Melatonin prevents progression/improves macular degeneration instead of causing it, as Ray surmises

Mito

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Thanks for this, great read.
Im so surprised Peat doesn’t even acknowledge the thymus regeneration potential of melatonin. I’ve never heard him say a good word about melatonin but I’ve heard him make several positive remarks on the thymus. Very strange.
Peat thinks melatonin causes regression of the gonads and thymus because it suppresses progesterone and raises estrogen.

He cites this study (Error - Cookies Turned Off)

Abstract​

Sirotkin AV. Direct influence of melatonin on steroid, nonapeptide hormones, and cyclic nucleotide secretion by granulosa cells from porcine ovaries. J. Pineal Res. 1994; 17: 112–117.

Abstract​

The release of progesterone, estradiol-173, oxytocin, arginine-vasopressin, cAMP, and cGMP by cultured granulosa cells isolated from porcine ovaries without and in the presence of melatonin (0. 001, 0. 01, 0. 1, 1, 10, and 100 ng/ml medium) was analyzed. It was found that melatonin is able to inhibit progesterone and stimulate estuarial secretion. Melatonin treatments significantly inhibited oxytocin release. Some inhibition of vasopressin and cAMP and significant stimulation of cGMP also resulted from melatonin treatment. The present observations suggest a direct effect of melatonin on the steroid, nonapeptide hormone, and cyclic nucleotide release from porcine ovarian cells.
 
B

Braveheart

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Peat thinks melatonin causes regression of the gonads and thymus because it suppresses progesterone and raises estrogen.

He cites this study (Error - Cookies Turned Off)

Abstract​

Sirotkin AV. Direct influence of melatonin on steroid, nonapeptide hormones, and cyclic nucleotide secretion by granulosa cells from porcine ovaries. J. Pineal Res. 1994; 17: 112–117.

Abstract​

The release of progesterone, estradiol-173, oxytocin, arginine-vasopressin, cAMP, and cGMP by cultured granulosa cells isolated from porcine ovaries without and in the presence of melatonin (0. 001, 0. 01, 0. 1, 1, 10, and 100 ng/ml medium) was analyzed. It was found that melatonin is able to inhibit progesterone and stimulate estuarial secretion. Melatonin treatments significantly inhibited oxytocin release. Some inhibition of vasopressin and cAMP and significant stimulation of cGMP also resulted from melatonin treatment. The present observations suggest a direct effect of melatonin on the steroid, nonapeptide hormone, and cyclic nucleotide release from porcine ovarian cells.
Thanks Mito! This is getting interesting....
 

GreenTrails

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Thanks Mito! This is getting interesting....
Peat thinks melatonin causes regression of the gonads and thymus because it suppresses progesterone and raises estrogen.

He cites this study (Error - Cookies Turned Off)

Abstract​

Sirotkin AV. Direct influence of melatonin on steroid, nonapeptide hormones, and cyclic nucleotide secretion by granulosa cells from porcine ovaries. J. Pineal Res. 1994; 17: 112–117.

Abstract​

The release of progesterone, estradiol-173, oxytocin, arginine-vasopressin, cAMP, and cGMP by cultured granulosa cells isolated from porcine ovaries without and in the presence of melatonin (0. 001, 0. 01, 0. 1, 1, 10, and 100 ng/ml medium) was analyzed. It was found that melatonin is able to inhibit progesterone and stimulate estuarial secretion. Melatonin treatments significantly inhibited oxytocin release. Some inhibition of vasopressin and cAMP and significant stimulation of cGMP also resulted from melatonin treatment. The present observations suggest a direct effect of melatonin on the steroid, nonapeptide hormone, and cyclic nucleotide release from porcine ovarian cells.
I googled "Is Melatonin Estrogenic?", and found several articles (NIH, PubMed) that say that melatonin decreases levels of estradiol, and that Melatonin fulfills all the requiements to be considered as an antiestrogenic drug.

Also: 1. Night shift work increases breast cancer risk as well as endometrial cancer, since night shift work affects melatonin production; 2. Melatonin exerts oncostatic effects on tumors, especially hormone-dependent breast cancer. It reduces the growth of chemically-induced mammary tumors in rodents, and, in vitro, inhibits the proliferation and invasiveness of human breast cancer cells.

Low levels of melatonin are a risk factor for breast cancer. There is always an inverse relationship between melatonin levels and the tumor size (the lower the peak level, the larger the tumor).

Melatonin has been shown to act as an anti-estrogen and a suppressor of estradiol. Because melatonin can reduce your levels of circulating estrogen, it can slow down the growth of breast tumors and may reduce the incidence of breast cancer.

My interest is in this area since I had breast cancer last year, and the oncologist was going to put me on an aromatase inhibitor such as Arimidex or Anastrozole (which can cause eyesight damage, liver damage, high blood pressure and bone and joint pain), so I declined. I'm thinking that Melatonin may be the best thing that I can take. I'm also thinking that Melatonin is better for me to take than Progesterone, which the latter I didn't feel sure was a good idea.

So Thank You! Burtlancast for bringing this subject up, which encouraged me to do some research.
 

Mito

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I googled "Is Melatonin Estrogenic?", and found several articles (NIH, PubMed) that say that melatonin decreases levels of estradiol, and that Melatonin fulfills all the requiements to be considered as an antiestrogenic drug.
Peat cites the pig study because their daytime activity and nighttime sleep are similar to humans. He said that if you study melatonin in other animals like mice for example, the results will be opposite (i.e. increased progesterone and decreased estrogen) because melatonin in a nocturnal hormone.

“Mice and rats are nocturnal animals, so they are notoriously inappropriate for evaluating the nocturnal hormones as they might relate to humans and other animals that are active in the daytime. Although melatonin sometimes antagonizes serotonin in a protective way, in itself it can lower body temperature and alertness, suppressing thyroid and progesterone. (Sirotkin, 1997) Women who are depressed have been found to have higher daytime melatonin levels. (Danilenko, et aI., 1994) While the popular books have given the impression that there is no question about the protective nature of melatonin, it turns out that in only five out of 36 strains of inbred mice can melatonin be demonstrated in the pineal glands. The famous cancer prone strain, in which mammary cancer kills practically all the females, is one of these. When they are given melatonin the development of tumors is accel- erated. When their pineal gland is removed, their life span is extended.”
-RP
 
Last edited:

GreenTrails

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Peat cites the pig study because their daytime activity and nighttime sleep are similar to humans. He said that if you study melatonin in other animals like mice for example, the results will be opposite (i.e. increased progesterone and decreased estrogen) because melatonin in a nocturnal hormone.

“Mice and rats are nocturnal animals, so they are notoriously inappropriate for evaluating the nocturnal hormones as they might relate to humans and other animals that are active in the daytime. Although melatonin sometimes antagonizes serotonin in a protective way, in itself it can lower body temperature and alertness, suppressing thyroid and progesterone. (Sirotkin, 1997) Women who are depressed have been found to have higher daytime melatonin levels. (Danilenko, et aI., 1994) While the popular books have given the impression that there is no question about the protective nature of melatonin, it turns out that in only five out of 36 strains of inbred mice can melatonin be demonstrated in the pineal glands. The famous cancer prone strain, in which mammary cancer kills practically all the females, is one of these. When they are given melatonin the development of tumors is accel- erated. When their pineal gland is removed, their life span is extended.”
-R
I read this:

Abstract​

Sirotkin AV. Direct influence of melatonin on steroid, nonapeptide hormones, and cyclic nucleotide secretion by granulosa cells from porcine ovaries. J. Pineal Res. 1994; 17: 112–117.

I'm going to continue studying about Melatonin; I don't know a lot about it, but Bowles' book is full of information. Thanks for your information. Only a few of the studies that I've read are done with mice.
 

Mufasa

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Peat cites the pig study because their daytime activity and nighttime sleep are similar to humans. He said that if you study melatonin in other animals like mice for example, the results will be opposite (i.e. increased progesterone and decreased estrogen) because melatonin in a nocturnal hormone.

“Mice and rats are nocturnal animals, so they are notoriously inappropriate for evaluating the nocturnal hormones as they might relate to humans and other animals that are active in the daytime. Although melatonin sometimes antagonizes serotonin in a protective way, in itself it can lower body temperature and alertness, suppressing thyroid and progesterone. (Sirotkin, 1997) Women who are depressed have been found to have higher daytime melatonin levels. (Danilenko, et aI., 1994) While the popular books have given the impression that there is no question about the protective nature of melatonin, it turns out that in only five out of 36 strains of inbred mice can melatonin be demonstrated in the pineal glands. The famous cancer prone strain, in which mammary cancer kills practically all the females, is one of these. When they are given melatonin the development of tumors is accel- erated. When their pineal gland is removed, their life span is extended.”
-RP

This breast cancer study is indeed done on mice.
 

cjm

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Peat thinks melatonin causes regression of the gonads and thymus because it suppresses progesterone and raises estrogen.

He cites this study (Error - Cookies Turned Off)

Abstract​

Sirotkin AV. Direct influence of melatonin on steroid, nonapeptide hormones, and cyclic nucleotide secretion by granulosa cells from porcine ovaries. J. Pineal Res. 1994; 17: 112–117.

Abstract​

The release of progesterone, estradiol-173, oxytocin, arginine-vasopressin, cAMP, and cGMP by cultured granulosa cells isolated from porcine ovaries without and in the presence of melatonin (0. 001, 0. 01, 0. 1, 1, 10, and 100 ng/ml medium) was analyzed. It was found that melatonin is able to inhibit progesterone and stimulate estuarial secretion. Melatonin treatments significantly inhibited oxytocin release. Some inhibition of vasopressin and cAMP and significant stimulation of cGMP also resulted from melatonin treatment. The present observations suggest a direct effect of melatonin on the steroid, nonapeptide hormone, and cyclic nucleotide release from porcine ovarian cells.

Thanks for the link to the 1994 study, I was able to get the full study on Sci-Hub, but no time to look through it. I will say it's odd he leans so heavily on an in vitro study.

 

golder

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People should take 100 mg of zinc twice a day for the thymus.
Wow, that's rather a lot. Ray has spoke about thymus regenration quite a lot, but he's never mentioned zinc? He's also been known to say that zinc is extremely easily overused even in ~15mg doses over just a few days. Any reason why you advocate 100mg specifically, also given the negative effect this would have on copper?
 

Marquis777

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Wow, that's rather a lot. Ray has spoke about thymus regenration quite a lot, but he's never mentioned zinc? He's also been known to say that zinc is extremely easily overused even in ~15mg doses over just a few days. Any reason why you advocate 100mg specifically, also given the negative effect this would have on copper?
Jeff bowls said it helps reverse age the thymus. I take 10mg of copper with 100mg of zinc twice a day. It helps increase dopamine and libido as well from personal experience.

I go on and of on it. It's great you should try it.

200 mg of zinc and 20 mg of copper total a day.
 

GreenTrails

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Jeff bowls said it helps reverse age the thymus. I take 10mg of copper with 100mg of zinc twice a day. It helps increase dopamine and libido as well from personal experience.

I go on and of on it. It's great you should try it.

200 mg of zinc and 20 mg of copper total a day.
That's really interesting. I have taken thymus for awhile; it seemed to be a good thing.
 

golder

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Jeff bowls said it helps reverse age the thymus. I take 10mg of copper with 100mg of zinc twice a day. It helps increase dopamine and libido as well from personal experience.

I go on and of on it. It's great you should try it.

200 mg of zinc and 20 mg of copper total a day.
I like the 10:1 ratio to balance, but that just seems an insanely high dose? Most zinc tablets are 10mg and copper is 2mg, which would amount to a collective 30 capsules a day, that’s before taking into account any dietary sources.
 

Ras

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I like the 10:1 ratio to balance, but that just seems an insanely high dose? Most zinc tablets are 10mg and copper is 2mg, which would amount to a collective 30 capsules a day, that’s before taking into account any dietary sources.
The zinc:copper ratio of Pacific oysters is about 10:1. You could eat them and also get many other nutrients.
 

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