Meditation Is Being Warped & Perverted By New-Agers

[DaveFoster]

@damngoodcoffee how does one even use “Christ” to balance themselves? Pray to him and ask?

The Christian meditation refers explicitly to the Bible.

 

[lampofred]

Your descriptions don't match with any of the descriptions of people who have been to the first Jhana, even... So I'm curious why your confidence is so high. Meditation should be pain-free, relaxing, pleasurable, and hedonistic? Sounds like one of the main issues with new age meditators who never break through. Seeking any of these is a sure-fire way to increase delusion through something that outwardly looks like meditation. Anyone who has sat still for more than 10 minutes, even, knows that meditation is not pain-free & relaxing. Have you ever sat still for 10 minutes straight without fidgeting and trying to get comfortable @lampofred?

If your goal with meditation is to reach a state like deep sleep, why don't you just sleep more?

There are meditation techniques that were specifically developed to induce a state of relaxation but that doesn't mean it is the only goal of meditation. I'd say a far more important and useful aim of meditation is to develop what in modern psychology is called emotional regulation and awareness skills. In Vipassana meditation you aim to develop awareness and acceptance of your varied emotional states, it can lead to the insight that in most cases what actually causes you pain is not an emotion per say but your negative attitude towards the emotion, that an emotion causes you to react with a negative meta-emotion. When you start to learn to adopt an attitude of loving acceptance towards your varied emotional states, you can begin to transform your inner life. I'd say the state of deep peace that can develop with meditation practice is not a result of having a particular emotional or physiological state, but of developing unconditional acceptance towards your emotional states. It is an attitude rather than a state.

The ability to skilfully regulate ones emotions is basically one of the most important determinants of whether you will be a winner or loser in life, so for those who did not develop this skill well while growing up, meditation can be a very useful tool.

I'm not saying my understand of meditation is infallible, if it came across that way. I'm not some zen expert so this could be totally wrong, but the way I understand it, I think some people "meditate" without actually considering the effects of what they are doing. What you are talking about is dissociating yourself from pain, even if your body is in pain or your lifestyle is stressing you out, you are forcing your mind to ignore the pain signals. This is the opposite of eliminating your ego, you are actually strengthening your ego to fight against nature. This is highly serotonergic. Sleeping more doesn't work because you are not conscious during sleep, the goal of meditation as I understand it is to get a highly GABAergic (not serotonergic) state while still being conscious. & yes I have sat still more than 10 minutes, on good days I am able to be motionless without discomfort for 20-30 minutes but unfortunately those days have been pretty rare. Thoughtless meditation is pretty hard to do, but I have experienced it so I know it's possible.


Pleasure is a good thing, it is necessary for your brain to grow. The reason ancient Eastern religions tell you to stay away from sensual pleasure isn't that pleasure is "bad" it's that abstaining from large jolts of pleasure allows you to be more sensitive to smaller sources of pleasure. If you are having sex, then you will be desensitized and will not experience pleasure from meditation. But if you abstain from sex, you will be more sensitive to the pleasure of meditation and will be able to experience meditative bliss in the long-run. So you are abstaining from short-term pleasure (orgasm which only lasts for a few minutes) for the sake of long-term pleasure (meditation can give you hours and hours of pleasure), not because deprivation is a good thing.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

@damngoodcoffee how does one even use “Christ” to balance themselves? Pray to him and ask?

Try the Course in Miracles.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

@damngoodcoffee how does one even use “Christ” to balance themselves? Pray to him and ask?

You don't get to "use" Christ when you want to, for what you think you need to. Everything goes according to The Plan. Let me quote one of my favorite men of faith, Roger Waters:

And all that is now
And all that is gone
And all that's to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon

It's still good to pray and ask though.

 

[damngoodcoffee]

This is true in your system, and I respect that. Other systems exist though.

1 And I perceived on the right hand of Him Who is sitting on the throne a scroll, written in front and on the back, and sealed up with seven seals.
2 And I perceived a strong messenger heralding with a loud voice: "Who is worthy to open the scroll, and to loose its seals?"
3 And no one in heaven, nor yet on earth, nor yet underneath the earth, was able to open the scroll, neither to look at it.
4 And I lamented much that no one was found worthy to open the scroll, neither to look at it.
5 And one of the elders is saying to me, "Do not lament! Lo! He conquers! The Lion out of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, is to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals!"

 

[ShotTrue]

meanwhile no one will read the book I suggested *derp*

 

[shine]

1 And I perceived on the right hand of Him Who is sitting on the throne a scroll, written in front and on the back, and sealed up with seven seals.
2 And I perceived a strong messenger heralding with a loud voice: "Who is worthy to open the scroll, and to loose its seals?"
3 And no one in heaven, nor yet on earth, nor yet underneath the earth, was able to open the scroll, neither to look at it.
4 And I lamented much that no one was found worthy to open the scroll, neither to look at it.
5 And one of the elders is saying to me, "Do not lament! Lo! He conquers! The Lion out of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, is to open the scroll and to loose its seven seals!"

That sounds like something someone coming down from a DMT trip would say lol

 

[mangoes]

@damngoodcoffee @DaveFoster @Hugh Johnson
Thanks all for the answers

 

[aquaman]

Exactly, while meditating the goal is to keep your mind completely blank so that you can realign yourself with your unconscious instincts, not focus on breath or sensations or dissociating yourself from your body, but the way it's being taught in so many places is doing the exact opposite.

Meditation is actually an intense concentration on one thing, in order to still the mind abs break away from a thinking state. Can be a focus on breath, chakras, light (eg a candle flame), mantras, physical feeling, chanting, holy people etc.

 

[lampofred]

Meditation is actually an intense concentration on one thing, in order to still the mind abs break away from a thinking state. Can be a focus on breath, chakras, light (eg a candle flame), mantras, physical feeling, chanting, holy people etc.

That kind of meditation will help you concentrate better in day-to-day life but I think the kind of meditation that will weaken your ego and make you more intuitive is nondirective meditation, based on how they both affect your brain.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Meditation is actually an intense concentration on one thing, in order to still the mind abs break away from a thinking state. Can be a focus on breath, chakras, light (eg a candle flame), mantras, physical feeling, chanting, holy people etc.

That is one method, but just like mindfulness, it can end up being self abandonment and thus very damaging. Also focusing on concepts can be risky if you pick the wrong one. Guru yoga especially is rife with danger.

 

[morgan#1]

I’ve never ever heard anyone speak the truth so compellingly as Krishnamurti











What is it in the human mind that wants to follow? | J. Krishnamurti

Don’t follow . Then it’s not reality. He’s showing me how to look at all I need inside; and the inside flows to the outside. And the inside/thoughts are what let’s us down. The “ego” . Attachment, observing, look at my reactions. He’s definitely “old school”

 

[DMF]

I sometimes believe that gurus don't live in the real world, "the way" is to believe there's a halo around your head protecting one from life's ills - "living without conflict" -
life throws us continual dilemnas/conflicts we can't avoid.

 

[morgan#1]

I think “living without conflict” has partly to do with empty space inside, our acting with insight. Our inner mind not going all over the place.

I had a surreal day last week at the dentists, it was a dental school, didn’t know any of them. Kids wanting to be doctors, anxiety and everything. Anyway I observed this, taking myself out of the equation. And it was really cool. I didn’t react to their anxiety. I just was there, and I felt really good. It wasn’t like I was above the situation, but I was not reacting to their stress/emotions. I knew who I was, and this I think is very important, I wasn’t looking to anyone to to validate me. Because I knew exactly who I was. And I felt my mind being calm. All as a result of my non-reaction. They reacted to me differently, much more positive.
Hey don’t get me wrong, I’m lost in this world. But that day I felt was special.

I was not reacting to their emotional state. And I had a lot of energy, in being neutral. Possibly this happens to a lot of people, but I think that’s the way to live life.

 

[Regina]

I’ve never ever heard anyone speak the truth so compellingly as Krishnamurti











What is it in the human mind that wants to follow? | J. Krishnamurti

Don’t follow . Then it’s not reality. He’s showing me how to look at all I need inside; and the inside flows to the outside. And the inside/thoughts are what let’s us down. The “ego” . Attachment, observing, look at my reactions. He’s definitely “old school”

can't wait to check these out!

 

[morgan#1]

can't wait to check these out!

I tried to send you a couple that I’m really liking now, but the website developer has blocked sharing. Oh well, if you hear something in him that resonates, you’ll find him everywhere on internet. He was an amazing man.

 

[Regina]

I tried to send you a couple that I’m really liking now, but the website developer has blocked sharing. Oh well, if you hear something in him that resonates, you’ll find him everywhere on internet. He was an amazing man.

Yeah, I've listened to several over the last couple of years. As well as the Bohm conversations (since haidut mentioned him). Most definitely resonates. Just Krishnamurti's , "when the false is seen as false" has helped me quickly move on from learned helpless interactions.

 

[tygertgr]

In English, in a western country, "meditation" means atheists seeking spiritual comfort without faith. They find it easier to pretend Buddhism isn't actually a religion, because it's culturally alien enough they can just ignore anything about it they might not personally like. They could just pray the rosary, or whatever, but they find that yucky. Nevermind that Buddhism is about as chock full of doctrines anathema to the evangelical left as Catholicism.

 

[Waynish]

In English, in a western country, "meditation" means atheists seeking spiritual comfort without faith. They find it easier to pretend Buddhism isn't actually a religion, because it's culturally alien enough they can just ignore anything about it they might not personally like. They could just pray the rosary, or whatever, but they find that yucky. Nevermind that Buddhism is about as chock full of doctrines anathema to the evangelical left as Catholicism.

Totally! Also, people vibe with what they already are - and get triggered by the qualities of people who are beyond them. People's view of who they want to become is distorted by who they already are as well.

 

[DaveFoster]

People's view of who they want to become is distorted by who they already are as well.

Well said.