Mega Dosing Iodine = Bad, Destroys Thyroid Tissue Permanently

[ebs]

i want to implement 2g taurine, split into 1g at morning 1g at night. do you know why it causes the fatigue feeling, does it do that for you too.
how does it attenuate mucuna pruriens effect. does it attenuate other things like other herbs, vitamins minerals

Most likely through promoting gaba-a receptor activity. Benzos are supposed to make you tired too. Perhaps you're sensitive to gaba hence you become fatigued.

For me taurine is a little more stimulating so it doesn't work as a sleep aid while it does for others.

Taurine enchanges mucuna pruriens most likely through the dopamine pathway while at the same time it supposedly lowers adrenaline (so dopamine doesn't get converted as quickly).

Btw, I just noticed that I was using 'attenuate' in the wrong context because it's the opposite of what I actually meant (English isn't my mother language). Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[SOMO]

I’ve taken high doses of both Lugols and Potassium Iodide with no side effects. This was before I found a reliable source of T3.

I don’t understand how the Iodine ion or Potassium iodide which converts to Thyroid hormone is bad.

How exactly does the Iodine Value relate to human fat?

 

[BigChad]

I’ve taken high doses of both Lugols and Potassium Iodide with no side effects. This was before I found a reliable source of T3.

I don’t understand how the Iodine ion or Potassium iodide which converts to Thyroid hormone is bad.

How exactly does the Iodine Value relate to human fat?

high dose iodine can cause hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, as well as hypothyroidism which later becomes hyperthyroidism or hyperthyroidism which later becomes hypothyroidism. normally there is the wolf chaikoff effect, an iodine megadose shuts down the thyroid for a certain amount of time, some people days, some weeks some months, before normal thyroid function resumes. in people with abnormal thyroid function it can make you hypothyroid or hyperthyroid for much longer. It's not like take more iodine = lose more fat/make more thyroid hormone, otherwise burning fat/losing weight would be far too easy. it has a narrow range of therapeutic value, given rays comments on iodine, plus my own experience with it I am highly doubtful that there are any benefits to megadosing it. I've never met or seen someone healthy who does so. have you done a thyroid ultrasound or any labwork? what was your bodyfat percentage before and after megadosing iodine?

 

[ebs]

I don’t understand how the Iodine ion or Potassium iodide which converts to Thyroid hormone is bad.

And I don't understand why it makes me feel bad. Perhaps the Ray Peat logic of 'feeling worse before feeling better' applies here but I have my doubts. How long is someone supposed to feel bad on something with the hopes that one day you may start to feel better? It can be a huge waste of time and potentially ruin your health.

Other stuff like glycine, taurine, magnesium, niacinamide and other b vitamines make me feel better pretty much instantly.

 

[BigChad]

And I don't understand why it makes me feel bad. Perhaps the Ray Peat logic of 'feeling worse before feeling better' applies here but I have my doubts. How long is someone supposed to feel bad on something with the hopes that one day you may start to feel better? It can be a huge waste of time and potentially ruin your health.

Other stuff like glycine, taurine, magnesium, niacinamide and other b vitamines make me feel better pretty much instantly.

there is no way more iodine = more thyroid hormone if that was the case you wouldn't see Ray himself putting out warnings on iodine, that it should be limited to 500mcg max, preferably under 500mcg. He basically advised rda for it iirc.
its well known phenomenon that mega dose iodine shuts down the thyroid. in some cases it causes a dump of all your thyroid hormone at once which causes hyperthyroidism followed by hypothyroidism. I felt very euphoric anytime I megadose iodine, yet as soon as it wears off i'm in worse shape and worse health than if i never used the iodine

 

[ebs]

there is no way more iodine = more thyroid hormone if that was the case you wouldn't see Ray himself putting out warnings on iodine, that it should be limited to 500mcg max, preferably under 500mcg. He basically advised rda for it iirc.
its well known phenomenon that mega dose iodine shuts down the thyroid. in some cases it causes a dump of all your thyroid hormone at once which causes hyperthyroidism followed by hypothyroidism. I felt very euphoric anytime I megadose iodine, yet as soon as it wears off i'm in worse shape and worse health than if i never used the iodine

But I'm talking about the tiny and safe amount of 150mcg. I've probably been having inadequate iodine intake throughout most of my life all the while drinking lots of tap water. If the thyroid is in need of iodine it is supposed to make you feel better when you have hypo symptoms, not make it worse. It feels as if my body doesn't want it. I guess I have to check my blood levels but I would be suprised if I don't have a deficiency.

 

[BigChad]

But I'm talking about the tiny and safe amount of 150mcg. I've probably been having inadequate iodine intake throughout most of my life all the while drinking lots of tap water. If the thyroid is in need of iodine it is supposed to make you feel better when you have hypo symptoms, not make it worse. It feels as if my body doesn't want it. I guess I have to check my blood levels but I would be suprised if I don't have a deficiency.

what is your diet? how do you know you are iodine deficient? which iodine product did you try that had 150mcg? seaweed products dont work the same as potassium iodide

 

[Cirion]

And I don't understand why it makes me feel bad. Perhaps the Ray Peat logic of 'feeling worse before feeling better' applies here but I have my doubts. How long is someone supposed to feel bad on something with the hopes that one day you may start to feel better? It can be a huge waste of time and potentially ruin your health.

Other stuff like glycine, taurine, magnesium, niacinamide and other b vitamines make me feel better pretty much instantly.

I no longer believe in the "feeling worse before feeling better" mantra. If you feel worse, you're doing it wrong. Something I wish I had accepted sooner. Would have saved me a lot of pain. At most maybe you'd have 1-2 days of feeling bad, and the only reason for that would not be detox but the shut off of stress hormones, and a day or two of rest should clear it up. Anymore of 1-2 days of feeling bad 100% guaranteed something was done wrong.

This way of looking at things is now helping me quickly eliminate things that aren't helpful to me. I was trying to force making things work. If they don't work they probably won't ever work. No more forcing it.

 

[BigChad]

With iodine i feel amazing the 2 days after using it but then get worse. So even feeling good using something doesn't guarantee anything

 

[Cirion]

With iodine i feel amazing the 2 days after using it but then get worse. So even feeling good using something doesn't guarantee anything

Well that's what I'm saying though, you're actually proving my point. Maybe I should have clarified to say "consistently good". I would say you need at least a week or two to really be sure. Naturally if it makes you feel bad after a few days of feeling good it's not a great thing.

 

[SOMO]

there is no way more iodine = more thyroid hormone if that was the case you wouldn't see Ray himself putting out warnings on iodine, that it should be limited to 500mcg max, preferably under 500mcg. He basically advised rda for it iirc.
its well known phenomenon that mega dose iodine shuts down the thyroid. in some cases it causes a dump of all your thyroid hormone at once which causes hyperthyroidism followed by hypothyroidism. I felt very euphoric anytime I megadose iodine, yet as soon as it wears off i'm in worse shape and worse health than if i never used the iodine

Instead of saying it’s a “well known fact” that Iodine shuts down thyroid, why not post some studies that show Iodine shuts down thyroid?

T3 is made up of Iodine, logic would dictate MORE Iodine = MORE T3.

 

[BigChad]

Instead of saying it’s a “well known fact” that Iodine shuts down thyroid, why not post some studies that show Iodine shuts down thyroid?

T3 is made up of Iodine, logic would dictate MORE Iodine = MORE T3.

That's flat out dangerous advice and flat out false.
nobody burns fat from megadosing iodine, rather it's the contrary, you gain fat on it.
Zinc and selenium help convert T4 to T3. Actually nearly every mineral is involved in creating thyroid hormone. Yet nobody suddenly starts burning fat from megadosing any mineral.

Megadosing Iodine would be anti peat regardless, Peat's max dose is 500mcg while even the current fda upper limit is 1000mcg iirc.
Megadosing it can cause hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, hypo followed by temporary hyper, hyper followed by temporary hypo, etc.
Countries that added salt iodization programs noted a significant increase in autoimmune disease incidences. Thyroid related issues are more common in parts of the world where iodine is consumed in large amounts.

 

[Dave Clark]

I am basically on the fence about dosage, but what comes to mind when I hear the assertions that mega dose iodine causes all these problems is how is it that these iodine doctors like Brownstein, Abrahms, Flechas, Buist, etc., etc. treat literally tens of thousands of people with these therapies with success? If this high dose iodine was as dramatically problematic as some people here assert, these doctors (and they are just the popular ones in the mainstream, there are many more) would have aborted this protocol long ago! There are as many studies and anecdotes for it as there are against it.

 

[Cirion]

I am basically on the fence about dosage, but what comes to mind when I hear the assertions that mega dose iodine causes all these problems is how is it that these iodine doctors like Brownstein, Abrahms, Flechas, Buist, etc., etc. treat literally tens of thousands of people with these therapies with success? If this high dose iodine was as dramatically problematic as some people here assert, these doctors (and they are just the popular ones in the mainstream, there are many more) would have aborted this protocol long ago! There are as many studies and anecdotes for it as there are against it.

Yeh this is why you should only do this under the guidance of a doctor who doses it correctly. 50 mg is not the correct dosage for everyone. And, it's not the correct dosage for all of time. AND, it doesn't account for other things like how much cofactors you need, among other things. I won't play with iodine again without supervision of some sort. If you decide to mega dose on your own, without even testing for anything, prepare to possibly face the consequences.

 

[baccheion]

Taurine seems to make me quite tired in 1000mg doses. glycine 700mg taken with 100mg magnesium glycinate seems to cause insomnia at night then fatigue the next day. with magnesium aspartate i dont get any such issues. it seems like there is something in glycine that interferes with sleep quality, staying asleep, etc. i remember on glycine even if i fell asleep I would wake up in the middle of the night. i havent tested out phenylalanine or tyrosine

Higher doses (3-5 grams) are what's said to be stimulating.

That's flat out dangerous advice and flat out false.
nobody burns fat from megadosing iodine, rather it's the contrary, you gain fat on it.
Zinc and selenium help convert T4 to T3. Actually nearly every mineral is involved in creating thyroid hormone. Yet nobody suddenly starts burning fat from megadosing any mineral.

Megadosing Iodine would be anti peat regardless, Peat's max dose is 500mcg while even the current fda upper limit is 1000mcg iirc.
Megadosing it can cause hypothyroidism, hyperthyroidism, hypo followed by temporary hyper, hyper followed by temporary hypo, etc.
Countries that added salt iodization programs noted a significant increase in autoimmune disease incidences. Thyroid related issues are more common in parts of the world where iodine is consumed in large amounts.

Due to iodine rather than bromide being used in bread (and other factors), decades ago people got ~600-700 mcg/day. In the decades before that, it was ~1 mg. Low intakes these days are what's anomalous. On the other hand, it being the case previously doesn't necessarily mean it was a good thing.

 

[Dave Clark]

Yeh this is why you should only do this under the guidance of a doctor who doses it correctly. 50 mg is not the correct dosage for everyone. And, it's not the correct dosage for all of time. AND, it doesn't account for other things like how much cofactors you need, among other things. I won't play with iodine again without supervision of some sort. If you decide to mega dose on your own, without even testing for anything, prepare to possibly face the consequences.

Yeah, point taken. I don't know about others, but I live in a 50 mile radius of a big city, Philly to be exact, and I cannot find one iodine literate doctor. My functional medicine doctor, who does everything from ozone to IVs, etc. will only recommend a few mgs of iodine, and he won't get into testing or anything else. Most doctors don't know anything about it, or they are scared of it. I suppose what most people are doing is to educate themselves as much as possible, test whatever they have access to, and just let it roll. Much of the negative feedback probably really does represent detoxing of halogens, rather than the iodine itself, but it is hard to validate. If someone is following Peat to the tee, they won't be using iodine or boron to detox halogens, but I often wonder (no disrespect to Ray) how up to speed he is with new protocols and their validity. The only reason I commented was that I can't buy into the 'if you take high dose iodine you will become hypo, hyper, thyroid disease, etc., etc.' If that assertion was straight across the board true, no doctors would continue down that path. The iodine literate doctors know the problems are in the details like cofactors and halogen toxicity, not necessarily the iodine. This just has to be worked through. It's an interesting topic and won't be agreed upon any sooner than vegans and carnivores

 

[Cirion]

Gotcha. Probably at least then try to get the bromine/iodine testing done because these, besides the thyroid tests, are the best way to determine correct dosage and correct as needed.

As for veganism vs. carnivore... mmm... that's a juicy one because now I have 5 months of experimental data that shows vegan is superior (With caveats/exceptions)........... but, I don't want to derail this thread lol.

 

[BigChad]

Higher doses (3-5 grams) are what's said to be stimulating.

Due to iodine rather than bromide being used in bread (and other factors), decades ago people got ~600-700 mcg/day. In the decades before that, it was ~1 mg. Low intakes these days are what's anomalous. On the other hand, it being the case previously doesn't necessarily mean it was a good thing.

Glycine was weird, even the 700mg in 100mg magnesium aspartate caps, seemed to stimulate if taken at night, for just a couple hours, then would cause fatigue after that, along with waking up throughout the night. As well as fatigue/grogginess the next day.

That's true, iodine is less toxic than bromide. 600-700mcg may not be too high, also I wonder if some of that iodine got cooked out of the bread? Bread would have gluten and some fiber as well, gluten is a goitrogen. Generally the more goitrogens you consume, the more iodine you can safely handle. In the Japanese cultures, even seaweed itself is goitrogen and limits how much iodine you can absorb, then you have the other soy based foods which also limit absorption. Although I remember Ray mentioning once that bromide has a function in the body and to not be concerned about bromide from animal sources like meat. Potassium bromide I guess is something else and more toxic.

 

[baccheion]

Glycine was weird, even the 700mg in 100mg magnesium aspartate caps, seemed to stimulate if taken at night, for just a couple hours, then would cause fatigue after that, along with waking up throughout the night. As well as fatigue/grogginess the next day.

That's true, iodine is less toxic than bromide. 600-700mcg may not be too high, also I wonder if some of that iodine got cooked out of the bread? Bread would have gluten and some fiber as well, gluten is a goitrogen. Generally the more goitrogens you consume, the more iodine you can safely handle. In the Japanese cultures, even seaweed itself is goitrogen and limits how much iodine you can absorb, then you have the other soy based foods which also limit absorption. Although I remember Ray mentioning once that bromide has a function in the body and to not be concerned about bromide from animal sources like meat. Potassium bromide I guess is something else and more toxic.

Glycine can be either stimulatory, or sedating. That is, if in glutamate mode, it'll amplify that excitatory state. If in GABA mode, it'll act more like a sedative. It can also be stimulatory due to GABA opposing serotonin, allowing acetylcholine and dopamine to go up. Eventually, GABA also opposes acetylcholine and everything else.

 

[Dave Clark]

Glycine was weird, even the 700mg in 100mg magnesium aspartate caps, seemed to stimulate if taken at night, for just a couple hours, then would cause fatigue after that, along with waking up throughout the night. As well as fatigue/grogginess the next day.

That's true, iodine is less toxic than bromide. 600-700mcg may not be too high, also I wonder if some of that iodine got cooked out of the bread? Bread would have gluten and some fiber as well, gluten is a goitrogen. Generally the more goitrogens you consume, the more iodine you can safely handle. In the Japanese cultures, even seaweed itself is goitrogen and limits how much iodine you can absorb, then you have the other soy based foods which also limit absorption. Although I remember Ray mentioning once that bromide has a function in the body and to not be concerned about bromide from animal sources like meat. Potassium bromide I guess is something else and more toxic.

Ya see all kinds of contradictions in this arena. Here's one I can't wrap my head around (especially if you follow the iodine therapy literature), a taurine product with added bromine: Taurine 'n More