Meditation Is Being Warped & Perverted By New-Agers

[DMF]

Emptying the mind - Mindlessness - No Mind, is the way I was grounded in Meditation - the Zen way or ZaZen in other terms.
Nowadays it's all "mindfulness" or I suppose the opposite. New - comers into meditation are being short-changed, misdirected or misguided, going down the wrong path.
I heard an "expert" on the radio talk about this mindfulness stuff while quoting Philip Kaplow's "Three Pillars Of Zen". Somebody needs to put the brake lights on someway somewhere.

 

[lampofred]

Exactly, while meditating the goal is to keep your mind completely blank so that you can realign yourself with your unconscious instincts, not focus on breath or sensations or dissociating yourself from your body, but the way it's being taught in so many places is doing the exact opposite.

 

[Waynish]

Meditation is not about keeping the mind blank. It seems like almost everyone who talks about meditation has obviously not done much of it. The mind is tamed via training & detachment - it is transcended, not made "blank."

There are really only two aspects:
-- Samadhi, it has had many names, but a good translation is "single pointed focus." There are many topics one can choose to still the mind upon - the breath was recommended by the Buddha. However, most meditators do not know how to be single pointed on a topic for even one second. For example, they still the mind on the breath and the mind constantly moves with the sensations of its movement. One cannot break through this way.
-- Vipassana, akin to clarity and insight. Commonly misunderstood; read more here:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive...d/Meditations9/170330TheBuddha'sVipassana.pdf

For anyone interested, I recommend listening to the evening talks at dhammatalks.org - this guy has real experience and isn't deluded or deluding. Jump right in and start sitting. Remember, do not move one iota during your sits :)

 

[lampofred]

Meditation is not about keeping the mind blank. It seems like almost everyone who talks about meditation has obviously not done much of it. The mind is tamed via training & detachment - it is transcended, not made "blank."

There are really only two aspects:
-- Samadhi, it has had many names, but a good translation is "single pointed focus." There are many topics one can choose to still the mind upon - the breath was recommended by the Buddha. However, most meditators do not know how to be single pointed on a topic for even one second. For example, they still the mind on the breath and the mind constantly moves with the sensations of its movement. One cannot break through this way.
-- Vipassana, akin to clarity and insight. Commonly misunderstood; read more here:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive...d/Meditations9/170330TheBuddha'sVipassana.pdf

For anyone interested, I recommend listening to the evening talks at dhammatalks.org - this guy has real experience and isn't deluded or deluding. Jump right in and start sitting. Remember, do not move one iota during your sits :)

The purpose of meditation in ancient times was to realign you with your body/instincts and reduce the dominance of the logical mind over unconscious mind, which is why it entailed being fully relaxed, remaining thoughtless, and hypoventilating. Modern day meditation is not really meditation, like you mentioned it has turned into a brain training activity, and it actually makes the dominance of the conscious mind over the unconscious mind even stronger. It goes against the ancient purpose of meditation in pretty much exactly the opposite way.

Samadhi is the opposite of willful focus. It is utter relaxation and thoughtlessness. Forcing yourself to sit still even when you are in pain, "detaching" yourself from your body and pain, which is so popular in meditation retreats, is the opposite of meditating.

Meditation should be pain-free, relaxing, pleasurable, even hedonistic once you've gone deep enough.

 

[LUH 3417]

The purpose of meditation in ancient times was to realign you with your body/instincts and reduce the dominance of the logical mind over unconscious mind, which is why it entailed being fully relaxed, remaining thoughtless, and hypoventilating. Modern day meditation is not really meditation, like you mentioned it has turned into a brain training activity, and it actually makes the dominance of the conscious mind over the unconscious mind even stronger. It goes against the ancient purpose of meditation in pretty much exactly the opposite way.

Samadhi is the opposite of willful focus. It is utter relaxation and thoughtlessness. Forcing yourself to sit still even when you are in pain, "detaching" yourself from your body and pain, which is so popular in meditation retreats, is the opposite of meditating.

Meditation should be pain-free, relaxing, pleasurable, even hedonistic once you've gone deep enough.

So what are you supposed to focus on while you focus on not focusing

 

[yerrag]

Meditation is so simple that it just doesn't fit in with how modern society is structured. To be relevant to a world wracked by constant distraction and by layers upon layers of complexity, meditation has to be warped to be accepted by people who cannot tune out. And it has to be made complicated as complications aren't free. Simplicity is detachment, which is anathema to our worldly proclivities.

 

[lampofred]

So what are you supposed to focus on while you focus on not focusing

The goal is to not focus on anything. It should be like deep sleep but without actually losing consciousness. It's admitted that it's really hard to achieve a state like that, but a trick to getting there is to breath as little as possible. Gradually make your breathing slower and shallower until you're effortlessly barely breathing (once you master the process you literally stop breathing, glutamate is what induces ) and your mind will become relaxed and thoughtless while still being conscious. This is the kind of consciousness we had when we were toddlers, awake but thoughtless, before PUFA/estrogen/serotonin stimulated and caused the growth of the "ruminating" brain centers.

 

[Fractality]

Yes, conceptual thought drops off, leaving only the singular mind.

 

[Collden]

The goal is to not focus on anything. It should be like deep sleep but without actually losing consciousness. It's admitted that it's really hard to achieve a state like that, but a trick to getting there is to breath as little as possible. Gradually make your breathing slower and shallower until you're effortlessly barely breathing (once you master the process you literally stop breathing, glutamate is what induces ) and your mind will become relaxed and thoughtless while still being conscious. This is the kind of consciousness we had when we were toddlers, awake but thoughtless, before PUFA/estrogen/serotonin stimulated and caused the growth of the "ruminating" brain centers.

If your goal with meditation is to reach a state like deep sleep, why don't you just sleep more?

There are meditation techniques that were specifically developed to induce a state of relaxation but that doesn't mean it is the only goal of meditation. I'd say a far more important and useful aim of meditation is to develop what in modern psychology is called emotional regulation and awareness skills. In Vipassana meditation you aim to develop awareness and acceptance of your varied emotional states, it can lead to the insight that in most cases what actually causes you pain is not an emotion per say but your negative attitude towards the emotion, that an emotion causes you to react with a negative meta-emotion. When you start to learn to adopt an attitude of loving acceptance towards your varied emotional states, you can begin to transform your inner life. I'd say the state of deep peace that can develop with meditation practice is not a result of having a particular emotional or physiological state, but of developing unconditional acceptance towards your emotional states. It is an attitude rather than a state.

The ability to skilfully regulate ones emotions is basically one of the most important determinants of whether you will be a winner or loser in life, so for those who did not develop this skill well while growing up, meditation can be a very useful tool.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

I'd say meditation is pretty much impossible without Christ. Well, the whole creation is created through Him so.. haha. Everybody is too trapped in the works-mentality. Meditation is too easy. God wants to give, people don't want to receive the gift. I think meditation is existing without stress. I have no issues with thinking thoughts. Christ is the only thing that can balance our left brain & right brain, yin & yang, feminine & masculine, you know the drill.

 

[HealingBoy]

I'd say meditation is pretty much impossible without Christ. Well, the whole creation is created through Him so.. haha. Everybody is too trapped in the works-mentality. Meditation is too easy. God wants to give, people don't want to receive the gift. I think meditation is existing without stress. I have no issues with thinking thoughts. Christ is the only thing that can balance our left brain & right brain, yin & yang, feminine & masculine, you know the drill.

This is true in your system, and I respect that. Other systems exist though.

 

[mangoes]

@damngoodcoffee how does one even use “Christ” to balance themselves? Pray to him and ask?

 

[shine]

Just watch a cat if you want to learn about meditation/zen.

 

[ShotTrue]

read John Kabat-Zin's 'where you go, there you are'

 

[LiveWire]

Emptying the mind - Mindlessness - No Mind, is the way I was grounded in Meditation - the Zen way or ZaZen in other terms.
Nowadays it's all "mindfulness" or I suppose the opposite. New - comers into meditation are being short-changed, misdirected or misguided, going down the wrong path.
I heard an "expert" on the radio talk about this mindfulness stuff while quoting Philip Kaplow's "Three Pillars Of Zen". Somebody needs to put the brake lights on someway somewhere.

And you demand that everyone submits to your view and your method because....?

To be frank to me they both sound like utter bull$hit concepts for weak minded. But hey, I’m not judging, whatever rocks whoever’s boat.

 

[Regina]

Meditation is not about keeping the mind blank. It seems like almost everyone who talks about meditation has obviously not done much of it. The mind is tamed via training & detachment - it is transcended, not made "blank."

There are really only two aspects:
-- Samadhi, it has had many names, but a good translation is "single pointed focus." There are many topics one can choose to still the mind upon - the breath was recommended by the Buddha. However, most meditators do not know how to be single pointed on a topic for even one second. For example, they still the mind on the breath and the mind constantly moves with the sensations of its movement. One cannot break through this way.
-- Vipassana, akin to clarity and insight. Commonly misunderstood; read more here:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive...d/Meditations9/170330TheBuddha'sVipassana.pdf

For anyone interested, I recommend listening to the evening talks at dhammatalks.org - this guy has real experience and isn't deluded or deluding. Jump right in and start sitting. Remember, do not move one iota during your sits :)

Nice article.

 

[Waynish]

Samadhi is the opposite of willful focus. It is utter relaxation and thoughtlessness. Forcing yourself to sit still even when you are in pain, "detaching" yourself from your body and pain, which is so popular in meditation retreats, is the opposite of meditating.

Meditation should be pain-free, relaxing, pleasurable, even hedonistic once you've gone deep enough.

Your descriptions don't match with any of the descriptions of people who have been to the first Jhana, even... So I'm curious why your confidence is so high. Meditation should be pain-free, relaxing, pleasurable, and hedonistic? Sounds like one of the main issues with new age meditators who never break through. Seeking any of these is a sure-fire way to increase delusion through something that outwardly looks like meditation. Anyone who has sat still for more than 10 minutes, even, knows that meditation is not pain-free & relaxing. Have you ever sat still for 10 minutes straight without fidgeting and trying to get comfortable @lampofred?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Your descriptions don't match with any of the descriptions of people who have been to the first Jhana, even... So I'm curious why your confidence is so high. Meditation should be pain-free, relaxing, pleasurable, and hedonistic? Sounds like one of the main issues with new age meditators who never break through. Seeking any of these is a sure-fire way to increase delusion through something that outwardly looks like meditation. Anyone who has sat still for more than 10 minutes, even, knows that meditation is not pain-free & relaxing. Have you ever sat still for 10 minutes straight without fidgeting and trying to get comfortable @lampofred?

I've spent months in Samadhi, and it is pure bliss comparable to the point of orgasm. Except that it lasts all day long. There are many reasons to meditate, but 'just for fun' is the best one.

 

[Waynish]

If your goal with meditation is to reach a state like deep sleep, why don't you just sleep more?

Haha... Exactly.

I've spent months in Samadhi, and it is pure bliss comparable to the point of orgasm. Except that it lasts all day long. There are many reasons to meditate, but 'just for fun' is the best one.

Then you know what it takes to get there and how misleading that list of attributes would be to anyone with less than a couple years of experience, except in very special cases.

Months in samadhi or months in jhana - without breaks? Are you a Buddha?

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Haha... Exactly.


Then you know what it takes to get there and how misleading that list of attributes would be to anyone with less than a couple years of experience, except in very special cases.

Months in samadhi or months in jhana - without breaks? Are you a Buddha?

Nah, just a dude with a bit of knowledge. Teachers following Ramana Maharishi's direct path get you there pretty fast, and it is an intellectual yoga based on debate and understanding. I don't really meditate. You see the nature of reality and your experience and suddenly there is nothing but bliss. I did have breaks, as I had to eat, sleep etc. Anyone can do it, but it is just really boring and I did not come here to be blissed out, I came here to live. I'll look into Sahaja Samashi later on this year once I have the time, but even that seems like an escape.

It is however the ultimate rest. Even intense pain can not be felt in that state. In my opinion it is our natural state, and it is only our mind's contant activity that keeps us from it. Once you see past the illusory nature of experience you feel the bliss. I'm pretty sure everyone has at one point reached that for a few moments.