Menopause, Progest-e And PMS-like?

[Xisca]

My last period was just 1 year ago. I have been taking progest-e for a long time. It did not stop my hot flashes, except if I took often starch up to the point of wanting to eat all the time like crazy. Eat a lot of fruits often does stop flashes.
BUT now my flashes stopped AND I have PMS-LIKE symptoms.
I mean that my breasts are a bit swollen and Hurt. Also some ovary place diffuse pain.
I thought this was ESTROGENE signs!
Any explanación, so that I can decide what to do? Thanks

 

[SQu]

Hi Xisca
I have had big problems with all these symptoms. There have been patches when I get breast pain and itch in nipples and vitex helps a lot, in fact, the symptoms go away completely. I think it's the prolactin. Estrogen lowering measures don't help it but vitex does.I don't need it all the time, a few months on and then it's a few years before I need it again. I'm still cycling but am technically menopausal I suppose, having missed a few.
I had big problems with PMS in the past but it's very mild now. So I find the estrogen lowering measures - mostly the progesterone - help a lot with PMS but not with breast pain.
Flushing is a problem for me too, but again, a different thing helps there, and that is clonidine. Again, doesn't help the breast pain. But all in all, fortunately, this group of symptoms is much improved. (Wish I could say the same for some others...)
Hope that helps.

 

[lollipop]

This is a good question @Xisca. Pre, Post, & Menopausal problems seem sooooo tricky and not sure I have seen an abundance of solutions. I sort of want to call in some experienced voices like @SQu above. I was thinking @whodathunkit, @Ella, @tara and anyone else who I forgot (forgive me!).

 

[tara]

I'm no expert, and trying to figure out for myself too.
I used progest-e for quite while, gradually increasing doses, then went back to small regular doses, and now down to none.
Perimenopausal.

I had a bigger appetite while I was supplementing it - that could have been the cause, but not sure, because other factors have changed too. I got a mixture of symptoms that I associated with progesterone (improved head symptoms immediately after dosing, better milk tolerance, stronger appetite) and estrogen (eg varicose veins), but I'm not an expert, so not sure, and various other things changed at the same time, including gaining weight, and some of the symptoms could have been related to the other changes too.

I used to get night sweats, which I tend to think of as related to hot flushes, before I'd tried supplementing anything. They largely stopped a few years ago - I thought it was when I ate more, but lately I've not been eating so much, and they're not back. Could have been related to hyperventilating at night, which I've much improved - now mostly manage to sleep with mouth shut. Or who knows what it was about,

According to Peat and others, the liver gets more efficient at excreting progesterone if you supplement regularly, presumably more so at higher doses. (I guess you've read other opinion here recently about possible reduced sensitivity to from supplementation as well - I don't know whether that's substantiated.)

My decision to reduce and stop supplementing progest-e was as much following intuition as anything. I've thought of resuming cyclicly, but just not quite felt like it, and so far honouring that.

 

[lollipop]

My decision to reduce and stop supplementing progest-e was as much following intuition as anything. I've thought of resuming cyclicly, but just not quite felt like it, and so far honouring that.

This is exactly what has happened to me. Today was my day to start my two week cyclic dose of progesterone and I have simply not felt like taking it. Not sure why? Sort of like @tara said, is more of an intuition rather than backed by data or logic in my case anyway - not implying Tara’s case was without logic - lol - want to be careful how that comes out

 

[Xisca]

I wrote with my phone... I wanted to say that Eating a lot of fruits and often does NOT stop flushes.
@lisaferraro and @tara I understand this instinct, as it happened many time with supp or even homeopathy: when I do not need it, I forget about it!
But it does not work all the time, if there is a difference between long term and short term interest maybe...

There have been patches when I get breast pain and itch in nipples and vitex helps a lot, in fact, the symptoms go away completely. I think it's the prolactin.

Vitex, I know this plant but never took it. On what is it acting?
Do you have more informations about how is prolactin involved? And what is happening to progesterone? Tara, you mention this of the receptors... but also, does the body eliminate the extra progesterone, or transfor it into something else? My liver is not very good and you mention its role...

My symptoms are not very strong and I never had strong PMS, lucky me! But I want to understand what is strange! Many things seem to be like a balance,or let's say an unbalance changing from one side to the other! eg the flushes disapear and the semi pms arrives.... I did notice this before, it is not the first time, so there is something to track as hounds!

 

[tara]

but also, does the body eliminate the extra progesterone, or transfor it into something else? My liver is not very good and you mention its role...

I don't know details - I heard Peat talk about it in one of the interviews linked on the Portal page - I think it was one of the Herb Doctor - Precautionary Principle ones.

 

[whodathunkit]

Hi, @lisaferraro!!!

TL;DR: @Xisca, sounds like you're full-blown into menopause. Probably don't need much progesterone any more. I'd just stop taking the progesterone or dramatically decrease the amount. Then keep eating clean and healthy, low fat. See what happens.

Here's the long post for anyone who's interested:

I've been going through some stuff past couple months that has solidified my opinion that LIVER HEALTH is at the root of most if not all female problems. If we can't metabolize estrogen and progesterone properly, and can't make steroid hormones properly (manufacture of hormones requires bile which is manufactured in the liver), then we get all out of whack.

I've also come to the conclusion that Ray Peat way of eating is really not a good to clean out the liver for most of us. If you're young OR have only minor health problems OR you catch your health problems early enough, it's a reasonably healthy shift, as long as you don't go too high fat.

But for most of us, putting the coffee and extra fructose and/or sugar into a system with severe or long standing health problems (and therefore probably a clogged liver) is a recipe for disaster. This is one reason I think many if not most people struggle with Peat style.

Please note the bolding of the text above to call attention to those remarks. This bolding is for those who will take exception to this post. I am NOT categorically disavowing Peat! In point of fact, I am currently following many of his recommendations on my way back to health. He's got some good ideas, and he's dramatically enlarged my health worldview.

He's spot on about glycine and gelatin bone broth, for example. Also about the need to not fear fructose. Just to name a couple things he's right about.

BUT in the context of the shape that most of us are in when we arrive on this board, I hold fast to my opinion (born of hard experience) that Popular Peat Style in an already unbalanced system is not good for us, and may actually do harm if the ubiquitous recommendations for lots of coffee, fruit juice and extra sugar and the like are followed.

I strongly believe Peat is dead wrong about caffeine as a nutrient. Daily caffeine/coffee is a [unfortunately yummy] drug that is an unnecessary stimulant in people who are healthy.

Taken daily as part of regular dietary habits, coffee and caffeine are also wreckers of the delicate acid/base balance in the body. It needlessly acidifies the system, requiring many extra nutrients to balance and metabolize it, thus putting more stress on our already strained tissues and livers. Sugar in coffee without a bunch of extra minerals to balance it is a recipe for disaster. Copious amounts of orange juice and milk can't overcome or even provide daily counterbalance to the ongoing demineralization caused by acidic coffee, especially in an already unbalanced, demineralized system.

I've come to the further conclusion that Peat is COMPLETELY WRONG about starch, at least in people who don't already have a preponderance of bad gut bacteria. But most of us do, so hence some of the problems with starch. However, in most of us, upping fruit intake causes many of the same problems, because gut bacteria also feed on fruit. But in a clean system, starch presents no problems at all.

I also think he's wrong about mixing starch and fructose, but again, the caveat is that he's right for most people living in our modern environment with a preponderance of bad gut flora.

Main point to this rant is that progesterone supplementation is not nearly as important as getting the liver cleaned out so we can find and maintain our own progesterone/estrogen balance.

Further point is that the Peat recs of daily coffee, sugar, and extra fructose are NOT the way to clean out the liver, and supplementing progesterone on top of these strategies yields less than optimal results.

But if we get the liver cleaned out, we probably won't need progesterone supplementation, or at least very little.

Unfortunately, most of us won't take the steps necessary to let the liver clean itself out. I'm taking them, but I've been forced by hard circumstances. These hard circumstances were brought about in large part by my shift to Peat style of eating the dramatically increased amounts of coffee, sugar, and fruit juice as recommended on this board. I say this as someone who knows her body and has been trying different lifestyle mods to improve health for a looooong time. It was my shift to Peat Style that was the catalyst for my serious problems.

NOW I'm eating bone/gelatin broth (fat skimmed), lots of potatoes, some eggs, some seafood, egg shell calcium, small amount of fruit, 10oz or less OJ per day, and some veggies like collards. That's it. No coffee, sugar, milk, no copious amounts of fruit juice, or any hormone supplementation.

Basically potatoes are my staple. I peel them and parboil them until the soapy scum forms on the top of the pot. Then I pour off that water, rinse the potatoes, and re-boil them until tender enough to mash up in some broth. I think this gets rid of some of the nightshade compounds that can be problematic in potatoes, although there's no way to prove that. Soaking or parboiling food is a known way to get rid of bacteria and other undesirables in food, however. I parboil my bones and oxtails to get rid of bacteria that sometimes makes the broth taste off, too.

On this starch-rich, protein-rich, low-fat diet my fibroids are shrinking and I have very few mood or PMS symptoms now. Any symptoms I have are very mild and transient. They don't persist over any length of time. My thyroid seems to be functioning well...I stay warm throughout the day and my pulse is in the '70's. I have never believed that Peat is right about high pulse rate, although time and increasingly good health may prove me wrong about that. We'll see.

I gained back 30lbs eating Popular Peat Style, but now I'm losing unwanted weight, particularly around the belly where I'd gained it back. I seem to be keeping muscle and losing fat.

Worth noting is that I am also undereating temporarily to facilitate some clean out and to give my poor, tired system a break. But I definitely don't plan to undereat as a long-term lifestyle.

I also plan to add some things like milk and cheese back into my diet later, as I love them and don't want to live without them forever. But milk products are known to be insulinogenic, which can aggravate existing metabolic problems, and I also believe that milk products put some extra stress on the system to digest and metabolize. So now, while I'm in healing mode, I'm living without.

My blood sugar is almost completely normalized. Just a smidge above 100 and going down rapidly. I've been insulin resistant with pre-diabetic blood sugars for year, although various interventions would bring it down some. But eating Popular Peat Style, my blood sugar had gone back up into the 12o's or low 130's and and wouldn't budge.

I'm sleeping 6 hours a pop without waking up to pee. For many years, my fibroids and hormone dysregulation have only allowed me to sleep (at most) 4 hours at a time without waking up.

I may make another post in an appropriate forum about exactly what I've gone through to provoke this drastic lifestyle change, but this post is not the appropriate place to explicate. This narrative is just background to give context to my declarations about the liver and hormones, and the need or not to supplement with progesterone.

 

[Xisca]

@whodathunkit thanks! More and more people have been saying what works and what not in the forum. As we are all different, this is healthy to state. It is not even about right or wrong, but about finding out what works for who!

I am still with some progest-e, as I do not think I have problems with it, but will stop when the bottle tells me so.
My symptoms are settling and I am still off flushes!

I got results very quick and with very little diet change. I just eat less fruits and nothing before going to bed. And a green bitter salad including dandelion and artichoke leaves, with a lot of olive oil and orange juice for ...breakfast.

My liver has gone bad too! Some test give me problems with phase I and II detox. Lowering olive oil and going up coconut oil was mainly the culprit, as I got a super change by taking orange juice with olive oil in the morning, before making it "green cold soup" style. I mix my greens with cucumber, olive oil and orange or lemon juice. Then also turmeric, milk thistle and olive leaves.

 

[InChristAlone]

Hi, @lisaferraro!!!

TL;DR: @Xisca, sounds like you're full-blown into menopause. Probably don't need much progesterone any more. I'd just stop taking the progesterone or dramatically decrease the amount. Then keep eating clean and healthy, low fat. See what happens.

Here's the long post for anyone who's interested:

I've been going through some stuff past couple months that has solidified my opinion that LIVER HEALTH is at the root of most if not all female problems. If we can't metabolize estrogen and progesterone properly, and can't make steroid hormones properly (manufacture of hormones requires bile which is manufactured in the liver), then we get all out of whack.

I've also come to the conclusion that Ray Peat way of eating is really not a good to clean out the liver for most of us. If you're young OR have only minor health problems OR you catch your health problems early enough, it's a reasonably healthy shift, as long as you don't go too high fat.

But for most of us, putting the coffee and extra fructose and/or sugar into a system with severe or long standing health problems (and therefore probably a clogged liver) is a recipe for disaster. This is one reason I think many if not most people struggle with Peat style.

Please note the bolding of the text above to call attention to those remarks. This bolding is for those who will take exception to this post. I am NOT categorically disavowing Peat! In point of fact, I am currently following many of his recommendations on my way back to health. He's got some good ideas, and he's dramatically enlarged my health worldview.

He's spot on about glycine and gelatin bone broth, for example. Also about the need to not fear fructose. Just to name a couple things he's right about.

BUT in the context of the shape that most of us are in when we arrive on this board, I hold fast to my opinion (born of hard experience) that Popular Peat Style in an already unbalanced system is not good for us, and may actually do harm if the ubiquitous recommendations for lots of coffee, fruit juice and extra sugar and the like are followed.

I strongly believe Peat is dead wrong about caffeine as a nutrient. Daily caffeine/coffee is a [unfortunately yummy] drug that is an unnecessary stimulant in people who are healthy.

Taken daily as part of regular dietary habits, coffee and caffeine are also wreckers of the delicate acid/base balance in the body. It needlessly acidifies the system, requiring many extra nutrients to balance and metabolize it, thus putting more stress on our already strained tissues and livers. Sugar in coffee without a bunch of extra minerals to balance it is a recipe for disaster. Copious amounts of orange juice and milk can't overcome or even provide daily counterbalance to the ongoing demineralization caused by acidic coffee, especially in an already unbalanced, demineralized system.

I've come to the further conclusion that Peat is COMPLETELY WRONG about starch, at least in people who don't already have a preponderance of bad gut bacteria. But most of us do, so hence some of the problems with starch. However, in most of us, upping fruit intake causes many of the same problems, because gut bacteria also feed on fruit. But in a clean system, starch presents no problems at all.

I also think he's wrong about mixing starch and fructose, but again, the caveat is that he's right for most people living in our modern environment with a preponderance of bad gut flora.

Main point to this rant is that progesterone supplementation is not nearly as important as getting the liver cleaned out so we can find and maintain our own progesterone/estrogen balance.

Further point is that the Peat recs of daily coffee, sugar, and extra fructose are NOT the way to clean out the liver, and supplementing progesterone on top of these strategies yields less than optimal results.

But if we get the liver cleaned out, we probably won't need progesterone supplementation, or at least very little.

Unfortunately, most of us won't take the steps necessary to let the liver clean itself out. I'm taking them, but I've been forced by hard circumstances. These hard circumstances were brought about in large part by my shift to Peat style of eating the dramatically increased amounts of coffee, sugar, and fruit juice as recommended on this board. I say this as someone who knows her body and has been trying different lifestyle mods to improve health for a looooong time. It was my shift to Peat Style that was the catalyst for my serious problems.

NOW I'm eating bone/gelatin broth (fat skimmed), lots of potatoes, some eggs, some seafood, egg shell calcium, small amount of fruit, 10oz or less OJ per day, and some veggies like collards. That's it. No coffee, sugar, milk, no copious amounts of fruit juice, or any hormone supplementation.

Basically potatoes are my staple. I peel them and parboil them until the soapy scum forms on the top of the pot. Then I pour off that water, rinse the potatoes, and re-boil them until tender enough to mash up in some broth. I think this gets rid of some of the nightshade compounds that can be problematic in potatoes, although there's no way to prove that. Soaking or parboiling food is a known way to get rid of bacteria and other undesirables in food, however. I parboil my bones and oxtails to get rid of bacteria that sometimes makes the broth taste off, too.

On this starch-rich, protein-rich, low-fat diet my fibroids are shrinking and I have very few mood or PMS symptoms now. Any symptoms I have are very mild and transient. They don't persist over any length of time. My thyroid seems to be functioning well...I stay warm throughout the day and my pulse is in the '70's. I have never believed that Peat is right about high pulse rate, although time and increasingly good health may prove me wrong about that. We'll see.

I gained back 30lbs eating Popular Peat Style, but now I'm losing unwanted weight, particularly around the belly where I'd gained it back. I seem to be keeping muscle and losing fat.

Worth noting is that I am also undereating temporarily to facilitate some clean out and to give my poor, tired system a break. But I definitely don't plan to undereat as a long-term lifestyle.

I also plan to add some things like milk and cheese back into my diet later, as I love them and don't want to live without them forever. But milk products are known to be insulinogenic, which can aggravate existing metabolic problems, and I also believe that milk products put some extra stress on the system to digest and metabolize. So now, while I'm in healing mode, I'm living without.

My blood sugar is almost completely normalized. Just a smidge above 100 and going down rapidly. I've been insulin resistant with pre-diabetic blood sugars for year, although various interventions would bring it down some. But eating Popular Peat Style, my blood sugar had gone back up into the 12o's or low 130's and and wouldn't budge.

I'm sleeping 6 hours a pop without waking up to pee. For many years, my fibroids and hormone dysregulation have only allowed me to sleep (at most) 4 hours at a time without waking up.

I may make another post in an appropriate forum about exactly what I've gone through to provoke this drastic lifestyle change, but this post is not the appropriate place to explicate. This narrative is just background to give context to my declarations about the liver and hormones, and the need or not to supplement with progesterone.

I agree that coffee can throw off mineral balance.
I have healed a lot off all caffeine.

 

[Xisca]

I started coffee 2 years ago... Before that, I was drinking occasional one outside. I am not sure in what cases coffee helps, or not...

 

[lollipop]

@whodathunkit thanks! More and more people have been saying what works and what not in the forum. As we are all different, this is healthy to state. It is not even about right or wrong, but about finding out what works for who!

I am still with some progest-e, as I do not think I have problems with it, but will stop when the bottle tells me so.
My symptoms are settling and I am still off flushes!

I got results very quick and with very little diet change. I just eat less fruits and nothing before going to bed. And a green bitter salad including dandelion and artichoke leaves, with a lot of olive oil and orange juice for ...breakfast.

My liver has gone bad too! Some test give me problems with phase I and II detox. Lowering olive oil and going up coconut oil was mainly the culprit, as I got a super change by taking orange juice with olive oil in the morning, before making it "green cold soup" style. I mix my greens with cucumber, olive oil and orange or lemon juice. Then also turmeric, milk thistle and olive leaves.

Thoughtful post @whodathunkit!! Thank you for taking the time I soooo agree about the liver! First thing to work on

 

[sweetpeat]

I'm a couple of years into menopause. Up until about 6 mos ago I was still trying to cycle the progesterone (2wks on/off). Then like some of the others above, I just stopped. I think I just forgot to take it for a few days and didn't notice any difference. Even Peat said it shouldn't be necessary to take it indefinitely, I think because it promotes its own synthesis. I use it now topically on an "as needed" basis. Like for a pulled muscle or when I had a cyst under my arm. Cleared that thing right up. Red light may be just as effective though - I haven't tried it.

@whodathunkit I agree with a lot of what you said. I think context is very important in how one goes about applying Peat's ideas or you run the risk of getting into trouble. I've had plenty of snafus too lol. I guess it's part of the learning experience. You don't always know what you don't know, you know?
I look forward to hearing more if you have time to make that post.

 

[Xisca]

1)I think because it promotes its own synthesis.
2)I use it now topically on an "as needed" basis.

1) I read it, but I now doubt for which hormone this is true or not! I bet in most cases this is not true at all, and according to what happened to some men using progesterone or progestin, I think even progesterone in women might create a mess.

That would be veeery interresting to check out if progesterone really stimulates its own synthesis!

When progesterone goes up during pregnancy, this is a special case, and I am sure it modifies many things that are not modified out of pregnancy! So, can we say progesterone is safe to take ad-libitum just because it is safe at 1000fold dosis during pregnancy?

2) Good idea for what I still have!

Hey girls, what is you best success with topical use? When it works for you, do you notice the effet very quick?
(I am not sure if my tendons were less painful with it... )

 

[sweetpeat]

1) I read it, but I now doubt for which hormone this is true or not! I bet in most cases this is not true at all, and according to what happened to some men using progesterone or progestin, I think even progesterone in women might create a mess.

That would be veeery interresting to check out if progesterone really stimulates its own synthesis!

From Progesterone Summaries by Ray Peat: "Progesterone stimulates the ovaries and adrenals to produce progesterone, and it also activates the thyroid, so one dose can sometimes have prolonged effects. It shouldn't be necessary to keep using progesterone indefinitely, unless the ovaries have been removed."

As far as noticing effects with topical use, for pulled muscle I notice results within a couple hours. Overnight is even better for me. For my cyst, it took a week or two.

 

[HDD]

More from the article @sweetpeat quoted-

"An excessive estrogen/progesterone ratio is more generally involved in producing or aggravating symptoms than either a simple excess of estrogen or a deficiency of progesterone, but even this ratio is conditioned by other factors, including age, diet, other steroids, thyroid, and other hormones. The relative estrogen excess seems to act by producing tissue hypoxia (as reported in my dissertation, University of Oregon, 1972), and this is the result of changes induced by estrogen in alveolar diffusion, peripheral vascular changes, and intracellular oxygen wastage."

"With a diet high in protein (e.g., at least 70-100 grams per day, including eggs) and vitamin A (not carotene), I have found that the dose of progesterone can be reduced each month. Using thyroid will usually reduce the amount of progesterone needed. Occasionally, a woman won't feel any effect even from 100 mg. of progesterone; I think this indicates that they need to use thyroid and diet, to normalize their estrogen, prolactin, and cortisol."

 

[HDD]

From Politics & Science interview "Progesterone, Part 2"
Politics & Science: Progesterone Part 2

RAY PEAT: Yeah and I have seen several men I don't member whether they had vasectomies or not but say they were suffering from impotency and it just immediately was resolved by taking just very small doses a couple of times of progesterone. It is sort of like priming the pump. Progesterone has a positive feedback apparently in men as well as in women but people are experimented with slices of either ovary tissue or adrenal tissue which makes some progesterone and they found in both cases that if you add little bit of progesterone it increases the organs production of progesterone, positive feedback which is unusual in hormone regulation.

 

[Xisca]

positive feedback which is unusual in hormone regulation.

There are also testimonies on the web, of very bad results when using progesterone, or when stopping it. It is just very difficult to know in advance in what case you are, and take the risk.

Does the positive feedback means that it cannot be used long term?
And does it mean, or absolutely not, that there will not be any problem when getting OFF the hormone?

 

[HDD]

There are also testimonies on the web, of very bad results when using progesterone, or when stopping it. It is just very difficult to know in advance in what case you are, and take the risk.

There are many "progesterone" products on the market so it is hard to know what is going on in those testimonies. It has been discussed on this forum about progesterone knocking the estrogen out of the cells to be eliminated. This often causes negative symptoms. Sometimes women have needed higher doses in the beginning to counter the effects of the circulating estrogen. Katharina Dalton recommended a 3 hourly starch diet before starting progesterone. Ray Peat also talks about age, diet, other steroids, thyroid, and other hormones that can prevent the effectiveness of progesterone.

Does the positive feedback means that it cannot be used long term?

And does it mean, or absolutely not, that there will not be any problem when getting OFF the hormone?

I have not read anything that would indicate a problem getting off of it.I have used progesterone off and on for 5 years now with no negative symptoms. I have used thyroid the same. The only precautions I have read about progesterone are as follows-

"If a person has an enlarged thyroid gland, progesterone promotes secretion and unloading of the stored “colloid,” and can bring on a temporary hyperthyroid state. This is a corrective process, and in itself isn't harmful. A thyroid supplement should be used to shrink the goiter before progesterone is given."

"To avoid unexpected anesthesia, the correct dose should be determined by taking about 10 mg. at a time allowing it to spread into the membranes of the mouth, and repeating the dose after 10 minutes until the symptoms are controlled. "[|quote]

 

[Xisca]

...until the symptoms are controlled, well... but I have never felt any particular effect! I have read all Peat about it several times, and read Katharina Dalton. And when trying to up my carbs, yes it stopped the flushing during one week. But with rice I was wanting to eat endlessly and each time more and more often! Also my energy was superficial and going up and down instead of a steady flow. Then I used high fruits, because with starch I have more gut issues, and it ended the same, I eat all the time and have less and less energy. I made a big effort to stop eating like this, and went back to more veggies. Though Ii am tired, the flushes stopped. Now the pms like symtoms are fading away. The low belly tension on both sides (sure most women know this!) went first. My breasts are almost ok. Still some pain, only if I pressure the lower inside part.

I have no idea if I was really estrogen dominant during my life, as I had this type of tension during a few days per month, and some low belly pain only one day, the one before my periods, and sometimes none. I stopped pain killer when I knew about liver problem with doliprane. I needed 2, and only once. But actually, it was manageable without painkiller. Sometime just limit...
I also think I was probably sterile.
Oh, something very special: I got my 1st period late, like 15 or 16, and I never bled more than using a small pad or 2 per day, almost did not need at night. 3 days. then 2 days a little bit but almost nothing. I never complained about it! But quite uncommon!
I have no idea if it tells something special about my hormone levels and regulation.

And I really believe my main problem to be LIVER!