Men With Soft Fat Around The Waist

Ron J

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What do you guys think about killing fat cells by placing an ice pack on it?
 

RedStaR

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Is brown or white fat better then the other for some reason? Is on of them easier to burn?
Brown fat is stimulated by norepinephrine to oxidize and produce heat.

It's less energy efficient, but better for thermoregulation.
 
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cyclops

cyclops

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Brown fat is stimulated by norepinephrine to oxidize and produce heat.

It's less energy efficient, but better for thermoregulation.

So it sounds like brown fat is better and easier to burn. Why shouldn't I ice my fat?
 

schultz

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You're a beast! :eek:

I was always interested in the idea of different fat depots being related to certain hormonal profiles. I don't know how much science there is to back it up, but from what I remember the fat below the belly button is supposed to be a cortisol thing. I first heard of this from Charles Poliquin (who seems to make things up sometimes, or so it seems) but it was still intriguing.

Charles Poliquin's Biosignature Modulation - What Your Body Fat Tells You About Your Hormone Profile - Page 2 of 3 - Physiqology
 

RedStaR

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So it sounds like brown fat is better and easier to burn. Why shouldn't I ice my fat?
Take cold showers to upregulate BAT growth factors instead. Icepacks on your abdonimals is a one-way ticket to the ER.
 

Wagner83

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I'm interested in this too, I remember a similar thread and a post from a female who said eating balanced meal (fat, proteins, sugar) was the only thing that solved the issue.
 
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cyclops

cyclops

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ok ill try some cold showers.

I used to eat balanced meals, but now I'm doing very low fat in order to lose fat.
 

Herbie

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I have had soft fat on my body, particularly around my waist, for most of my life. What is this? PUFA?

Even when I have gotten thin, I still allot of this soft fat around my waist. Skinny-fat, is what I believe this is called. I don't think my body wants to use this fat as energy.

How do I get rid of it, and become the lean, chiseled man I was destined to be? Supplements don't seem to work... I think I need to get my body to burn it.

Are you sure its fat or is it water?

Try and check if it appears more in the evening or the morning.
 
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cyclops

cyclops

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Are you sure its fat or is it water?

Try and check if it appears more in the evening or the morning.

I look better in the morning. Slimmer for sure. What does that tell you?

If it is water, how do I get rid of that?
 

Herbie

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I look better in the morning. Slimmer for sure. What does that tell you?

If it is water, how do I get rid of that?

I'm not sure. You would need to experiment with different foods and document changes over time to figure it out.
 
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cyclops

cyclops

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I'm not sure. You would need to experiment with different foods and document changes over time to figure it out.

I may be misunderstanding you here, but I'm wondering why you asked me to check if it appears more in the evening or morning, if the information does not seem tell you anything.
 

Herbie

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I may be misunderstanding you here, but I'm wondering why you asked me to check if it appears more in the evening or morning, if the information does not seem tell you anything.

Yeah its information and it does tell me something though I can't really do anything with that but you can use that information to further understand and hopefully find a solution to your problem. I'd be only guessing.

dehydration is more likely in the morning because we have fasted through the night and cortisol levels are lowest in the early morning, there are so many factors which could effect the water or fat on the naval area.
 

Herbie

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The thing with taking a supplement to lower the fat or water in the mid section is that you need to understand why it works because its not a solution to the problem, its only a clue or a tool to further understand and address the underlying cause.
 

meatbag

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What do you guys think about killing fat cells by placing an ice pack on it?

Brown fat is stimulated by norepinephrine to oxidize and produce heat.

It's less energy efficient, but better for thermoregulation.

I was interested in this back when I used to do Leangains and was researching things along those lines. I'm not really sure the process of the conversion to brown adipose tissue is a good thing to purposefully induce just for fat lass, and I'm not convinced having a lot of brown adipose tissue is healthy. Here's post on the forum with some interesting studies on the concept;


Can't comment on effectiveness or human use. Turning white fat into brown fat is probably not a good idea. The brown fat appears under the influence of adrenaline. It is not coincidence that "cold thermogenesis" is used to create it - i.e. the cold raises adrenaline, especially in hypothyroid people with little glycogen. People with advanced cancers have almost no white fat and a lot of brown fat and it is the brown fat that is linked to cachexia. Lowering cortisol synthesis with something like emodin or aspirin and/or improving thyroid function (which would achieve the same) is the only proper way to lose fat. Fat is there for a reason and manipulating it somehow to turn into a self-eating machine is another "brilliant" invention of the supplement industry to sell you more crap.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/07/140717124838.htm
Brown adipose tissue in cancer patients: possible cause of cancer-induced cachexia. - PubMed - NCBI
http://www.cell.com/trends/cancer/fulltext/S2405-8033(16)30084-X

---
tyw also did a whole article on his blog on Cold Thermogenesis that I thought was good;
Cold Thermogenesis is a Hormetic Stressor

---
Quote from near the end of the article, whole thing is good though and I think you'd like it;

"Cold exposure increases nitric oxide synthase (NOS) activity in both adipose and ephithelial cells, and therefore also increases the amount of Nitric Oxide (NO) in the body if substrate is available. Enhanced gene expression of endothelial nitric oxide synthase in brown adipose tissue during cold exposure (Kikuchi-Utsumi et. al., 2002) -- Enhanced gene expression of endothelial nitric oxide synthase in brown adipose tissue during cold exposure | Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology

You can block NO formation directly by restricting substrate like Arginine, or by inhibiting NOS

Clearly, Nitric Oxide is crucial in acute hypoxic conditions. Without it, a hypoxic heart would sieze up and die in less than a minute.

There is also plausible mechanism for stimulation of mitochondrial biogenesis from NO, likely through the feedback-formation of Reactive Nitrogen Species to the cell nucleus, telling it that the mitochondria are bunk and need to be recycled. Mitochondrial Biogenesis in Mammals: The Role of Endogenous Nitric Oxide (Nisoli et. al., 2003) -- http://www.sciencemag.org/content/299/5608/896.short

This is a slippery slope, since part of the mechanism is that NO binds to Cytochrome C oxidase, and when Cyt C Oxidase detaches, the cell kills itself (see Nick Lane's book 'Power, Sex, Suicide' for details of Caspase activation and the resulting cascade).

Chronically elevated nitric oxide is clearly bad. NO bound to Cytochrome C Oxidase prevents it from accepting electrons, and thus preventing electron flow through the Mitochondrial complexes.

Sidenote: I suspect that a lot of so called "Complex I dysfunction" is really Cyt C Oxidase dysfunction, that causes electrons through Complex I to "back up" and not be allowed to flow forward.

ie: Any disruption along the Electron Transport Chain can manifest as observed inability for Complex I to accept more NADH

When this happens, you're left with 2 choices:

  • (1) Free Cyt C Oxidase from NO through use of Methylene Blue or Red Light Exposure
  • (2) Kill the mitochondria and make a new one
Sick people are oftentimes stuck with option (2), since methylene blue isn't a commonly used exogenous compound, and the ability for a sick cell to both produce and allow for perfusion of red light to the affected tissues is limited.

Our friend Giorgi (aka: Haidut) also makes some very valid points regarding Nitric Oxide in the 'Generative Energy #11' podcast -- http://www.dannyroddy.com/weblog/nitricoxidemethyleneblue

In any case, Cold Exposure, which likely generates even more NO, is not a direct fix for someone who is sick. Restoring high energetic flows to the affected tissue in question is the answer, and that usually means restoring mitochondrial electron flow.

The ability for Cold Exposure to enhance mitochondrial kinetics is dependent on so many factors unique to the individual.

I will repeat, Individual Testing is required. The Cold can be the Consultant you call in when your Business needs a quick boost, or it can be that toxic consultant which hangs around creating "new problems" for themselves to solve (and charge you lots of money).

We can discuss mechanics all day, but the real test is when your body meets the Cold Water on a regular basis. Tailor it according to your own needs and tolerance, and scale the dose up and down as you see fit. Cold Thermogenesis is a secondary tool in the arsenal that can be used to good effect when the internal Biologic condition are right."
 

japanesedude

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Mar 17, 2017
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I think applying DHT presorsor like Androsterone directly on your waist(ab) can reduce your fat around the waist.
 

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