want to get checked out, and get it fixed. If anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them.
 

haidut

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Hi Everyone :)
So, this is actually my first post on the forum. I've been following and learning lots from here for a few months now, and I've been wanting to share this information for a while as I think it could enlighten people about something which is fairly common and appears to cause pretty sinister symptoms.

I am a 20 year old male and have a left sided grade 3 varicocele. For those who have no idea what a varicocele is ( I didn't ) then google is probably your best answer for an in depth explanation, but basically it is just enlarged veins of the scrotum, which feel like a bag of worms. The blood in these tortuous veins becomes stagnated leading to diminished blood flow to the scrotum and a subsequent potential cascade of problems that stem from poor testicular function. Varicocele is the Number 1 cause of male infertility, and I can tell you from my own personal experience that the symptoms that have been most pronounced are erectile dysfunction + desensitised, very low/zero libido, brain fog and general low mood and tiredness.

I believe I acquired the varicocele during adolescents where I also had gynecomastia, a condition believed to be caused by estrogen. So it came as no surprise when I found this study which found the condition was significantly correlated with varicocele: Relationship of adolescent gynecomastia with varicocele and somatometric parameters: a cross-sectional study in 6200 healthy boys. - PubMed - NCBI

This study shows that patients with varicocele had significantly lower levels of DHT, which probably explains some of the libido problems, and the distinct lack of facial hair I have:
Testosterone and dihydrotestosterone seminal plasma levels in varicocele patients. - PubMed - NCBI

At 20 these conditions are obviously unusually, especially considering my low prolactin level of 3 ng/ml. It seems despite all dietary and lifestyle interventions, nothing seems to turn these symptoms into remission. It also seems to have increased my TSH. Thyroid hormones made in testicles maybe? o_O

The main reason I wanted to post this is because for many years the varicocele had only very subtle symptoms, which weren't vividly noticeable. I still had a low libido and lack of confidence but I thought this was just a 'teen' thing and that eventually it would all subside. It wasn't until it enlarged to a grade 3 early last year (able to see veins outside the scrotum) that I put 2 and 2 together.

So for men who're not feeling 100% you may want to get checked out, and get it fixed. If anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them.

It is caused by high estrogen btw. Some people have had it reversed with topical aspirin, progesterone, or even vitamin E. But in some cases surgery is needed if the vein is really large and painful.
 
M

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I've had a varicocele in my left testicle since I was about 14. I'm now 29. I have lots of facial hair and body hair. I've never really suffered from ED. It used to cause me pain, but it seems less problematic now, and is also less pronounced, and more manageable. My mum has varicose veins, and in my case it's likely related to that. I do sometimes wonder to what extent it does contribute to low libido and brain fog, though.

Some people have had it reversed with topical aspirin, progesterone, or even vitamin E. But in some cases surgery is needed if the vein is really large and painful.

Can you direct me to any studies on this?
 
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Rock_V

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@waldenpond I don't think genetically I'm meant to be hairy looking at my family. But if you look up the symptoms of finasteride, my symptoms appear to be quite similar. Have you considered having it operated on in the past?
 
M

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@waldenpond I don't think genetically I'm meant to be hairy looking at my family. But if you look up the symptoms of finasteride, my symptoms appear to be quite similar. Have you considered having it operated on in the past?

I've considered it, but it's something I've been able to manage very well, and there are times when the swelling reduces considerably. Frequent masturbation, for example, definitely makes things worse... I was preaching the benefits of cutting out masturbation long before "No Fap". I barely ever suffer pain down there anymore, but there were periods in my early twenties that were rather unpleasant. I can attest to the fact that dietary and lifestyle interventions can make a difference.
 
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haidut

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I've had a varicocele in my left testicle since I was about 14. I'm now 29. I have lots of facial hair and body hair. I've never really suffered from ED. It used to cause me pain, but it seems less problematic now, and is also less pronounced, and more manageable. My mum has varicose veins, and in my case it's likely related to that. I do sometimes wonder to what extent it does contribute to low libido and brain fog, though.



Can you direct me to any studies on this?

I don't think there are studies but individual reports.
Rectal Administration Of Vitamin E For Treatment Of Degenerative Diseases

There are other similar reports online using topical DHT, tocopherol, aspirin, etc. You can Google it.
 
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Rock_V

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I've considered it, but it's something I've been able to manage very well, and there are times when the swelling reduces considerably. Frequent masturbation, for example, definitely makes things worse... I was preaching the benefits of cutting out masturbation long before "No Fap". I barely ever suffer pain down there anymore, but there were periods in my early twenties that were rather unpleasant. I can attest to the fact that dietary and lifestyle interventions can make a difference.

I know what you mean, masturbation definitely makes things worse. Morning wood and spontaneous erections feel like a thing of the past so I feel there is more of an need to get it operated on. Mine is not painful either other than playing sports. Eating a good diet obviously helps but I don't think I could completely reverse it, at this stage, without surgery.
 
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M

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I know what you mean, masturbation definitely makes things worse. Morning wood and spontaneous erections feel like a thing of the past so I feel there is more of an need to get it operated on. Mine is not painful either other than playing sports. Eating a good diet obviously helps but I don't think I could completely reverse it, at this stage, with surgery.

There was a really interesting discussion about it, somewhere in the depths of the internet, a few years back, where people were claiming that it was intimately connected with tension in the pelvic floor - some even said it was caused by this - and that by doing exercises/getting therapy to reduce this tension, the varicocele could be reversed. It wasn't very scientific, but I think there's some truth to it. Doing what you can to reduce pelvic floor tension or dysfunction will probably help. It helped me.

"(Relation between pelvic floor and varicocele) There is a MAJOR connection. The truth is that a true varicose vein in the scrotum is so highly unlikely that it's almost impossible. I've been told by several top uros and physical therapists that almost ALL so-called "varicoceles" are nothing more than congestion in the blood vessels due to muscle tension and inflammation in the abs, pelvic floor etc.

I was diagnosed with a Stage 2 varicocele and was scheduled for surgery to correct it. My left testicle had shrunk to less than half its normal size, I had severely low testosterone levels and a sperm count of literally zero. The surgeon rescheduled my operation at the last minute, thank god. Literally that day I stumbled upon the whole CPPS thing and enrolled in physical therapy. Within one week my testicle returned to normal size and started hanging normally again. Within two weeks my testosterone levels returned to normal. Within one month my wife was pregnant.

Get educated and understand how the blood vessels in and out of the testes actually work, where they travel etc. before putting yourself in danger with a useless operation from a lazy doctor. Doctors LOVE doing varicocele operations. It takes about 20 minutes and they get several thousand bucks from you (or your insurance company). What they don't tell you is that you'll probably be back within a year for another one. There are no valves in the veins of the scrotum, so it's pretty much impossible for a varicocele to even occur there. Your muscles are choking the blood vessels and causing them to engorge. Step on a running garden hose and the same thing will happen. Relieve the pressure and it will return to normal.

...

A real varicose vein happens when the valves of that vein fail. But the veins out of the testicles don't even have these kinds of valves, so it can't even happen. There are some urologists which acknowledge a varicocele caused by pressure. Sometimes they refer to this as "Nutcracker Syndrome". There is a good reason that 99% of varicoceles happen on the left side. The blood vessels of the left testicle take a completely different path than the right, traveling through a lot of twists, turns and muscles deep into the abdomen.

The connection with testosterone levels is quite simple, blood flow. Any body part needs adequate oxygenated blood flow to its job. Testosterone is produced when LH travels from the pituitary gland to the testes via the blood. Then the T that is produced in the testes must now travel out via blood vessels to the rest of the body. Hindering blood flow in either direction is obviously going to make it very difficult for them to do their job. It's fairly easily fixable. Get yourself to a qualified PT who specializes in pelvic issues. If that doesn't take care of it I'd be extremely surprised."

-some guy online
 
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Rock_V

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I have this :( Mirtazapine made all this stuff worse, hopefully its just all the extra weight I packed on, roughly 40lbs- went from 10% (confirmed by pro) to dad bod lol. I had gyno since teens but not the variocele since around that time period... I try to pretend it doesn't exist lol but I guess I've had high estrogen since puberty then.



So did you get surgery and all your symptoms improved or what??? It seems like no matter what the high estrogen "phenotype" (gyno, variecoles, varicose veins, hair loss, etc) just won't go away even with DHT, thyroid etc.



Would topical T3 be safer/more effective than progesterone given the region? I know I experienced negative effects down there when I was using large amounts of progesterone for overcoming TBI symptoms, I just don't entirely understand how progesterone exerts its anti-androgenic effects given what you've posted about 5-AR and the backdoor pathways, etc.

For topical aspirin is it necessary/much better to combine with sodium or magnesium (like just mixing with some baking soda or mag bicarb in vodka for 20% ethanol)?


I know, it's an awful thing which isn't very well understood.

No, I'm currently waiting for the subinguinal microsurgery operation, which is not a very common procedure in the U.K.

I was offered embolisation, but the microsurgical approach appears to have the least complications and seems pretty fool proof if you get it done by someone who is experienced.
 
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Rock_V

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There was a really interesting discussion about it, somewhere in the depths of the internet, a few years back, where people were claiming that it was intimately connected with tension in the pelvic floor - some even said it was caused by this - and that by doing exercises/getting therapy to reduce this tension, the varicocele could be reversed. It wasn't very scientific, but I think there's some truth to it. Doing what you can to reduce pelvic floor tension or dysfunction will probably help. It helped me.

"(Relation between pelvic floor and varicocele) There is a MAJOR connection. The truth is that a true varicose vein in the scrotum is so highly unlikely that it's almost impossible. I've been told by several top uros and physical therapists that almost ALL so-called "varicoceles" are nothing more than congestion in the blood vessels due to muscle tension and inflammation in the abs, pelvic floor etc.

I was diagnosed with a Stage 2 varicocele and was scheduled for surgery to correct it. My left testicle had shrunk to less than half its normal size, I had severely low testosterone levels and a sperm count of literally zero. The surgeon rescheduled my operation at the last minute, thank god. Literally that day I stumbled upon the whole CPPS thing and enrolled in physical therapy. Within one week my testicle returned to normal size and started hanging normally again. Within two weeks my testosterone levels returned to normal. Within one month my wife was pregnant.

Get educated and understand how the blood vessels in and out of the testes actually work, where they travel etc. before putting yourself in danger with a useless operation from a lazy doctor. Doctors LOVE doing varicocele operations. It takes about 20 minutes and they get several thousand bucks from you (or your insurance company). What they don't tell you is that you'll probably be back within a year for another one. There are no valves in the veins of the scrotum, so it's pretty much impossible for a varicocele to even occur there. Your muscles are choking the blood vessels and causing them to engorge. Step on a running garden hose and the same thing will happen. Relieve the pressure and it will return to normal.

...

A real varicose vein happens when the valves of that vein fail. But the veins out of the testicles don't even have these kinds of valves, so it can't even happen. There are some urologists which acknowledge a varicocele caused by pressure. Sometimes they refer to this as "Nutcracker Syndrome". There is a good reason that 99% of varicoceles happen on the left side. The blood vessels of the left testicle take a completely different path than the right, traveling through a lot of twists, turns and muscles deep into the abdomen.

The connection with testosterone levels is quite simple, blood flow. Any body part needs adequate oxygenated blood flow to its job. Testosterone is produced when LH travels from the pituitary gland to the testes via the blood. Then the T that is produced in the testes must now travel out via blood vessels to the rest of the body. Hindering blood flow in either direction is obviously going to make it very difficult for them to do their job. It's fairly easily fixable. Get yourself to a qualified PT who specializes in pelvic issues. If that doesn't take care of it I'd be extremely surprised."

-some guy online


Wow, I've never heard of this theory. I just find it strange how gyno and varicocele are connected. The varicocele did seem to enlarge when I was doing more heavy weight lifting (which could strain abdominals, I suppose).

I'm aware that some varicocele operations are risky, especially the non-microsurgical approach. I appreciate your insight, it's definitely something I will look into. :):
 
Joined
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There was a really interesting discussion about it, somewhere in the depths of the internet, a few years back, where people were claiming that it was intimately connected with tension in the pelvic floor - some even said it was caused by this - and that by doing exercises/getting therapy to reduce this tension, the varicocele could be reversed. It wasn't very scientific, but I think there's some truth to it. Doing what you can to reduce pelvic floor tension or dysfunction will probably help. It helped me.

"(Relation between pelvic floor and varicocele) There is a MAJOR connection. The truth is that a true varicose vein in the scrotum is so highly unlikely that it's almost impossible. I've been told by several top uros and physical therapists that almost ALL so-called "varicoceles" are nothing more than congestion in the blood vessels due to muscle tension and inflammation in the abs, pelvic floor etc.

I was diagnosed with a Stage 2 varicocele and was scheduled for surgery to correct it. My left testicle had shrunk to less than half its normal size, I had severely low testosterone levels and a sperm count of literally zero. The surgeon rescheduled my operation at the last minute, thank god. Literally that day I stumbled upon the whole CPPS thing and enrolled in physical therapy. Within one week my testicle returned to normal size and started hanging normally again. Within two weeks my testosterone levels returned to normal. Within one month my wife was pregnant.

Get educated and understand how the blood vessels in and out of the testes actually work, where they travel etc. before putting yourself in danger with a useless operation from a lazy doctor. Doctors LOVE doing varicocele operations. It takes about 20 minutes and they get several thousand bucks from you (or your insurance company). What they don't tell you is that you'll probably be back within a year for another one. There are no valves in the veins of the scrotum, so it's pretty much impossible for a varicocele to even occur there. Your muscles are choking the blood vessels and causing them to engorge. Step on a running garden hose and the same thing will happen. Relieve the pressure and it will return to normal.

...

A real varicose vein happens when the valves of that vein fail. But the veins out of the testicles don't even have these kinds of valves, so it can't even happen. There are some urologists which acknowledge a varicocele caused by pressure. Sometimes they refer to this as "Nutcracker Syndrome". There is a good reason that 99% of varicoceles happen on the left side. The blood vessels of the left testicle take a completely different path than the right, traveling through a lot of twists, turns and muscles deep into the abdomen.

The connection with testosterone levels is quite simple, blood flow. Any body part needs adequate oxygenated blood flow to its job. Testosterone is produced when LH travels from the pituitary gland to the testes via the blood. Then the T that is produced in the testes must now travel out via blood vessels to the rest of the body. Hindering blood flow in either direction is obviously going to make it very difficult for them to do their job. It's fairly easily fixable. Get yourself to a qualified PT who specializes in pelvic issues. If that doesn't take care of it I'd be extremely surprised."

-some guy online


Really interesting thoughts.

Can a PT understand this if i tell its i need a varicocele therapy?
 

Parsifal

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Have tried a lot of Peaty things in almost 2 years for my varicoceles but not any slight improvements yet.
 

mujuro

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My coworker developed a varicocele within months of being on finasteride. No surprise there.
 

Wagner83

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I have seen very little hints that fixing a varicocele would make any significant changes in anyone's life. Surgery does not mean the issue is fixed long term and as haidut suggested, it seems estrogen is at play, so is too much sitting and poor posture (among other things) imo. I notice that mine comes and goes during the day, sometimes it's almost inexistent. It makes sense that pelvic floor health could play a part too.

I've been told by several top uros and physical therapists that almost ALL so-called "varicoceles" are nothing more than congestion in the blood vessels due to muscle tension and inflammation in the abs, pelvic floor etc.
That makes a lot of sense.

In the study on dht and varicoceles they talk about "DHT in the ejaculate", how relevant is DHT seminal plasma levels? @haidut
 
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Rock_V

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@Wagner83

I'm not so sure man. Seems from what I've read on multiple forums that quite a few people who had estrogen dominance issues, such as gyno, have these problems cured by having their varicocele fixed. I remember reading one guy who said his testosterone injections weren't having much of an effect on his muscle gains after developing a varicocele.

I mean to me it would make sense. Hormones made in the testicles are hindered which may allow pituitary hormones to rise, possibly?

But, I personally seem to show very little estrogenic symptoms - no gyno, lean, low prolactin level. Still zero libido though.
 

Wagner83

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Yeh I'd look into other things than the varicocele, but would still try to take care of it with supplements like aspirin, vitamin E (recta administration?) , I think diosmin/rutin was mentioned somewhere else, the guy had to take it for 3 months , stop and do it a few more times before it went away "for good". Pycnogenol is something that really helped me with veins, I'm a bit annoyed by the research showing NO boosting properties, not sure if this is geared towards selling the product to the mass or true.
 
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Rock_V

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Yeh I'd look into other things than the varicocele, but would still try to take care of it with supplements like aspirin, vitamin E (recta administration?) , I think diosmin/rutin was mentioned somewhere else, the guy had to take it for 3 months , stop and do it a few more times before it went away "for good". Pycnogenol is something that really helped me with veins, I'm a bit annoyed by the research showing NO boosting properties, not sure if this is geared towards selling the product to the mass or true.

Yeah, I read about those on anabolic men.com before :) I've haven't tried any of those things, but I'm sort of desperate and feel like they're hit or miss. Maybe the NO effect has some helpful effects in the context of a varicocele.

I definitely believe the varicocele is 100% responsible for the libido issues, however. This article is interesting: https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ije/2011/916380/

I think something which has such a profoundly negative effect on male fertility (especially over the long run), and given vitamin E's role in enhancing fertility, a varicocele would surely impact erections and sex drive in a man.
 

Wagner83

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Yeah, I read about those on anabolic men.com before :) I've haven't tried any of those things, but I'm sort of desperate and feel like they're hit or miss. Maybe the NO effect has some helpful effects in the context of a varicocele.
As I understand it NO is defnitely negative for varicosed veins and would worsen them. Pycnogenol is the best otc supplement for vein health, but still it may boost NO production when the body needs to produce it. An other member suggested physicial therapy that may be an interesting route.
 

Queequeg

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I would suggest a course of high dose serrapeptase. This is a systemic enzyme that is known to help cure varicose veins by cleaning out dead cells around failing valves. I looked into whether or not testicular veins have valves and it seems it depends on the person. Some do and some don't though many theorize it is the failure of the venous valves in the abdomen that leads to testicular varicocele. I know first hand that serrapeptase dramatically shrunk my Mother's varicose veins and there is a lot of anecdotal reports of that on the web. These are also due to valve failure. So it may be worth a shot. As a bonus serrapeptase will also clean out any arterial sclerosis and excess fibrin so I would suggest its use for everyone.
 

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