Menopause, Progest-e And PMS-like?

Lizb

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Dr Peat recommended milk with sugar every two hours. He also recommended pregnenolone. I did milk and sugar for a reasonable length of time on two occasions. I just went to the loo more and got spots on my face.
I tried pregnenolone and hated the feeling and the flushing got worse. I stopped the pregnenolone.
I recently started antibiotics for a potential chest infection. I felt better within half an hour but I had flushing so bad I couldn't sleep ... It was continuous day and night so stopped that too.
Considering flushing produces seratonin, toxic prolactin and something else which I can't remember, I conclude flushing is a serious issue for us women for which there appears no easy, clear or understanble solution. Oh how I wish there was. Buteyko promises it will clear it but I still haven't got my numbers to a place where that can happen.
 
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Xisca

Xisca

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Yeah Liz, it sucks and it is discouraging to find solutions!
Eating too often made my stomach suffer!
A long time ago, I "cured" sb from those spots by the advice to stop sugar and dairy, and eat o lot of veggies, and it worked!

Buteyko exercise is fine when you need to relax by slowing breathing and increasing co2, because it has a parasympathetic action. But this is not to be looked for on a permanent basis. Our nervous system needs to vary according to the circumstances.

Actually, the things I did that helped me included increasing my breathing, but with slow deep breathing of course, not hyperventilating. Then having less meals but big and with loads of veggies, to regulate the blood sugar. And I put back animal proteins into my dinner meals! If not, I was having some stomach pain.
 

kaybb

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Hi, @lisaferraro!!! :wavingyellow

TL;DR: @Xisca, sounds like you're full-blown into menopause. Probably don't need much progesterone any more. I'd just stop taking the progesterone or dramatically decrease the amount. Then keep eating clean and healthy, low fat. See what happens.

Here's the long post for anyone who's interested:

I've been going through some stuff past couple months that has solidified my opinion that LIVER HEALTH is at the root of most if not all female problems. If we can't metabolize estrogen and progesterone properly, and can't make steroid hormones properly (manufacture of hormones requires bile which is manufactured in the liver), then we get all out of whack.

I've also come to the conclusion that Ray Peat way of eating is really not a good to clean out the liver for most of us. If you're young OR have only minor health problems OR you catch your health problems early enough, it's a reasonably healthy shift, as long as you don't go too high fat.

But for most of us, putting the coffee and extra fructose and/or sugar into a system with severe or long standing health problems (and therefore probably a clogged liver) is a recipe for disaster. This is one reason I think many if not most people struggle with Peat style.

Please note the bolding of the text above to call attention to those remarks. This bolding is for those who will take exception to this post. I am NOT categorically disavowing Peat! In point of fact, I am currently following many of his recommendations on my way back to health. He's got some good ideas, and he's dramatically enlarged my health worldview.

He's spot on about glycine and gelatin bone broth, for example. Also about the need to not fear fructose. Just to name a couple things he's right about.

BUT in the context of the shape that most of us are in when we arrive on this board, I hold fast to my opinion (born of hard experience) that Popular Peat Style in an already unbalanced system is not good for us, and may actually do harm if the ubiquitous recommendations for lots of coffee, fruit juice and extra sugar and the like are followed.

I strongly believe Peat is dead wrong about caffeine as a nutrient. Daily caffeine/coffee is a [unfortunately yummy] drug that is an unnecessary stimulant in people who are healthy.

Taken daily as part of regular dietary habits, coffee and caffeine are also wreckers of the delicate acid/base balance in the body. It needlessly acidifies the system, requiring many extra nutrients to balance and metabolize it, thus putting more stress on our already strained tissues and livers. Sugar in coffee without a bunch of extra minerals to balance it is a recipe for disaster. Copious amounts of orange juice and milk can't overcome or even provide daily counterbalance to the ongoing demineralization caused by acidic coffee, especially in an already unbalanced, demineralized system.

I've come to the further conclusion that Peat is COMPLETELY WRONG about starch, at least in people who don't already have a preponderance of bad gut bacteria. But most of us do, so hence some of the problems with starch. However, in most of us, upping fruit intake causes many of the same problems, because gut bacteria also feed on fruit. But in a clean system, starch presents no problems at all.

I also think he's wrong about mixing starch and fructose, but again, the caveat is that he's right for most people living in our modern environment with a preponderance of bad gut flora.

Main point to this rant is that progesterone supplementation is not nearly as important as getting the liver cleaned out so we can find and maintain our own progesterone/estrogen balance.

Further point is that the Peat recs of daily coffee, sugar, and extra fructose are NOT the way to clean out the liver, and supplementing progesterone on top of these strategies yields less than optimal results.

But if we get the liver cleaned out, we probably won't need progesterone supplementation, or at least very little.

Unfortunately, most of us won't take the steps necessary to let the liver clean itself out. I'm taking them, but I've been forced by hard circumstances. These hard circumstances were brought about in large part by my shift to Peat style of eating the dramatically increased amounts of coffee, sugar, and fruit juice as recommended on this board. I say this as someone who knows her body and has been trying different lifestyle mods to improve health for a looooong time. It was my shift to Peat Style that was the catalyst for my serious problems.

NOW I'm eating bone/gelatin broth (fat skimmed), lots of potatoes, some eggs, some seafood, egg shell calcium, small amount of fruit, 10oz or less OJ per day, and some veggies like collards. That's it. No coffee, sugar, milk, no copious amounts of fruit juice, or any hormone supplementation.

Basically potatoes are my staple. I peel them and parboil them until the soapy scum forms on the top of the pot. Then I pour off that water, rinse the potatoes, and re-boil them until tender enough to mash up in some broth. I think this gets rid of some of the nightshade compounds that can be problematic in potatoes, although there's no way to prove that. Soaking or parboiling food is a known way to get rid of bacteria and other undesirables in food, however. I parboil my bones and oxtails to get rid of bacteria that sometimes makes the broth taste off, too.

On this starch-rich, protein-rich, low-fat diet my fibroids are shrinking and I have very few mood or PMS symptoms now. Any symptoms I have are very mild and transient. They don't persist over any length of time. My thyroid seems to be functioning well...I stay warm throughout the day and my pulse is in the '70's. I have never believed that Peat is right about high pulse rate, although time and increasingly good health may prove me wrong about that. We'll see.

I gained back 30lbs eating Popular Peat Style, but now I'm losing unwanted weight, particularly around the belly where I'd gained it back. I seem to be keeping muscle and losing fat.

Worth noting is that I am also undereating temporarily to facilitate some clean out and to give my poor, tired system a break. But I definitely don't plan to undereat as a long-term lifestyle.

I also plan to add some things like milk and cheese back into my diet later, as I love them and don't want to live without them forever. But milk products are known to be insulinogenic, which can aggravate existing metabolic problems, and I also believe that milk products put some extra stress on the system to digest and metabolize. So now, while I'm in healing mode, I'm living without.

My blood sugar is almost completely normalized. Just a smidge above 100 and going down rapidly. I've been insulin resistant with pre-diabetic blood sugars for year, although various interventions would bring it down some. But eating Popular Peat Style, my blood sugar had gone back up into the 12o's or low 130's and and wouldn't budge.

I'm sleeping 6 hours a pop without waking up to pee. For many years, my fibroids and hormone dysregulation have only allowed me to sleep (at most) 4 hours at a time without waking up.

I may make another post in an appropriate forum about exactly what I've gone through to provoke this drastic lifestyle change, but this post is not the appropriate place to explicate. This narrative is just background to give context to my declarations about the liver and hormones, and the need or not to supplement with progesterone.
Thank you for posting this. What have you done specifically to improve your liver function? I've tried the caffine route that was suggested on the forum, last year. I'm ready for something else.
 
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Xisca

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I had never been a coffee drinker, and now I drink coffee and my liver is worse than ever before, so... I do not know for what type of liver problem coffee is useful, but for mine it was not!
 
L

lollipop

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Thank you for posting this. What have you done specifically to improve your liver function? I've tried the caffine route that was suggested on the forum, last year. I'm ready for something else.
Hi @kaybb, I am not @whodathunkit but what I have done are a few things:

1) one 500mg capsule of milk thistle daily for one bottle - stopped for a few months and did a second bottle. Really helped me.

2) As my glycogen improved, I ate nutrient dense meals and then waited to eat for 3-4 hours to give the liver a rest from processing. Now I eat 3 good meals and only rarely feel a need to snack.

3) Worked on my GI health. Gut has become much better.

4) reduced supplements as I felt better. Now do not feel a need to take many.

5) Took one 500mg of turmeric daily again like above for one bottle, rested and took it again. That was all I needed it seemed.

6) Began drinking an 8oz glass my own fresh squeezed lemon juice with honey and water before breakfast maybe 4-5 days a week.

7) Eat Peat friendly food - nutrient dense.

Hope these help!
 
L

lollipop

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I had never been a coffee drinker, and now I drink coffee and my liver is worse than ever before, so... I do not know for what type of liver problem coffee is useful, but for mine it was not!
I noticed as my liver recovered and metabolism recovered coffee stopped being a problem. I drink it not specifically targeting liver health (if it helps great - not my focus) but mainly because the coffee I drink is sooo incredibly yummmy :):
 
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Xisca

Xisca

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I noticed as my liver recovered and metabolism recovered coffee stopped being a problem. I drink it not specifically targeting liver health (if it helps great - not my focus) but mainly because the coffee I drink is sooo incredibly yummmy :):
Ho, I do not mean at all that coffee is a problem! But that my liver is worse than before. So I cannot say it helped it.
Also, I do not store glycogene as before and had to eat more and more often. And coffee is needed now, and it was not needed before.
 
L

lollipop

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Ho, I do not mean at all that coffee is a problem! But that my liver is worse than before. So I cannot say it helped it.
Also, I do not store glycogene as before and had to eat more and more often. And coffee is needed now, and it was not needed before.
Wishing you get better! I noticed you are contributing on the other forum now. Hopefully that will help you ❤️ Main thing is that we all get in better health!! My wish for everyone :): and especially you as I can see your sincerity in seeking answers.
 

kaybb

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Hi @kaybb, I am not @whodathunkit but what I have done are a few things:

1) one 500mg capsule of milk thistle daily for one bottle - stopped for a few months and did a second bottle. Really helped me.

2) As my glycogen improved, I ate nutrient dense meals and then waited to eat for 3-4 hours to give the liver a rest from processing. Now I eat 3 good meals and only rarely feel a need to snack.

3) Worked on my GI health. Gut has become much better.

4) reduced supplements as I felt better. Now do not feel a need to take many.

5) Took one 500mg of turmeric daily again like above for one bottle, rested and took it again. That was all I needed it seemed.

6) Began drinking an 8oz glass my own fresh squeezed lemon juice with honey and water before breakfast maybe 4-5 days a week.

7) Eat Peat friendly food - nutrient dense.

Hope these help!
Thank you for the info! I have been thinking about lemon water. Good to hear about milk thistle and tuneric also.
 

kaybb

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Wishing you get better! I noticed you are contributing on the other forum now. Hopefully that will help you ❤️ Main thing is that we all get in better health!! My wish for everyone :): and especially you as I can see your sincerity in seeking answers.
Could you give me the "other forum" info?
 
L

lollipop

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Could you give me the "other forum" info?
My apologies @kaybb, I went there a while back and deleted. Maybe @Xisca knows. When I saw people bashing the forum, it had a weird vibe to me. I am more interested in embracing and not dividing.
 

kaybb

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My apologies @kaybb, I went there a while back and deleted. Maybe @Xisca knows. When I saw people bashing the forum, it had a weird vibe to me. I am more interested in embracing and not dividing.
Yes! I stress, especially after Peating for going on 3 years and not enough progress happening ..
 
L

lollipop

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Yes! I stress, especially after Peating for going on 3 years and not enough progress happening ..
For me the biggest factor was eating healthy mixed macro meals, good animal proteins: beef, lamb, chicken, oysters, adding in some starch in the form of potatoes and white Jasmine rice, using only Sat fat and EVOO in moderate quantities (maybe 50-60gms if fat a day) NOT low and NOT high fat, otherwise keeping PUFA low, eating Peat friendly veggies and fruit, having one glass of 8-12oz of 2% milk daily, and fresh lemon water one glass daily, and moderate fructose/sucrose like honey and maple syrup rather than large quantities. After my liver improved, my ability to increase the time between meals made a big difference. In essence for me, eating food was the key not drinking tons of liquid. ALSO @kaybb, it took me about 2 years and a few months to feel this way of eating kick in. Now doing good and losing weight.

Also, I do yoga and meditation daily (2 separate activities), bounce on the rebounder 2-3 times a week, consciously focus on remaining present to life in all its ups and downs AND remaining in radical communication with my husband (grown our intimacy immensely).

As you can tell it might not be all “Peaty”, rather Peat inspired and I do feel it paying off now. Took a while :):
 
L

lollipop

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PS @kaybb, I joined the forum one month before you ❤️ I had just started shifting my diet. Don’t give up! Tweak to make it work for you, if even only reducing PUFA. That single action alone is worth soooo much and will bring great rewards over time!
 
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Xisca

Xisca

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After my liver improved, my ability to increase the time between meals made a big difference.
The other way round for me... Eating more meals is what made my liver worse! I had to increase time between meals to get a difference! I am going to bed now, and I feel a bit hungry, but I wake up no more.... Strange uh! I was eating just before bed, like dairy and honey, and would not make the whole night, and was eating all day long... and flushing more.
 
L

lollipop

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The other way round for me... Eating more meals is what made my liver worse! I had to increase time between meals to get a difference! I am going to bed now, and I feel a bit hungry, but I wake up no more.... Strange uh! I was eating just before bed, like dairy and honey, and would not make the whole night, and was eating all day long... and flushing more.
Actually @Xisca That is what I said :): increased TIME IN between meals ❤️ I only eat 3 times a day now!! No need to snack.
 
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Xisca

Xisca

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Actually @Xisca That is what I said :): increased TIME IN between meals ❤️ I only eat 3 times a day now!! No need to snack.
Well, you said AFTER your liver improved, and for me it was BEFORE it improved!
It was the necessary condition to improve, and also up the veggies a lot compared to fruits. Sugar and even fruits or raw honey was making me eating more and more, and i could not keep energy the whole night.
 
L

lollipop

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Well, you said AFTER your liver improved, and for me it was BEFORE it improved!
It was the necessary condition to improve, and also up the veggies a lot compared to fruits. Sugar and even fruits or raw honey was making me eating more and more, and i could not keep energy the whole night.
I have to say I think it was both before and after - lol. If that is even possible?!?! When I started eating more sugar carbs, like you I had to eat almost every hour - yikes. Then my liver improved and I started needing to eat less and that improved my liver and then I started only needing 3 nutrient dense meals and I can last all night now.

This has been a fun learning sometimes frustrating journey, but I would not trade it for anything ❤️ I have learned soooo much. Glad you are still participating here @Xisca!
 

kaybb

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For me the biggest factor was eating healthy mixed macro meals, good animal proteins: beef, lamb, chicken, oysters, adding in some starch in the form of potatoes and white Jasmine rice, using only Sat fat and EVOO in moderate quantities (maybe 50-60gms if fat a day) NOT low and NOT high fat, otherwise keeping PUFA low, eating Peat friendly veggies and fruit, having one glass of 8-12oz of 2% milk daily, and fresh lemon water one glass daily, and moderate fructose/sucrose like honey and maple syrup rather than large quantities. After my liver improved, my ability to increase the time between meals made a big difference. In essence for me, eating food was the key not drinking tons of liquid. ALSO @kaybb, it took me about 2 years and a few months to feel this way of eating kick in. Now doing good and losing weight.

Also, I do yoga and meditation daily (2 separate activities), bounce on the rebounder 2-3 times a week, consciously focus on remaining present to life in all its ups and downs AND remaining in radical communication with my husband (grown our intimacy immensely).

As you can tell it might not be all “Peaty”, rather Peat inspired and I do feel it paying off now. Took a while :):
Thank you for this great info. This helps me so much. I want to keep at it. I love Peaty ice cream... I probably should watch that. I like your food suggestions, keeping it simple but high nutrition.
 

kaybb

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PS @kaybb, I joined the forum one month before you ❤️ I had just started shifting my diet. Don’t give up! Tweak to make it work for you, if even only reducing PUFA. That single action alone is worth soooo much and will bring great rewards over time!
Good advice !! Just what I needed right now
 

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