Mega Dosing Iodine = Bad, Destroys Thyroid Tissue Permanently

[Cirion]

BTW:

Radioactive Iodine for Hyperthyroidism

Can anyone with a straight face tell me that this is a good idea compared to regular Iodine? Really? I feel like the medical community has gone mad. We have Iodophobia yet have no phobia of something we SHOULD have phobia of, Radioactive iodine being one of them. What could go wrong. Radioactive iodine is safe after all right? Lol

Just like using Chemotherapy to "cure" cancer. The worst thing you can possibly do.

 

[Amazoniac]

- Studies of total, organic and inorganic iodine in Canadian bovine milk samples with varying milk fat content using ion-exchange chromatography and neutron activation analysis

"Toxicological effects of chemical elements depend on not only the concentration but also their chemical species. Total iodine content of milk has been routinely measured at least since 1970; however this is not the case for iodine speciation analysis. The small number of reports available on iodine speciation is perhaps due to the low iodine content involved and/or the volatility of this element leading to losses during the separation as well as analytical detection by most techniques. Much of the work on iodine species in milk reported so far involves iodide and iodate [7–9], T3, other organic or inorganic species [10, 11], and iodine bound to casein, whey, and/or fat [12, 13]. The commonly used analytical techniques are ICP-MS and NAA [7–13]. Both are very sensitive techniques; however, NAA does not require sample to be in the liquid phase and it is able to detect iodine instrumentally at very low levels in small sample sizes."​

According to them, milk provides about 400 mcg of iodine/liter. As far as I know, no one gets thyroid issues from plenty of milk while it's possible to get it from smaller amounts of potassium iodide.

- Iodine-induced Thyroid Disease

"The level of iodine required to block organification of iodine varies with the physiologic state of the thyroid gland but can result in a normal subject from a single dose of 750 micrograms of iodine.[27]"

"Although inhibition of organic binding of iodine may explain one form of iodide induced myxedema, this mechanism cannot be implicated in all instances. Patients with Graves’ disease treated with radioactive iodine[2] and subjects with Hashimoto's disease[3] given even small doses of iodine are particularly susceptible to iodine-induced myxedema. In all subjects, the serum thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) levels were elevated and the thyroid hormone levels (T4) decreased."

"Besides causing goiter, iodine may also precipitate thyrotoxicosis (Jodbasedow phenomenon). Following the introduction of iodized salt in this country in the 1920’s, an increased incidence of thyrotoxicosis was reported.[17,18] Examples of iodine-induced thyrotoxicosis were rare and were associated with large doses of iodine given to subjects living in areas of severe iodine deficiency."

"Direct evidence exists that iodine can produce goiter, myxedema and thyrotoxicosis, but evidence also indicates that iodine may indirectly contribute to thyroid disease. Changing patterns of thyroid disease manifested by an increased incidence of thyroiditis have been reported from numerous clinics.[9,10,20] A survey of surgical thyroid disease at the University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor, demonstrated a significant change in the histologic appearance of thyroid glands following the introduction of iodine therapy (1922) and iodine prophylaxis (1924).[31]"

"Before the use of iodine (1915-1920) 96 percent of all glands were either colloid goiters or hyperplastic. Thyroiditis (Hashimoto’s disease and lymphocytic thyroiditis)[14] and nodular colloid goiters with dense diffuse lymphocytic in filtrates and nodules were absent, and even sparse lymphocytic infiltrates were rarely encountered in pre-iodine goiters. A statistically significant increase in both chronic thyroiditis and nodular colloid goiter with lymphocytes occurred in the thyroid glands examined from three quinquennia (1925 to 1930, 1942 to 1947 and 1958 to 1963) after iodine prophylaxis and therapy (table I)."

"Intraglandular failure to utilize available iodine properly results in nodules of colloid-poor acini lined by hyperplastic epithelium. As in severe exogenous iodine deficiency, lymphocytes are absent or sparse in these glands.[1]"

"Following iodine prophylaxis and therapy in areas of endemic goiter, others have recorded a change in the morphology of the thyroid gland. Broders,[4] reporting from the Mayo Clinic in 1936, commented on the increased lymphocytes in the thyroid gland after pre-operative iodine therapy. The morphologic change from pre-iodine goiters was so impressive that he suggested iodine as a cause of chronic thyroiditis."​

What's safe about milk? Is it the form of iodine or something else that protects it (such as calcium)?

[. . . Brewing iodine speciation in milk . . .]

Incomplete brewing, but interesting enough to share:

- Human Lactation 2: Maternal and Environmental Factors - Hamosh, M., Goldman, A.S.

Spoiler: References

- Advanced Nutrition and Human Metabolism (978-1-133-10405-6) - Sareen S. Gropper and Jack L. Smith

"Dietary iodine (I) is either bound to amino acids (sometimes termed organified) or found free, primarily as iodate (IO3−) or iodide (I−). During digestion, organic bound iodine may be freed and converted to iodide within the gastrointestinal tract. Iodate, for example from breads or iodized salt, is usually reduced to iodide by glutathione within the gastrointestinal tract. Small quantities of iodinated amino acids and other organic forms of iodide that escape digestion may be absorbed, but not as efficiently as the iodide ion. The thyroid hormones thyroxine (T4) and triiodothyronine (T3) also are absorbed unchanged, with a bioavailability of about 70%, which allows T4 medication to be administered orally."

"Iodide is absorbed rapidly, mostly from the stomach and to a lesser extent from the duodenum. Overall, absorption of iodide is greater than 90%. Following absorption, free iodide appears in the blood, from which it is capable of permeating all tissues. The mineral selectively concentrates, however, in the thyroid gland, with lesser amounts found in the ovaries, placenta, skin, and salivary, gastric, and mammary glands."


"The metabolism of the thyroid hormones is largely dependent upon a group of three selenium-dependent iodothyronine 5′-deiodinases. Impaired selenium status results in altered thyroid hormone metabolism and function. The roles of these deiodinases are described further under the section of this chapter addressing selenium, specifically “Iodothyronine 5′-Deiodinases (IDI or DI).”

Like selenium deficiency, iron and vitamin A deficiencies may magnify the effects of inadequate iodine. Heme iron is a component of the enzyme thyroperoxidase, which attaches iodine to tyrosine residues on thyroglobulin, and which then conjugates the thyroglobulins for the production of the thyroid hormones. Iron also may be involved in the binding of T3 to nuclear receptors. Thus, iron deficiency impairs thyroid hormone synthesis and functions. Similarly, vitamin A deficiency reduces iodine uptake by the thyroid gland and decreases the synthesis of thyroglobulin and the coupling of iodotyrosine residues to form T4 [8]."


"Perhaps the only food to be identified directly with goiter etiology is cassava, which is consumed in large quantities in many developing countries. Cassava contains the cyanogenic glucoside linamarin that later became known as goitrin (Figure 13.19). The linamarin, once hydrolyzed within the gastrointestinal tract, releases cyanide, which is then metabolized to thiocyanate (SCN−). Thiocyanate competes with iodide for uptake into the thyroid gland. Cyanogenic glucosides are also found in lima beans, flaxseed, linseed, sorghum, and sweet potatoes."

"Other goitrogenic compounds that compete with iodide’s active transport into the thyroid cells include halide ions such as bromide (Br−) and astatide (At−). Perchlorate (ClO4 − ), along with perrhenate (ReO4 − ) and pertechnetate (Tc4 − ), interferes with organification as well as iodide uptake; perchlorate is a known contaminant in drinking water. Lithium (Li−), used to treat some psychiatric disorders, inhibits thyroid hormone release from the gland. Some other classes of goitrogens that interfere with iodide metabolism include polycyclic hydrocarbons and phenol compounds derived from coal."


- "The thyroid cells actively [] take up iodide from the blood."
- "Once within the cell, iodide (I−) is oxidized to iodine (I), which is then bound to the number 3 position of tyrosyl residues of the glycoprotein thyroglobulin (a process called organification of the iodine). This binding of iodine to the tyrosyl residues is catalyzed by the heme iron-dependent enzyme thyroperoxidase and generates thyroglobulin-3-monoiodotyrosine (Thg-MIT). Hydrogen peroxide acts as the electron acceptor."
- "Next, MIT is iodinated in the number 5 position by thyroperoxidase to form thyroglobulin-3,5-diiodotyrosine (Thg-DIT)."
- "In the colloid, two DITs condense or couple to form Thg-3,5,3′,5′-tetraiodothyronine (Thg-T4), with the elimination of an alanine side chain. Thyroperoxidase also catalyzes this coupling reaction. DIT also condenses or couples with MIT to form 3,5,3′-triiodothyronine (T3) and reverse T3 (rT3)."

"DIT and MIT not used for thyroid hormone synthesis in the thyroid cells are deiodinated, and the iodine is made available for recycling."

--

- Lugol reactive: History of discovery and teaching applications (in spanish)

"It was a French doctor surnamed Lugol who discovered that iodine, which is practically insoluble in water, dissolves easily by adding potassium iodide. For this reason, the dissolution of iodine with potassium iodide in water is called reactive or Lugol liquid, or simply Lugol."

"He tried to dissolve the iodine in water, which he says is difficult because according to Gay-Lussac only a part of iodine by weight is dissolved in seven thousand parts of water, and he succeeded by adding potassium iodide, which he calls "hydriodate" of potassium. The explanation of this name is given by Turner, a professor of chemistry at Edinburgh, because to obtain potassium iodide he dissolves the iodine in a solution of potassium hydroxide according to the following recipe: "To obtain potassium iodide, the iodine is treated with a concentrated solution of potassium hydroxide. The excess potassium hydroxide is neutralized with hydroiodic acid. The mixture of iodine compounds obtained is heated to dryness carefully by the volatility of the iodine" (Turner, 1825). When heating they obtained iodide and iodate, the latter is decomposed by the action of heat producing iodide and oxygen, so that the final result would be potassium iodide."

"According to Lugol (figure 6) potassium iodide would have no action from the medical point of view and the only thing that would act is iodine, but adding potassium iodide is the only adequate way to keep iodine in solution."​

- Iodine: Deficiency and Therapeutic Consideration (Antioxidant Functions of Iodine)

 

[Cirion]

TL;DR

It looks like the main point of contention, if I'm reading what you said correctly, is that Iodine supposedly CAUSES goiter. This is a direct contradiction to the experiences of both Dr. Brown and Dr. Abraham. I also note in none of your sources did anyone actually get tested for halide levels or iodine levels. If someone were actually saturated fully with Iodine before beginning a mega-Iodine dosage, that COULD provide some problems. Dr. Brown only recommends > 90% saturation and stopping. He does not recommend trying to reach 100% saturation. I could see how that could come with its own problems. It is a derelict of duty to keep toxic halogens floating around your patients' bloodstream and slapping a piece of "Duct Tape" to their body (Administering thyroid hormones) without fixing this problem.

Like any substance, even water, salt, potassium, whatever else... the devil can be in the details. I could easily quote a paper saying that high salt intake is bad but on the Ray Peat forums, you or someone else would probably laugh me out of the room. Why? Because there is not a sodium phobia like there is Iodine. Well, among RP forum posters at least :P Conventional medicine still thinks sodium is bad.

I also note that no one other than Dr. Brown and people like him seem to have a quantifiable, verifiable method to normalize Iodine levels and cure Hypothyroid. He has a system - Measure iodine levels, Measure bromine (also thyroid hormones, but so does everyone else) and dose Iodine appropriately and track progress. Most Dr.'s simply check TSH, T3,T4, and if you're low on T3/T4 put you on replacement therapy. This is a band-aid. That's also what Ray Peat says to do, just slap a band-aid on the thyroid, not fix the problem. Ok ok, he says eating lots of sugar and what-not will cure the thyroid. That's half true, but misses the other half of the story. Btw, just to clarify, Dr. Brown is not totally against thyroid hormone supplementation, but even when he has to do it, his dosages are are around 600% less than what is typically administered (He used to have to dose on average 180mg of Armour thyroid now rarely more than 30mg).

- Iodine-induced Thyroid Disease

"The level of iodine required to block organification of iodine varies with the physiologic state of the thyroid gland but can result in a normal subject from a single dose of 750 micrograms of iodine.[27]"
​

If that were true, then just about every person Dr. Brown and Dr. Abraham treated should have problems since even the smallest dosages are around 25,000 mcg. Quite the contrary.

"Although inhibition of organic binding of iodine may explain one form of iodide induced myxedema, this mechanism cannot be implicated in all instances. Patients with Graves’ disease treated with radioactive iodine[2] and subjects with Hashimoto's disease[3] given even small doses of iodine are particularly susceptible to iodine-induced myxedema. In all subjects, the serum thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) levels were elevated and the thyroid hormone levels (T4) decreased."

This just shows that yes indeed you must be careful in treating those with specific diseases like hashimoto's and the specific protocol will slightly differ rather than blindly administering Iodine. I don't disagree in that sense. The advent of TSH rising has already been addressed and happens even in people without hashimoto's.

"Besides causing goiter, iodine may also precipitate thyrotoxicosis (Jodbasedow phenomenon). Following the introduction of iodized salt in this country in the 1920’s, an increased incidence of thyrotoxicosis was reported.[17,18] Examples of iodine-induced thyrotoxicosis were rare and were associated with large doses of iodine given to subjects living in areas of severe iodine deficiency."

No. Lack of iodine causes goiter, not the introduction of it. Dr. Brown links several studies that show this to be true. The attached figure shows the result. The figure on the left shows the control group, and the right the group administered 9mg a day of sodium iodide. As you can clearly see, there is basically zero goiter in the iodide group and a good amount of goiter in the control group.Dr. Brown does not like iodized salt though although this was the method of treatment in the example he gave and it still worked well. Iodized salt is heavily processed, and the Iodine in the salt is not well utilized by the body compared to that in bread. Note that the study even admitted "Iodine induced thyrotoxicosis were rare". I'd even go one step further and wager they took an increased TSH and misinterpreted it to mean thyroid problems. I would need to look more into this.

Sources for the study:

[1] Marine, D. Prevention and treatment of simple goiter. Atl. Med. J. 26:436-442, 1923
[2] Marine, D. The prevention of simple goiter in man. J .Lab. Clin. Med. 3:40-48

"Direct evidence exists that iodine can produce goiter, myxedema and thyrotoxicosis, but evidence also indicates that iodine may indirectly contribute to thyroid disease. Changing patterns of thyroid disease manifested by an increased incidence of thyroiditis have been reported from numerous clinics.[9,10,20] A survey of surgical thyroid disease at the University of Michigan Medical Center, Ann Arbor, demonstrated a significant change in the histologic appearance of thyroid glands following the introduction of iodine therapy (1922) and iodine prophylaxis (1924).[31]"

I need more background info admittedly here to comment more intelligently. So I'll mark this to look at later. I am curious to also look up the claims about Iodine causing goiter, because that's a direct contradiction to Dr. Brown's and Dr. Abraham's research. Something fishy is going on there, but I think these claims are false, I'll have to read it more. My first guess is that they admit "Iodine causes indirect problems". My guess as to these "indirect problems" are Bromine toxicity symptoms.

"The metabolism of the thyroid hormones is largely dependent upon a group of three selenium-dependent iodothyronine 5′-deiodinases. Impaired selenium status results in altered thyroid hormone metabolism and function. The roles of these deiodinases are described further under the section of this chapter addressing selenium, specifically “Iodothyronine 5′-Deiodinases (IDI or DI).”

Like selenium deficiency, iron and vitamin A deficiencies may magnify the effects of inadequate iodine. Heme iron is a component of the enzyme thyroperoxidase, which attaches iodine to tyrosine residues on thyroglobulin, and which then conjugates the thyroglobulins for the production of the thyroid hormones. Iron also may be involved in the binding of T3 to nuclear receptors. Thus, iron deficiency impairs thyroid hormone synthesis and functions. Similarly, vitamin A deficiency reduces iodine uptake by the thyroid gland and decreases the synthesis of thyroglobulin and the coupling of iodotyrosine residues to form T4 [8]."

Agreed. Selenium and other vitamins are critical to thyroid therapy.

"Other goitrogenic compounds that compete with iodide’s active transport into the thyroid cells include halide ions such as bromide (Br−) and astatide (At−). Perchlorate (ClO4 − ), along with perrhenate (ReO4 − ) and pertechnetate (Tc4 − ), interferes with organification as well as iodide uptake; perchlorate is a known contaminant in drinking water. Lithium (Li−), used to treat some psychiatric disorders, inhibits thyroid hormone release from the gland. Some other classes of goitrogens that interfere with iodide metabolism include polycyclic hydrocarbons and phenol compounds derived from coal."

Agreed. Halides other than iodine are a major problem.

​

- Lugol reactive: History of discovery and teaching applications (in spanish)

"It was a French doctor surnamed Lugol who discovered that iodine, which is practically insoluble in water, dissolves easily by adding potassium iodide. For this reason, the dissolution of iodine with potassium iodide in water is called reactive or Lugol liquid, or simply Lugol."

"He tried to dissolve the iodine in water, which he says is difficult because according to Gay-Lussac only a part of iodine by weight is dissolved in seven thousand parts of water, and he succeeded by adding potassium iodide, which he calls "hydriodate" of potassium. The explanation of this name is given by Turner, a professor of chemistry at Edinburgh, because to obtain potassium iodide he dissolves the iodine in a solution of potassium hydroxide according to the following recipe: "To obtain potassium iodide, the iodine is treated with a concentrated solution of potassium hydroxide. The excess potassium hydroxide is neutralized with hydroiodic acid. The mixture of iodine compounds obtained is heated to dryness carefully by the volatility of the iodine" (Turner, 1825). When heating they obtained iodide and iodate, the latter is decomposed by the action of heat producing iodide and oxygen, so that the final result would be potassium iodide."

"According to Lugol (figure 6) potassium iodide would have no action from the medical point of view and the only thing that would act is iodine, but adding potassium iodide is the only adequate way to keep iodine in solution."​

- Iodine: Deficiency and Therapeutic Consideration (Antioxidant Functions of Iodine)

Yes. Dr. Brown I believe first administered potassium iodide and noticed no improvements in his patients, until he started adding elemental Iodine alongside it.

 

[Amazoniac]

TL;DR

It looks like the main point of contention, if I'm reading what you said correctly, is that Iodine supposedly CAUSES goiter. This is a direct contradiction to the experiences of both Dr. Brown and Dr. Abraham. I also note in none of your sources did anyone actually get tested for halide levels or iodine levels. If someone were actually saturated fully with Iodine before beginning a mega-Iodine dosage, that COULD provide some problems. Dr. Brown only recommends > 90% saturation and stopping. He does not recommend trying to reach 100% saturation. I could see how that could come with its own problems. It is a derelict of duty to keep toxic halogens floating around your patients' bloodstream and slapping a piece of "Duct Tape" to their body (Administering thyroid hormones) without fixing this problem.

Like any substance, even water, salt, potassium, whatever else... the devil can be in the details. I could easily quote a paper saying that high salt intake is bad but on the Ray Peat forums, you or someone else would probably laugh me out of the room. Why? Because there is not a sodium phobia like there is Iodine. Well, among RP forum posters at least :P Conventional medicine still thinks sodium is bad.

I also note that no one other than Dr. Brown and people like him seem to have a quantifiable, verifiable method to normalize Iodine levels and cure Hypothyroid. He has a system - Measure iodine levels, Measure bromine (also thyroid hormones, but so does everyone else) and dose Iodine appropriately and track progress. Most Dr.'s simply check TSH, T3,T4, and if you're low on T3/T4 put you on replacement therapy. This is a band-aid. That's also what Ray Peat says to do, just slap a band-aid on the thyroid, not fix the problem. Ok ok, he says eating lots of sugar and what-not will cure the thyroid. That's half true, but misses the other half of the story. Btw, just to clarify, Dr. Brown is not totally against thyroid hormone supplementation, but even when he has to do it, his dosages are are around 600% less than what is typically administered (He used to have to dose on average 180mg of Armour thyroid now rarely more than 30mg).

If that were true, then just about every person Dr. Brown and Dr. Abraham treated should have problems since even the smallest dosages are around 25,000 mcg. Quite the contrary.



This just shows that yes indeed you must be careful in treating those with specific diseases like hashimoto's and the specific protocol will slightly differ rather than blindly administering Iodine. I don't disagree in that sense. The advent of TSH rising has already been addressed and happens even in people without hashimoto's.



No. Lack of iodine causes goiter, not the introduction of it. Dr. Brown links several studies that show this to be true. The attached figure shows the result. The figure on the left shows the control group, and the right the group administered 9mg a day of sodium iodide. As you can clearly see, there is basically zero goiter in the iodide group and a good amount of goiter in the control group.Dr. Brown does not like iodized salt though although this was the method of treatment in the example he gave and it still worked well. Iodized salt is heavily processed, and the Iodine in the salt is not well utilized by the body compared to that in bread. Note that the study even admitted "Iodine induced thyrotoxicosis were rare". I'd even go one step further and wager they took an increased TSH and misinterpreted it to mean thyroid problems. I would need to look more into this.

Sources for the study:

[1] Marine, D. Prevention and treatment of simple goiter. Atl. Med. J. 26:436-442, 1923
[2] Marine, D. The prevention of simple goiter in man. J .Lab. Clin. Med. 3:40-48



I need more background info admittedly here to comment more intelligently. So I'll mark this to look at later. I am curious to also look up the claims about Iodine causing goiter, because that's a direct contradiction to Dr. Brown's and Dr. Abraham's research. Something fishy is going on there, but I think these claims are false, I'll have to read it more. My first guess is that they admit "Iodine causes indirect problems". My guess as to these "indirect problems" are Bromine toxicity symptoms.



Agreed. Selenium and other vitamins are critical to thyroid therapy.



Agreed. Halides other than iodine are a major problem.

​

Yes. Dr. Brown I believe first administered potassium iodide and noticed no improvements in his patients, until he started adding elemental Iodine alongside it.

I guess iodine saturation is irrelevant when there's existing damage in the thyroid. It's safer to induce a thyroid coma by giving it a break with external hormones, and only after repair, start adding supplemental iodine.

This is a classic:
Effect of small doses of iodine on thyroid function in patients with Hashimoto's thyroiditis residing in an area of mild iodine deficiency

I used to think that these adversities were because there wasn't enough selenium in the diet, it's not the case. Then I thought that perhaps it was required that selenium was given along with iodine, it's also not the case from what I read. What I couldn't find out is what happens when you give people with existing thyroid damage elemental iodine in low doses (up to 200 mcg). Will it blend fry?
Regardless if you're supplementing thyroid hormones or iodine, selenium is going to be important. Without it T4 might build up.

I have to read how much of iodine in milk occurs hormonified. The idea of calcium being protective was because of the thyroid-parathyroid relation.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Today I took another approx 300mg of iodine via lugols, which was mixed in a tablespoon of olive oil. I took this about 4 hours ago today and I feel very normal, temperature is around 98.3. I blew my nose a while ago and out came some some very gnarly dark green mucus, I’ve never seen anything like that come out of me before. I would say this is proof that the iodine is going to work in my lymphatic system. I just ordered some USP grade elemental iodine and a scale, I am going to prepare iodized olive oil with this. My plan is to take 1 or 2 grams of iodine this way every 3 months.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Stearic acid and carcinogenesis

 

[GorillaHead]

Today I took another approx 300mg of iodine via lugols, which was mixed in a tablespoon of olive oil. I took this about 4 hours ago today and I feel very normal, temperature is around 98.3. I blew my nose a while ago and out came some some very gnarly dark green mucus, I’ve never seen anything like that come out of me before. I would say this is proof that the iodine is going to work in my lymphatic system. I just ordered some USP grade elemental iodine and a scale, I am going to prepare iodized olive oil with this. My plan is to take 1 or 2 grams of iodine this way every 3 months.

Dude becareful!!


Lethal dose is 2-3 grams per cdc! Hollyshit

CDC - Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health Concentrations (IDLH): Iodine - NIOSH Publications and Products

 

[Cirion]

Yea that's too much. Even I acknowledge that being a fan of Iodine. The most I could ever foresee is 300 mg and even that is a massive dose, and not to be done every day unless perhaps you have cancer.

The reason for that is because of something I was just reading from Dr. Brown's book. Iodine apparently promotes programmed cell death, which is a normal and healthy thing the body is supposed to do (cells are supposed to age, die and be replaced with new ones - known as Apoptosis). He says when the body fails to do this correctly, cancer tends to develop.

I was reading a similar concept in Nathan Hatch's F*** portion control.

But yeah, I don't think a healthy person should have that much a day. Definitely not without the guidance of a Dr. at least who knows what they're doing.

The most I have seen so far of anyone maintaining with Iodine (from Dr. Brown) is 200 mg but that's a rarity and usually only from someone recovered from a more severe thyroid condition, the average is 50 mg, and some as low as 20 mg. The only real way to know how much you need is to check both your Iodine saturation levels AND your bromine toxicity levels. If you still feel off when both of those numbers seem right, Dr. Brown says it is probably a lack of B2/B3/Magnesium/Salt/other nutrients like selenium.

Amazoniac, Dr. Brown has treated people from all walks of life and that includes hashi's, grave's, etc with high dose iodine with great success. High dose iodine will not cause you to "blow up" or whatever with hashi's, but care should be given. In cases like that, I could indeed see some merit to prescribe some thyroid (and he does, in some cases). In many of the cases eventually their need for thyroid meds goes away or at least lessens dramatically. He does not ever recommend prescribing thyroid meds permanently without iodine as a companion. This is because when you artifically boost the thyroid through meds, you also increase the bodys' need for Iodine, and if you're already deficient in Iodine, you can wreak all sorts of havoc on the body. In this way, I'd actually argue that thyroid meds are more dangerous than Iodine supplementation. That's not to say they don't have their place, but most Dr's seem to recklessly prescribe thyroid meds without even looking at Iodine levels. I think this is one possible reason you see many forum members here never getting better despite taking thyroid meds. Also as mentioned above, selenium is not the only thing you need with iodine. You also need B2/B3/magnesium/Vitamin C/sea salt. B2 and B3 are super important because they are the so called ATP co-factors which help shuttle Iodine where they need to go. Also using radioactive iodine for treatment is highly misguided. As Dr. Brown so snarkily put it, "If by asking if radioactive iodine is effective, you mean it is effective at destroying the thyroid gland, then yes it is effective". That particular treatment should be an absolute last resort, yet it is often the first resort for medicine to treat hyperthyroid. Even though hyperthyroid is usually a deficiency of Iodine as well much like hypothyroid is (that has been his experience) EXCEPT for the case of autonomously functioning nodules (which has about a 0.1% occurrence rate in thyroid disorders, super rare), in which case surgery is a preferred treatment to radioactive iodine, because radioactive iodine can destroy more of the thyroid than just the offending nodules, PLUS cause issues to the rest of the body as well given that Iodine is used for more things than just the thyroid gland. In fact, I'd argue that radioactive Iodine could cause cancer because regular Iodine promotes apoptosis, whereas I could envision radioactive Iodine preventing apoptosis and thus promoting the growth of tumors. Using radioactive iodine to treat thyroid cancer is also heavily misguided. Nathan Hatch (F*** portion control) cured his thyroid cancer naturally without any meds (Except some thyroid meds... this is one example of where thyroid meds have their use) or radiation or any of that nonsense. He himself takes 20mg Iodine a day and continues to be in perfect health years later.

 

[baccheion]

Today I took another approx 300mg of iodine via lugols, which was mixed in a tablespoon of olive oil. I took this about 4 hours ago today and I feel very normal, temperature is around 98.3. I blew my nose a while ago and out came some some very gnarly dark green mucus, I’ve never seen anything like that come out of me before. I would say this is proof that the iodine is going to work in my lymphatic system. I just ordered some USP grade elemental iodine and a scale, I am going to prepare iodized olive oil with this. My plan is to take 1 or 2 grams of iodine this way every 3 months.

300 mg is said to be the effective upper limit for iodine. 100 mg (split across 2 servings) is even better. If wanting to take more, there's potassium iodide.

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Taking iodized oil is not the same as taking a mega dose of Lugol’s. Basically you end up with a slow release form of iodine. It appears much safer for the thyroid as well. From reviewing the literature available on prophylactic use of iodized oil for cretinism / goiter, it is clear to me based on half life that around 1 gram every 3 months should provide adequate iodine saturation... and should be less stressful on ones system than continuous daily dosing of Lugol’s with water at 25mg to 50mg. FWIW 1 gram of iodine via iodized oil is a common adult dose, done yearly, to prevent iodine deficiency. Honestly my reaction to the oil has felt very normal, the times I have taken large doses (100mg) of Lugol’s with water I have usually felt fatigued for the remainder of the day.

 

[baccheion]

Taking iodized oil is not the same as taking a mega dose of Lugol’s. Basically you end up with a slow release form of iodine. It appears much safer for the thyroid as well. From reviewing the literature available on prophylactic use of iodized oil for cretinism / goiter, it is clear to me based on half life that around 1 gram every 3 months should provide adequate iodine saturation... and should be less stressful on ones system than continuous daily dosing of Lugol’s with water at 25mg to 50mg. FWIW 1 gram of iodine via iodized oil is a common adult dose, done yearly, to prevent iodine deficiency. Honestly my reaction to the oil has felt very normal, the times I have taken large doses (100mg) of Lugol’s with water I have usually felt fatigued for the remainder of the day.

What causes the fatigue? Toxin release? Oxidative stress? Lack of ATP cofactors and companion nutrients?

 

[Cirion]

What causes the fatigue? Toxin release? Oxidative stress? Lack of ATP cofactors and companion nutrients?

Could be any of the above. Without labs it would be hard to be certain. The protocol, when followed correctly, should energize you not bring fatigue. I will confess I have had some minor fatigue complaints myself, but I suspect it's because I'm missing some B vitamins / selenium (just ordered both B2 and selenium supplements). If I still have problems I'll lower the dose to 20mg, and if there's still problems after that it'll be time to get some labs done to check things out.

 

[LeeLemonoil]

Are they iodolipids, FAs saturated by Iodine maybe an (overlooked) reason why fish might really be a more beneficial type of food than we Peatarians like to think?
What does Iodine do to the Omega-3s? Maybe it’s only isolated O3s that are not what the mainstream touts then to be.

 

[Cirion]

It's quite possible. Worth investigating further.

Dr. Brown does note about the only people who do not have Iodine insufficiency are those who live near the coast. You could take this idea further to say that only coastal people typically experience the benefits of fish intake, because they're the only ones who get enough Iodine to see the benefit. If Dr. Brown is correct and 96% of people are Iodine insufficient, and further, if the idea is correct that Omega-3's are harmful taken in isolation, and only beneficial taken in the context of Iodine sufficiency, then we can very easily see how some or many studies could conclude that Omega-3's (or even PUFA's in general) are not a beneficial fat to intake. This raises further questions, such as - are PUFA's even that bad at all? even 6, 9's? If one were to maintain Iodine saturation, and sufficient SFA intake of course.

Could this mean PUFA avoidance is yet another "fad diet"? I wouldn't put it in the realm of impossibility. First it was all the rage to blame saturated fats and sugar, now all the rage seems to be to blame starch and PUFA. (If you don't know me by yet, I love to challenge the status quo. Lol). I really am starting to think PUFA is not the devil like RP makes it out to be. Why? Because look at how many people have achieved good health while intaking PUFA. A good example - Van Hari aka Food Babe. I think I now believe to achieve good health, the two things that actually matter are 1. real food (no additives) and 2. maintaining good vitamin/mineral status.

I still do not like the idea of taking fish oil as a supplement though.

As a personal anecdote. I do recall some time back feeling very warm when I had a big piece of trout with a lot of salt on it plus some saturated fat. For what it's worth.

 

[Dave Clark]

It's quite possible. Worth investigating further.

Dr. Brown does note about the only people who do not have Iodine insufficiency are those who live near the coast. You could take this idea further to say that only coastal people typically experience the benefits of fish intake, because they're the only ones who get enough Iodine to see the benefit. If Dr. Brown is correct and 96% of people are Iodine insufficient, and further, if the idea is correct that Omega-3's are harmful taken in isolation, and only beneficial taken in the context of Iodine sufficiency, then we can very easily see how some or many studies could conclude that Omega-3's (or even PUFA's in general) are not a beneficial fat to intake. This raises further questions, such as - are PUFA's even that bad at all? even 6, 9's? If one were to maintain Iodine saturation, and sufficient SFA intake of course.

Could this mean PUFA avoidance is yet another "fad diet"? I wouldn't put it in the realm of impossibility. First it was all the rage to blame saturated fats and sugar, now all the rage seems to be to blame starch and PUFA. (If you don't know me by yet, I love to challenge the status quo. Lol). I really am starting to think PUFA is not the devil like RP makes it out to be. Why? Because look at how many people have achieved good health while intaking PUFA. A good example - Van Hari aka Food Babe. I think I now believe to achieve good health, the two things that actually matter are 1. real food (no additives) and 2. maintaining good vitamin/mineral status.

I still do not like the idea of taking fish oil as a supplement though.

As a personal anecdote. I do recall some time back feeling very warm when I had a big piece of trout with a lot of salt on it plus some saturated fat. For what it's worth.

If that ever turns out to be true, you can add humble pie to the Peatarian's dietary list!

 

[Cirion]

I think the real problem is that a lot of PUFA heavy foods that are in the standard american diet (SAD) are junk foods with additives. PUFA could unfairly be given some blame due to that. Much like how SFA's / sugar get unfairly blamed because they also are in junk foods. That, and people are eating too high overall of PUFA to SFA ratios. Even if Iodine can indeed make PUFA's safe, it wouldn't give someone permission to eat 100g of PUFA. So I wouldn't take this news as liberty to down entire jug of peanut butter, rather, I'd rather take it to mean that the occasional nuts are OK and possibly even beneficial (example - almonds are high in natural vitamin E, brazillian nuts are high in natural selenium, and of course eggs which are high in many nutrients).

Also, if someone has a ton of stored PUFA's, I still can see how that can be a bad thing. It would take a lot of SFA's / Iodine to inactivate several pounds of PUFA's.

 

[LLight]

Today I took another approx 300mg of iodine via lugols, which was mixed in a tablespoon of olive oil. I took this about 4 hours ago today and I feel very normal, temperature is around 98.3. I blew my nose a while ago and out came some some very gnarly dark green mucus, I’ve never seen anything like that come out of me before. I would say this is proof that the iodine is going to work in my lymphatic system. I just ordered some USP grade elemental iodine and a scale, I am going to prepare iodized olive oil with this. My plan is to take 1 or 2 grams of iodine this way every 3 months.

Potassium iodide is an expectorant, so it may be the reason you released mucus.
I tried to add Lugol to olive oil as you and I observed that the amber tint (I think it's the iodine, that saturate fats thus) goes away after having mixed the whole. However, there remains some translucent liquid that should be the potassium iodide.

 

[tankasnowgod]

Thanks. So it seems that Iodized oil makes for an extended release form that is more bio-available with a very long half life around 1 year. It seems taking a mega dose of the oil does not expose you to all the iodine at once like taking straight Lugol’s might. Evidently with oral iodine supplementation a lot of iodine gets excreted within the first 24 hours... taking as an iodized monounsaturated fat may be superior to keeping levels higher for longer. I still wish there was more information on this available. Literature suggests mono is superior to poly unsaturated fats for the longer half life and higher bio availability. FWIW I mixed 300mg of Lugol’s last night with 1 tbsp of olive oil, it became a solid red color, I drank it all and went to bed, no side effects at all, I slept better than usual. This is 3 times the highest dose I think I have ever taken in one go, which in raw Lugol’s form would sometimes leave me a little funny feeling, this felt much more mild than that. I am going to order pure elemenal iodine next to make my own iodized oil, I think mixing Lugol’s with oil must yield something a bit different from pure iodostearic acid.

'
Here's a study that showed a one time dose of 200mg iodine in iodized oil did not induce hypo or hyperthyroidism, and, seeing as it measured TSH, likely did not spike TSH, either-

Low dose oral iodized oil for control of iodine deficiency in children. - PubMed - NCBI

 

[Captain_Coconut]

Potassium iodide is an expectorant, so it may be the reason you released mucus.
I tried to add Lugol to olive oil as you and I observed that the amber tint (I think it's the iodine, that saturate fats thus) goes away after having mixed the whole. However, there remains some translucent liquid that should be the potassium iodide.

It depends on the ratio, a few drops in oil will look as if it is clear. If you do like a 1:1 ratio Lugol’s to oil, you get a dark red like upper layer and a lower light brown layer, I think the lower layer may be the potassium iodide. I am excited to figure out how to iodize oil with pure elemental iodine, if I am correct it will be a purple colored oil, I can’t find ANY instructions on how this oil is prepared, it is the hardest to find information on a simple substance I have ever encountered, makes you wonder why..... too good for big pharma?? In a few days I will receive the pure stuff in the mail, and start by seeing if simple room temperature + time is enough to get the reaction. It may require some heating, but if heated too much the iodine sublimes and that is something I can’t work with at home. There is a stage where it reaches a boiling temp so perhaps somewhere around there is enough to speed the reaction without hot purple gas bubbles popping in my kitchen.... seeing as how it is a halogen I am hoping the process does not take a lot of forcing...

 

[Captain_Coconut]

I think the real problem is that a lot of PUFA heavy foods that are in the standard american diet (SAD) are junk foods with additives. PUFA could unfairly be given some blame due to that. Much like how SFA's / sugar get unfairly blamed because they also are in junk foods. That, and people are eating too high overall of PUFA to SFA ratios. Even if Iodine can indeed make PUFA's safe, it wouldn't give someone permission to eat 100g of PUFA. So I wouldn't take this news as liberty to down entire jug of peanut butter, rather, I'd rather take it to mean that the occasional nuts are OK and possibly even beneficial (example - almonds are high in natural vitamin E, brazillian nuts are high in natural selenium, and of course eggs which are high in many nutrients).

Also, if someone has a ton of stored PUFA's, I still can see how that can be a bad thing. It would take a lot of SFA's / Iodine to inactivate several pounds of PUFA's.

I have wondered about this too. Though I am still convinced PUFA is evil on the typical SAD diet, I have always wondered why do cells seem to preferentially integrate PUFA over SFA and even MFA... it is almost as though they are programmed to use PUFA and only resort to other fats in times of scarcity.... seems awfully bizarre for these bodies of ours to be so off-base... why haven’t we evolved to only integrate SFA by now? There are plenty of other things we eat that we don’t assimilate... BUT Perhaps it is similar to the way our bodies are pretty bad at retaining Iodine and instead are full of Bromide — because of the molecular reactivity.