Meeting Dr. Peat

[NathanK]

Here's a message sent to Danny Roddy on December 8, 2016. It was from an interview with Dr. Peat earlier that year.

Dear Danny,

Hope all is well with you. I e-mailed you a while back about Ray's contact info, and then again about thyroid panels. I'm doing way better now, mostly because of DHEA and pregnenolone supplementation, caffeine, (and I just started thyroid again, but it's rough.) Anyway, I found my notes that i got from Ray, and they're scribbles but here's the summation:


- Ray stressed the importance of William Koch's work, particularly on quinones

- The four protective factors are as follows:

1) CO2

2) T3 (active thyroid hormone)

3) Pregnenolone/progesterone

4) Androgens and DHEA

(I assume he implied adequate glucose along with these.)


- He stressed the importance of selenium in hypothyroid people, as well as adequate sugar.

- He said a few mcg of T3 would put him to sleep at night.

- Thyroid function is the key to oxygen and CO2 balance

- In a hypothyroid state, sodium and magnesium are dumped.

- Cells of people with healthy thyroid function prefer potassium to sodium.

- An energized state is the relaxed state

- Vitamin E and quinones can share partial electrons and produce a black pigment (I'm assuming he's talking about in the liver)

- Adding an electron donor, or an electron acceptor to a muscle cell will cause nothing; adding both will cause the muscle to contract

- Sydney Bernhard's research "living state" (I think that's what it's called.)

- Oxygen causes damage to the electron system of transport through sugar and fat

- Protective steroids bolster the whole system

- Carbon yield groups activates another repair process

- Vitamin C is an example of carbon yield groups (could explain Linus Pauling's success)

- Quinones (and I think he meant along with vitamin C) pull electrons partly out of the protein matrix, and thereby free the cell from an excess of electrons, thereby limiting free radical damage.

Thanks for sharing. There are some interesting nuggets in there.

In particular, how people with healthy thyroid function prefer potassium over sodium. Ive found it interesting how some people can be 'sweet' people while others prefer salty snacks. So that may be a clue.

Using thyroid to help with sleep and the emphasis of selenium and quinones also piqued my attention.

 

[Drareg]

He drives an early 2000s model Toyota Hilux. One of the most reliable and functional vehicles around.

I see a future straw man on this forum along the lines of Peat not driving electric or a hydrogen powered car,if he does start driving electric a new straw man because it's not water/steam powered,ad infinitum.

 

[Drareg]

Is anybody getting withdrawals from the lack of a kmud interview this month?
Have I missed something?

 

[Peatful]

Is anybody getting withdrawals from the lack of a kmud interview this month?
Have I missed something?

It's the third Thursday I believe....?

 

[aguilaroja]

....Anyway, I found my notes that i got from Ray, and they're scribbles but here's the summation:
...
- Carbon yield groups activates another repair process
- Vitamin C is an example of carbon yield groups (could explain Linus Pauling's success)
- Quinones (and I think he meant along with vitamin C) pull electrons partly out of the protein matrix, and thereby free the cell from an excess of electrons, thereby limiting free radical damage.

With respect, for clarification, perhaps Dr. Peat was referring to "carbonyl groups" rather than "carbon yield groups". See, for instance:

Carbonyl Stress in Aging Process: Role of Vitamins and Phytochemicals as Redox Regulators
"the degree of metabolic modulation and adaptation response of cells to reductants as well as oxidants...is linked with very critical balance in imbalances in cellular redox capacity and signaling, and that might be an answer the questions why some antioxidants or phytochemicals potentially could do more harm than good, or why some proteins lose their function by increase interactions with glyco- and lipo-oxidation mediates in the cells (carbonyl stress)."

 

[x-ray peat]

I see a future straw man on this forum along the lines of Peat not driving electric or a hydrogen powered car,if he does start driving electric a new straw man because it's not water/steam powered,ad infinitum.

It would not even be a strawman, just a misinformed SJW, as Ray doesn't believe in man-made global warming and certainly not that CO2 is the bad guy.

 

[DaveFoster]

With respect, for clarification, perhaps Dr. Peat was referring to "carbonyl groups" rather than "carbon yield groups". See, for instance:

Carbonyl Stress in Aging Process: Role of Vitamins and Phytochemicals as Redox Regulators
"the degree of metabolic modulation and adaptation response of cells to reductants as well as oxidants...is linked with very critical balance in imbalances in cellular redox capacity and signaling, and that might be an answer the questions why some antioxidants or phytochemicals potentially could do more harm than good, or why some proteins lose their function by increase interactions with glyco- and lipo-oxidation mediates in the cells (carbonyl stress)."

You're probably right. After interviewing him, I couldn't find any relevant articles on "carbon yield groups," so your argument makes sense.

 

[milk_lover]

Thanks for sharing. There are some interesting nuggets in there.

In particular, how people with healthy thyroid function prefer potassium over sodium. Ive found it interesting how some people can be 'sweet' people while others prefer salty snacks. So that may be a clue.

Using thyroid to help with sleep and the emphasis of selenium and quinones also piqued my attention.

The sweet people are the potassium folks? I drink large quantities of milk and Coke/Pepsi and I don't even think of salt.. Milk has 3 to 1 ratio (potassium/salt).. Although Peat has said Coke has respectful amounts of potassium, it seems from searching online regular Coke has few mg's of potassium. This blog Soft Drinks Having High Potassium | Now Know It lists the soft drinks that have high amounts of potassium. Diet Dew tastes super good for me even though it has no sugar and it has large amounts of potassium.. Pepsi and Coke have small amounts of potassium..

 

[NathanK]

The sweet people are the potassium folks? I drink large quantities of milk and Coke/Pepsi and I don't even think of salt.. Milk has 3 to 1 ratio (potassium/salt).. Although Peat has said Coke has respectful amounts of potassium, it seems from searching online regular Coke has few mg's of potassium. This blog Soft Drinks Having High Potassium | Now Know It lists the soft drinks that have high amounts of potassium. Diet Dew tastes super good for me even though it has no sugar and it has large amounts of potassium.. Pepsi and Coke have small amounts of potassium..

I took it as the desire for sweet fruit which are typically loaded with potassium.

I wonder if you started to drink fruit juices instead of sodas if you might find your desire for sweetness satiated quicker/more fully.

Anecdotally, my father and I have always been sweet people too and we've never had any real thyroid issues. My mother on the other hand needs thyroid, doesnt care for sweets, and loves things like potato chips.

 

[milk_lover]

I took it as the desire for sweet fruit which are typically loaded with potassium.

I wonder if you started to drink fruit juices instead of sodas if you might find your desire for sweetness satiated quicker/more fully.

Anecdotally, my father and I have always been sweet people too and we've never had any real thyroid issues. My mother on the other hand needs thyroid, doesnt care for sweets, and loves things like potato chips.

I would love to drink fruit juices because I actually enjoy them but commercial OJ always gives me issues. I like the taste of commercial apple juice better than commercial OJ but nothing beats freshly-squeezed OJ. I drink sodas to get some sugar into my system and some caffeine and mainly at work to reduce mental stress from dealing with too much numbers.

 

[NathanK]

I would love to drink fruit juices because I actually enjoy them but commercial OJ always gives me issues. I like the taste of commercial apple juice better than commercial OJ but nothing beats freshly-squeezed OJ. I drink sodas to get some sugar into my system and some caffeine and mainly at work to reduce mental stress from dealing with too much numbers.

My only issue with sodas is it's really easy to pound those calories. I try to only drink them when Im out if I can. If i drink alcohol the night before all bets are off. Probably more a brain sugar depletion than potassium thing though lol

 

[Such_Saturation]

- Adding an electron donor, or an electron acceptor to a muscle cell will cause nothing; adding both will cause the muscle to contract

Why?

 

[Travis]

- Vitamin E and quinones can share partial electrons and produce a black pigment (I'm assuming he's talking about in the liver)

They form a charge transfer complex. Albert Szent-Gyorgyi has books on this. When vitamin E accepts a free radical (unpaired) electron, it protects the PUFAs in the cell membrane from a peroxidation chain reaction. Water-soluble quinones (vitamin C, ubiquinol, vitamin K) regenerate vitamin E by taking the free radical electron.

This can be predicted. People like Szent-Gyorgyi and the Pullman's measured single electron affinity potentials of many molecules. A free radical will donate it's unpaired electron to a molecule with a lower potential.

A charge transfer complex happens when the two molecules actually stick together and share the unpaired electron. This is not considered a true covalent bond, but a temporary overlapping of the orbitals. Those quinone rings are planar, and they are thought to interact more like "stacked plates" than an end-to-end manner.

 

[Wagner83]

- The four protective factors are as follows:

1) CO2

That reminds me of member visionofstrength who is still a fan of CO2 as the number one marker of health and number one cure to a lot of our issues.

 

[milk_lover]

My only issue with sodas is it's really easy to pound those calories. I try to only drink them when Im out if I can. If i drink alcohol the night before all bets are off. Probably more a brain sugar depletion than potassium thing though lol

Yeah I can see that it might increase calories intake.. But I find drinking 2 cans of Pepsi as 'breakfast' in the morning satisfying until lunch while working optimally in my desk computer job.. Still if I have the choice between good fruit/juice and sodas, I would choose the former.. Practically in my situation, it's too much work to find those quality fruits. Alcohol is overrated man; I don't know why many westerners and easterners enjoy it. Koreans are crazy about alcohol! And each work dinner we have, all managers and workers get hammered and I don't know how they can have fun while losing their mind..

 

[Drareg]

It would not even be a strawman, just a misinformed SJW, as Ray doesn't believe in man-made global warming and certainly not that CO2 is the bad guy.

Why not create a car then that runs on co2,hypocrite! Says he knows everything about co2!

This global warming campaign would be easily achieved if they just came out and said we want to stop dumping plastic crap everywhere and making cities difficult to breath air rather than doomsday nonsense for public support.
Some countries easily adopted the pay for plastic bad policy in supermarkets for example.
The other side to global warming is the corrupt profit driven side,always there with humans.

 

[Djukami]

I don't know how they can have fun while losing their mind

Well, perhaps it is exact the purpose of it: to think less. Using it on work meeting is weird though xD
But, I think there is also this idea of drinking alcohol being prestigious. I remember being in a dinner where only people with higher status could drink alcohol.
I also find it ridiculous how in a Hotel Management course there is a class to talk about wines and the different types of them, but there is no class to talk about juices and the different variety of juices you can make. You can learn about it outside, but it is not in the major program.

Of course, then there's also if you have a toxic/depressed mind, using alcohol to "forget" about your life situation for a little bit.

 

[Travis]

- Adding an electron donor, or an electron acceptor to a muscle cell will cause nothing; adding both will cause the muscle to contract

Why?

The only way to create a potential is with two opposite charges. You can stimulate muscle with a copper wire, but you need to create a ground⁺ first.

Perhaps the electrons flow from from the negative molecule, through the protein, and to the positive molecule?

 

[kateb]

I think something like Noam Chomsky just based on his writing which is well informed, critical of establishment and with a focus on the work rather than the self hence the simple lifestyle.

 

[Travis]

I think something like Noam Chomsky just based on his writing which is well informed, critical of establishment and with a focus on the work rather than the self hence the simple lifestyle.

Ray Peat actually talks about Noam Chomsky:

Chomsky's “generative grammar” was ultra-rationalistic, and was easy to set up in computers, though it was perfectly useless in itself.

Can art instruct science? William Blake as biological visionary

And it looks as though he even had corresponded with Chomsky:

Years ago, I had been criticizing Noam Chomsky's theory of language so much, that I thought I might have misjudged or inappropriately depreciated his general attitude toward consciousness, so I asked him some questions about the intelligence of animals. His response confirmed my view that he subscribed to the most extreme form of "genetic epistemology":

Intuitive knowledge and its development - Ray Peat

This next article is the most critical of Chomsky. I think he kinda irritates Ray Peat:

The first thing a person is likely to notice when looking at Chomsky's work in linguistics is that he offers no evidence to support his extreme assertions. In fact, the main role evidence plays in his basic scheme is negative, that is, his doctrine of “Poverty of the Stimulus” asserts that children aren't exposed to enough examples of language for them to be able to learn grammar--therefore, grammar must be inborn.

He goes on...

I think Chomsky discovered long ago that the people around him were sufficiently authoritarian to accept assertions without evidence if they were presented in a form that looked complexly technical. Several people have published their correspondence with him, showing him to be authoritarian and arrogant, even rude and insulting, if the person questioned his handling of evidence, or the lack of evidence.

Academic authoritarians, language, metaphor, animals, and science