Melatonin, Protects Against LPS / LPO / ROS / RNS

[Captain_Coconut]

There are hundreds of studies available showing the value of melatonin on preventing lipid peroxidation and limiting other negative byproducts of lpo.

I think melatonin may be more powerful than vitamin E in many scenarios. I think RP has unjustly vilified melatonin, much like his stance on iodine. It seems to me that melatonin would be very complimentary to the other standard RP friendly supplements.

Here are a few:

Effects of melatonin on low-dose lipopolysaccharide-induced oxidative stress in mouse liver, muscle, and kidney. - PubMed - NCBI

Melatonin reduces lipid peroxidation and membrane viscosity

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jpi.12128

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567576915301806?via=ihub

 

[rei]

Yes, especially when you are recovering taking 0.3 melatonin at night is too little. You want some boosted action for the next day also, goal is to reach baseline before the next dose so that there is no tolerance. The dose for this seems to be about 3mg. I got a new appreciation for melatonin after i randomly read a silly claim on here that said reflux can be cured with melatonin. And it actually worked.

 

[Mufasa]

There are hundreds of studies available showing the value of melatonin on preventing lipid peroxidation and limiting other negative byproducts of lpo.

I think melatonin may be more powerful than vitamin E in many scenarios. I think RP has unjustly vilified melatonin, much like his stance on iodine. It seems to me that melatonin would be very complimentary to the other standard RP friendly supplements.

Here are a few:

Effects of melatonin on low-dose lipopolysaccharide-induced oxidative stress in mouse liver, muscle, and kidney. - PubMed - NCBI

Melatonin reduces lipid peroxidation and membrane viscosity

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jpi.12128

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567576915301806?via=ihub

It is probably a good anti-oxidant, but too much anti-oxidants cause reductive stress.
I would not take more than your body naturally makes when you don't expose yourself to (blue) light in the night.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Yes, especially when you are recovering taking 0.3 melatonin at night is too little. You want some boosted action for the next day also, goal is to reach baseline before the next dose so that there is no tolerance. The dose for this seems to be about 3mg. I got a new appreciation for melatonin after i randomly read a silly claim on here that said reflux can be cured with melatonin. And it actually worked.

That is great. How long did it take to cure your reflux? What time of day do you take it?

 

[rei]

Not mine, my dad's. A hour before bed i have advised him to take it, but it might be beneficial to spread out such a large dose.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Why is Melatonin supplementation not more popular in the world of RP?

 

[Pointless]

Why is Melatonin supplementation not more popular in the world of RP?

In 1994 A.V. Sirotkin found that melatonin inhibits progesterone production but stimulates estrogen production, and it’s widely recognized that melatonin generally inhibits the thyroid hormones, creating an environment in which fertilization, implantation, and development of the embryo are not possible. This combination of high estrogen with low progesterone and low thyroid decreases the resistance of the organism, predisposing it to seizures and excitotoxic damage, and causing the thymus gland to atrophy. -Ray Peat, PhD

Although melatonin sometimes antagonizes serotonin in a protective way, in itself it can lower body temperature and alertness, suppressing thyroid and progesterone. (Sirotkin, 1997) -Ray Peat, PhD

“Many health food stores are now selling melatonin, to induce sleep and “prevent cancer.” They have taken some information out of context, and don’t realize how dangerous melatonin is. It makes the brain sluggish, causes the sex organs to shrink, and damages immunity by shrinking the thymus gland. It is the hormone of darkness and winter, and is produced in the pineal gland by any stress which increases adrenalin. Adequate sun light suppresses the formation of melatonin.” -Ray Peat, PhD

As for the studies you posted, antioxidants are not necessarily good.

"Anything that can be oxidized and reduced (melatonin, estrogen, tryptophan, carotene, etc.) will function as an antioxidant in some system, but in other circumstances, it can be a pro-oxidant." Ray

Also, any mouse study on melatonin should be thrown out because mice are nocturnal. Darkness is PRO-metabolic for them.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

In 1994 A.V. Sirotkin found that melatonin inhibits progesterone production but stimulates estrogen production, and it’s widely recognized that melatonin generally inhibits the thyroid hormones, creating an environment in which fertilization, implantation, and development of the embryo are not possible. This combination of high estrogen with low progesterone and low thyroid decreases the resistance of the organism, predisposing it to seizures and excitotoxic damage, and causing the thymus gland to atrophy. -Ray Peat, PhD

Although melatonin sometimes antagonizes serotonin in a protective way, in itself it can lower body temperature and alertness, suppressing thyroid and progesterone. (Sirotkin, 1997) -Ray Peat, PhD

“Many health food stores are now selling melatonin, to induce sleep and “prevent cancer.” They have taken some information out of context, and don’t realize how dangerous melatonin is. It makes the brain sluggish, causes the sex organs to shrink, and damages immunity by shrinking the thymus gland. It is the hormone of darkness and winter, and is produced in the pineal gland by any stress which increases adrenalin. Adequate sun light suppresses the formation of melatonin.” -Ray Peat, PhD

As for the studies you posted, antioxidants are not necessarily good.

"Anything that can be oxidized and reduced (melatonin, estrogen, tryptophan, carotene, etc.) will function as an antioxidant in some system, but in other circumstances, it can be a pro-oxidant." Ray

Also, any mouse study on melatonin should be thrown out because mice are nocturnal. Darkness is PRO-metabolic for them.

Serum progesterone is higher in the morning and noon than in the evening and night. Progesterone and melatonin are being secreted more or less at inverse phases. So it makes some sense that taking some melatonin would suppress progesterone in the short term. Melatonin production starts to decline significantly after the late 20s, much like dhea and pregnenolone does. I think it makes sense to supplement melatonin following the same logic of supplementing dhea etc, once one is past their 20s. I don’t believe melatonin is anti thyroid, my temperatures have shot up in the day time since I have started to take 3mg melatonin before bed. It seems to me that melatonin is one of the major hormones the body has to protect from lipid peroxidation. I also doubt melatonin actually shrinks sex organs... not far from the height of my melatonin production in my late teens those organs were definitely in fine shape.

 

[alywest]

Weirdly there are quite a few studies now that show that melatonin (2-3mg) is resulting in women with fertility issues having success with IVF and even natural implantation. I don't think I would take it once I got pregnant, but for some reason it is helping women get pregnant. Perhaps the pineal gland is overactive if it has to produce its own melatonin so when you take it you're allowing it to relax more? I'm not claiming to understand the mechanism, just speculating. The studies don't seem to try to explore why it works, they just compared women who took it with women who didn't.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Weirdly there are quite a few studies now that show that melatonin (2-3mg) is resulting in women with fertility issues having success with IVF and even natural implantation. I don't think I would take it once I got pregnant, but for some reason it is helping women get pregnant. Perhaps the pineal gland is overactive if it has to produce its own melatonin so when you take it you're allowing it to relax more? I'm not claiming to understand the mechanism, just speculating. The studies don't seem to try to explore why it works, they just compared women who took it with women who didn't.

Interesting. I’ve also seen a handfull of recent studies showing that it is an anti-estrogen at least for women with breast cancer. I have a theory, which is that melatonin production is the body’s natural solution to serotonin excess... and melatonin helps to offset the negatives of serotonin. I think healthy melatonin production peaking before the twenties and rapidly dropping off in the thirties might be part of why serotonin related sickness seems more prevalent in those 30 years of age and older. Just a thought...

 

[alywest]

Interesting. I’ve also seen a handfull of recent studies showing that it is an anti-estrogen at least for women with breast cancer. I have a theory, which is that melatonin production is the body’s natural solution to serotonin excess... and melatonin helps to offset the negatives of serotonin. I think healthy melatonin production peaking before the twenties and rapidly dropping off in the thirties might be part of why serotonin related sickness seems more prevalent in those 30 years of age and older. Just a thought...

Interesting. That's a very compelling theory. I have been taking just 3mcg of melatonin at night and seem to be getting a much better sleep. It seems to allow me to go into deep sleep. I can't prove that by anything except anecdote. I also take lisuride so perhaps the two together really help with serotonin issues.