Medical Industrial Complex

[yerrag]

The same is true of the law enforcement industry. Even Reddit - that bastion of "consensus" - has recognized that fact and there a ton of posts there with comments from criminal attournies and even retired judges. Reddit verifies some of those people so we know it is not made up crap.
The SCOTUS has rules twice that cops are NOT required to protect you or anybody else, and most trials of cops killing unarmed citizens end in acquittals due to either jury/evidence tampering, or prosecutor knowingly going after a charge they know is unprovable. Prosecutors and cops are one and the same. Not even sure how can one expect prosecutors to be impartial. The only way to have some independence is to have the accused cops tried in a state/country far, far away from the place where the crime occurred.

I had not realized this is a state of affairs that applies to our society, with the United States being a prime example. I believe the root of it all is a legal system set up with the best intentions of protecting the public, in theory, but ends up being butchered and co-opted that, in practice, it serves everyone but the public. The public is well served by doing all it can to avoid any need for the services of any public or private agency. Stay healthy and safe so you don't have to go to the hospital. Practice defensive approaches, so that you make it hard to be victimized by crooks, small or big time - so you don't need to call on cops or any government agency. This really means we have to, as much as possible, take away the need for government to intrude into our lives. Once they get in, it would be hard to extricate them from our lives.

This is the downside of civilization. It comes with institutions set up with good intentions. Then comes the people that set up laws and regulations with good intentions. Then comes the lawyers who use the letter of the law to subvert these good intentions, to game the system for their profit. The profits made provide impetus to further destroy the integrity of these institutions. The system is then on autopilot to self-destruct. Instead of noble people heading these institutions, crooks and stooges of crooks come to head them. No decent person would stand the rigors of needing to prove how crooked he is in order to rise up the ranks. Glory hogs, carpetbaggers, thieves, and sycophants end up making decisions for society.

This is basically the story of the rise and fall of civilization, imho.

In the past, when the world wasn't so connected, a country gets renewal by the overthrow of a monarch, or of a dynasty. A good system of governance begets expansion into an empire. As the empire ages, a point is reached when gamesmanship becomes the norm, and from that point on, it is on a path of self-destruction. Hence, no empire ever survives. It is only a matter of time when its glory becomes a memory.

The United States has already reached its peak, and is on a slow death spiral. A cursory look at its institutions says it all. With little of no exception, institutions are failing. Universities not educating, hospitals not healing but aggravating sickness, vaccines not protecting but destroying, the central bank causing more crisis and hardship, and the legal system not protecting but harming the public.

I like the comfort of watching fantasy in the TV series "Blue Bloods." The police commissioner played by Tom Selleck is such an upstanding honorable public servant. It is like watching Popeye and Brutus in my childhood years. Good guy always wins!

 

[achillea]

As you say"yerrag, I believe the root of it all is a legal system set up with the best intentions of protecting the public, in theory, but ends up being butchered and co-opted that, in practice, it serves everyone but the public[/QUOTE]

Attorney Tells All: How the U.S. Courts Shield Big Pharma from Liability - The People's Chemist

 

[yerrag]

As you say"yerrag, I believe the root of it all is a legal system set up with the best intentions of protecting the public, in theory, but ends up being butchered and co-opted that, in practice, it serves everyone but the public

Attorney Tells All: How the U.S. Courts Shield Big Pharma from Liability - The People's Chemist[/QUOTE]

It seems the only thing we can do is to take things with a grain of salt. As a habit.

People have learned to not be so credulous in our relationships with people. For the most part, they're not fools. But when it comes to their faith in the (fake) science of mainstream medicine, they act no different from robots. Programmed to a T.

Trust little of pharma and hospitals. Be disagreeable if you have to. Don't be afraid to question. Sign that waiver if you have to.

 

[achillea]

Excerpt from Silent Weapons;

All science is merely a means to an end. The means is knowledge. The end is control. Beyond this remains only one issue: Who will be the beneficiary?

 

[Travis]

It's the television distorting reality; nearly all large organizations and corporations have a public relations branch which plants memes on the airwaves designed to bolster their public perception. Perhaps even television shows like House and ER had AMA funding? or something more subtle like an AMA 'script‐writing adviser' on board . . . or perhaps not; hard to tell. But what is certain is that media is top‐heavy with a pro‐government, pro‐AMA, pro‐institutional, and pro‐money bias. Since only the largest organizations can influence public perception on the national airwaves, these syndicated television channels tend to promote a reality suitable for large organizations.

People just need to get away from the tele (a.k.a. the moron box) and read books, create art, and perhaps even watch classic non‐political cinema (like Quentin Tarantino movies.) Any solid, verified information will make a person less prone to be scammed and lied to. The shrewd power‐egoists know this, so they remove all educational material from the television. When I was a teenager, you could watch real science and history on A&E and The History Channel; all that is gone now, being replaced by mind‐numbingly‐stupid reality shows and second‐rate 'debunking' programs like Mythbusters.

The same thing can be said about Google. There are ways to optimize searching to make certain that your page is first listed; the organizations with best public relations branches and capital will often have the greatest first‐page presence. When someone breaks ranks within the AMA, they are often publicly humiliated (a.k.a Wakefielded) through the media. I don't think these tactics are particularly sophisticated since I've seen them on a smaller, domestic scale; I think we all know people who shamelessly attempt to distort reality using the same dirty tactics you see on the mass media level.

 

[Dhair]

It's the television distorting reality; nearly all large organizations and corporations have a public relations branch which plants memes on the airwaves designed to bolster their public perception. Perhaps even television shows like House and ER had AMA funding? or something more subtle like an AMA 'script‐writing adviser' on board . . . or perhaps not; hard to tell. But what is certain is that media is top‐heavy with a pro‐government, pro‐AMA, pro‐institutional, and pro‐money bias. Since only the largest organizations can influence public perception on the national airwaves, these syndicated television channels tend to promote a reality suitable for large organizations.

People just need to get away from the tele (a.k.a. the moron box) and read books, create art, and perhaps even watch classic non‐political cinema (like Quentin Tarantino movies.) Any solid, verified information will make a person less prone to be scammed and lied to. The shrewd power‐egoists know this, so they remove all educational material from the television. When I was a teenager, you could watch real science and history on A&E and The History Channel; all that is gone now, being replaced by mind‐numbingly‐stupid reality shows and second‐rate 'debunking' programs like Mythbusters.

The same thing can be said about Google. There are ways to optimize searching to make certain that your page is first listed; the organizations with best public relations branches and capital will often have the greatest first‐page presence. When someone breaks ranks within the AMA, they are often publicly humiliated (a.k.a Wakefielded) through the media. I don't think these tactics are particularly sophisticated since I've seen them on a smaller, domestic scale; I think we all know people who shamelessly attempt to distort reality using the same dirty tactics you see on the mass media level.

Funny you mention Tarantino. He refuses to have product placement in any of his movies. He hates it so much that he makes up fake name brands.

 

[Travis]

Funny you mention Tarantino. He refuses to have product placement in any of his movies. He hates it so much that he makes up fake name brands.

The Red Apple cigarettes!

 

[yerrag]

The same thing can be said about Google. There are ways to optimize searching to make certain that your page is first listed; the organizations with best public relations branches and capital will often have the greatest first‐page presence.

The major search engines are so gamed. Most people don't realize this. When gullible people search the net these days, they get eaten alive by the propaganda machine.

When I tell somebody about an idea that isn't mainstream, I have to be sure I give them a link. I also preface that link with a message to them that their google searches are just going to lead them into the medical mainstream's echo chamber. Still, it's an exercise in futility as they end up playing it safe and going with the mainstream medical thought. It's hard to erase that sort of programming deeply embedded in their mindset. It is so hard for them to believe that doctors could be wrong, with the white coat and the appellation M.D. Talk about being in a cult.

Funny you mention Tarantino. He refuses to have product placement in any of his movies. He hates it so much that he makes up fake name brands.

Didn't know he is a purist. Good for him to not be so tainted.

 

[Travis]

The major search engines are so gamed. Most people don't realize this. When gullible people search the net these days, they get eaten alive by the propaganda machine.

When I tell somebody about an idea that isn't mainstream, I have to be sure I give them a link. I also preface that link with a message to them that their google searches are just going to lead them into the medical mainstream's echo chamber. Still, it's an exercise in futility as they end up playing it safe and going with the mainstream medical thought. It's hard to erase that sort of programming deeply embedded in their mindset. It is so hard for them to believe that doctors could be wrong, with the white coat and the appellation M.D. Talk about being in a cult.


Didn't know he is a purist. Good for him to not be so tainted.

I often forget how common those people are. It seems as all people who read science know about the frauds, but I suppose many people don't really do that. In fact, most people in the United States probably don't read about anything at all.

 

[achillea]

Jon Rapaport on the History of the Fluoride Coverup

Occasionally, I reprint this article. I wrote it some years ago, during research on toxic chemicals pervading the landscape. I used to send the piece to mainstream reporters, but I eventually gave that up as a bad bet.
They’re dedicated to fake news…and now they’re losing control over public consciousness. Losing badly. Independent media are in the ascendance, and rightly so.
In 1997, Joel Griffiths and Chris Bryson, two respected mainstream journalists, peered into an abyss. They found a story about fluorides that was so chilling it had to be told.
The Christian Science Monitor, who had assigned the story, never published it.

Their ensuing article, “Fluoride, Teeth, and the Atomic Bomb,” has been posted on a number of websites.
Author Griffiths told me that researchers who study the effects of fluorides by homing in on communities with fluoridated drinking water, versus communities with unfluoridated water, miss a major point: studying the water is not enough; toxic fluorides are everywhere—they are used throughout the pharmaceutical industry in the manufacture of drugs, and also in many other industries (e.g., aluminum, pesticide).
I want to go over some of the major points of the Griffiths-Bryson article.
Griffiths discovered hundreds of documents from the World War 2 era. These included papers from the Manhattan Project, launched to build the first A-bomb.
Griffiths/Bryson write: “Fluoride was the key chemical in atomic bomb production…millions of tons…were essential for the manufacture of bomb-grade uranium and plutonium for nuclear weapons throughout the Cold War.”
The documents reveal that fluoride was the most significant health hazard in the US A-bomb program, for workers and for communities around the manufacturing facilities.
Griffiths/Bryson: “Much of the original proof that fluoride is safe for humans in low doses was generated by A-bomb program scientists, who had been secretly ordered to provide ‘evidence useful in litigation’ [against persons who had been poisoned by fluoride and would sue for damages]… The first lawsuits against the US A-bomb program were not over radiation, but over fluoride damage, the [government] documents show.”
A-bomb scientists were told they had to do studies which would conclude that fluorides were safe.
The most wide-reaching study done was carried out in Newburgh, New York, between 1945 and 1956. This was a secret op called “Program F.” The researchers obtained blood and tissue samples from people who lived in Newburgh, through the good offices of the NY State Health Department.
Griffiths/Bryson found the original and secret version of this study. Comparing it to a different sanitized version, the reporters saw that evidence of adverse effects from fluorides had been suppressed by the US Atomic Energy Commission.
Other studies during the same period were conducted at the University of Rochester. Unwitting hospital patients were given fluorides to test out the results.
Flash forward. Enter Dr. Phyllis Mullenix (see also here), the head of toxicology at Forsyth Dental Center in Boston. In the 1990s, Mullenix did a series of animal studies which showed that, as Griffiths/Bryson write: “…fluoride was a powerful central nervous system (CNS) toxin…”
Mullenix applied for further grant monies from the National Institutes of Health. She was turned down. She was also told that fluorides do not have an effect on the CNS.
But Griffiths/Bryson uncovered a 1944 Manhattan Project memo which states: “Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather marked central nervous system effect…it seems most likely that the F [fluoride] component rather than the [uranium] is the causative factor.”
The 1944 memo was sent to the head of the Manhattan Project Medical Section, Colonel Stafford Warren. Warren was asked to give his okay to do animal studies on fluorides’ effects on the CNS. He immediately did give his approval.
But records of the results of this approved project are missing. Most likely classified.
Who was the man who made that 1944 proposal for a rush-program to study the CNS effects of fluorides? Dr. Harold Hodge, who worked at the Manhattan Project.
Who was brought in to advise Mullenix 50 years later at the Forsyth Dental Center in Boston, as she studied the CNS effects of fluorides? Dr. Harold Hodge.
Who never told Mullenix of his work on fluoride toxicity for the Manhattan Project? Dr. Harold Hodge.
Was Hodge brought in to look over Mullenix’s shoulder and report on her discoveries? It turns out that Hodge, back in the 1940s, had made suggestions to do effective PR promoting fluoride as a dental treatment. So his presence by Mullenix’s side, all those years later, was quite possibly as an agent assigned to keep track of her efforts.
Getting the idea here? Build an A-bomb. Forget the toxic fluoride consequences. Bury the fluoride studies. Twist the studies.
More on Hodge. In 1944, “a severe pollution incident” occurred in New Jersey, near the Du Pont plant in Deepwater where the company was trying to build the first A-bomb. A fluoride incident. Farmers’ peach and tomato crops were destroyed. Horses and cows became crippled. Some cows had to graze on their bellies. Tomato crops (normally sold to the Campbell Company for soups) were contaminated with fluorides.
The people of the Manhattan Project were terrified of lawsuits and ensuing revelations about the toxic nature of their work. A heads-up memo was written on the subject. Its author? Harold Hodge. Among other issues, he reported on the huge fluoride content in vegetables growing in the polluted area.
Also the high fluoride levels in human blood.
The farmers began to bring lawsuits. Big PR problem.
The lawsuits were settled quietly, for pittances.
Harold Hodge wrote another memo. Get this quote: “Would there be any use in making attempts to counteract the local fear of fluoride on the part of residents [near the A-bomb facility]…through lectures on F [fluoride] toxicology and perhaps the usefulness of F in tooth health?”
Griffiths/Bryson write: “Such lectures were indeed given, not only to New Jersey citizens but to the rest of the nation throughout the Cold War.”
This was a launching pad for fluorides as “successful dental treatments.”
Now you know why promoting toxic fluorides as a dental treatment was so important to government officials.
Footnote: In Stanley Kubrick’s 1964 film, Dr. Strangelove, Brigadier General Jack D. Ripper rails about the destruction fluorides are wreaking on the “pure blood of pure Americans.” Of course, General Ripper is fleshed out as a crazy right-wing fanatic. He’s ready and willing to start a nuclear war. How odd. Apparently unknown to the Strangelove script writers, fluorides were, in fact, very toxic and were an integral part of the program that created atomic bombs in the first place…
Delivered by The Daily Sheeple

 

[yerrag]

Jon Rapaport on the History of the Fluoride Coverup

Occasionally, I reprint this article. I wrote it some years ago, during research on toxic chemicals pervading the landscape. I used to send the piece to mainstream reporters, but I eventually gave that up as a bad bet.
They’re dedicated to fake news…and now they’re losing control over public consciousness. Losing badly. Independent media are in the ascendance, and rightly so.
In 1997, Joel Griffiths and Chris Bryson, two respected mainstream journalists, peered into an abyss. They found a story about fluorides that was so chilling it had to be told.
The Christian Science Monitor, who had assigned the story, never published it.

Their ensuing article, “Fluoride, Teeth, and the Atomic Bomb,” has been posted on a number of websites.
Author Griffiths told me that researchers who study the effects of fluorides by homing in on communities with fluoridated drinking water, versus communities with unfluoridated water, miss a major point: studying the water is not enough; toxic fluorides are everywhere—they are used throughout the pharmaceutical industry in the manufacture of drugs, and also in many other industries (e.g., aluminum, pesticide).
I want to go over some of the major points of the Griffiths-Bryson article.
Griffiths discovered hundreds of documents from the World War 2 era. These included papers from the Manhattan Project, launched to build the first A-bomb.
Griffiths/Bryson write: “Fluoride was the key chemical in atomic bomb production…millions of tons…were essential for the manufacture of bomb-grade uranium and plutonium for nuclear weapons throughout the Cold War.”
The documents reveal that fluoride was the most significant health hazard in the US A-bomb program, for workers and for communities around the manufacturing facilities.
Griffiths/Bryson: “Much of the original proof that fluoride is safe for humans in low doses was generated by A-bomb program scientists, who had been secretly ordered to provide ‘evidence useful in litigation’ [against persons who had been poisoned by fluoride and would sue for damages]… The first lawsuits against the US A-bomb program were not over radiation, but over fluoride damage, the [government] documents show.”
A-bomb scientists were told they had to do studies which would conclude that fluorides were safe.
The most wide-reaching study done was carried out in Newburgh, New York, between 1945 and 1956. This was a secret op called “Program F.” The researchers obtained blood and tissue samples from people who lived in Newburgh, through the good offices of the NY State Health Department.
Griffiths/Bryson found the original and secret version of this study. Comparing it to a different sanitized version, the reporters saw that evidence of adverse effects from fluorides had been suppressed by the US Atomic Energy Commission.
Other studies during the same period were conducted at the University of Rochester. Unwitting hospital patients were given fluorides to test out the results.
Flash forward. Enter Dr. Phyllis Mullenix (see also here), the head of toxicology at Forsyth Dental Center in Boston. In the 1990s, Mullenix did a series of animal studies which showed that, as Griffiths/Bryson write: “…fluoride was a powerful central nervous system (CNS) toxin…”
Mullenix applied for further grant monies from the National Institutes of Health. She was turned down. She was also told that fluorides do not have an effect on the CNS.
But Griffiths/Bryson uncovered a 1944 Manhattan Project memo which states: “Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather marked central nervous system effect…it seems most likely that the F [fluoride] component rather than the [uranium] is the causative factor.”
The 1944 memo was sent to the head of the Manhattan Project Medical Section, Colonel Stafford Warren. Warren was asked to give his okay to do animal studies on fluorides’ effects on the CNS. He immediately did give his approval.
But records of the results of this approved project are missing. Most likely classified.
Who was the man who made that 1944 proposal for a rush-program to study the CNS effects of fluorides? Dr. Harold Hodge, who worked at the Manhattan Project.
Who was brought in to advise Mullenix 50 years later at the Forsyth Dental Center in Boston, as she studied the CNS effects of fluorides? Dr. Harold Hodge.
Who never told Mullenix of his work on fluoride toxicity for the Manhattan Project? Dr. Harold Hodge.
Was Hodge brought in to look over Mullenix’s shoulder and report on her discoveries? It turns out that Hodge, back in the 1940s, had made suggestions to do effective PR promoting fluoride as a dental treatment. So his presence by Mullenix’s side, all those years later, was quite possibly as an agent assigned to keep track of her efforts.
Getting the idea here? Build an A-bomb. Forget the toxic fluoride consequences. Bury the fluoride studies. Twist the studies.
More on Hodge. In 1944, “a severe pollution incident” occurred in New Jersey, near the Du Pont plant in Deepwater where the company was trying to build the first A-bomb. A fluoride incident. Farmers’ peach and tomato crops were destroyed. Horses and cows became crippled. Some cows had to graze on their bellies. Tomato crops (normally sold to the Campbell Company for soups) were contaminated with fluorides.
The people of the Manhattan Project were terrified of lawsuits and ensuing revelations about the toxic nature of their work. A heads-up memo was written on the subject. Its author? Harold Hodge. Among other issues, he reported on the huge fluoride content in vegetables growing in the polluted area.
Also the high fluoride levels in human blood.
The farmers began to bring lawsuits. Big PR problem.
The lawsuits were settled quietly, for pittances.
Harold Hodge wrote another memo. Get this quote: “Would there be any use in making attempts to counteract the local fear of fluoride on the part of residents [near the A-bomb facility]…through lectures on F [fluoride] toxicology and perhaps the usefulness of F in tooth health?”
Griffiths/Bryson write: “Such lectures were indeed given, not only to New Jersey citizens but to the rest of the nation throughout the Cold War.”
This was a launching pad for fluorides as “successful dental treatments.”
Now you know why promoting toxic fluorides as a dental treatment was so important to government officials.
Footnote: In Stanley Kubrick’s 1964 film, Dr. Strangelove, Brigadier General Jack D. Ripper rails about the destruction fluorides are wreaking on the “pure blood of pure Americans.” Of course, General Ripper is fleshed out as a crazy right-wing fanatic. He’s ready and willing to start a nuclear war. How odd. Apparently unknown to the Strangelove script writers, fluorides were, in fact, very toxic and were an integral part of the program that created atomic bombs in the first place…
Delivered by The Daily Sheeple

How are fluorides part of the A-bomb program? Are they by-products of the production of A-bombs, or are they incorporated in the bomb itself?

 

[achillea]

“Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather marked central nervous system effect…it seems most likely that the F [fluoride] component rather than the [uranium] is the causative factor.”

In the bomb it appears

 

[Travis]

How are fluorides part of the A-bomb program? Are they by-products of the production of A-bombs, or are they incorporated in the bomb itself?

How would you separate ²³⁵U and ²³⁸U?

Uranium‐238 occurs in greater abundance than uranium‐235 yet only the latter is 'fissile.' The former more common isotope, uranium‐238, can be made fissile after absorbing a neutron—so it's not entirely worthless. So‐called 'weapons grade,' or highly enriched uranium requires over 85% of uranium‐235 (as commonly defined.)

Separating two isotopes is no easy task, especially two of them varying by only 1.26% (²³⁵⁄₂₃₈). Separating deuterium (²H₂) from hydrogen (¹H₂) is easy, as it weighs twice as much; there is a greater difference between the two. The refinement of uranium takes distillation/centrifugation after first converting it into a gas, or uranium hexafluoride (UF₆). When in the gas phase, the 1.26% difference in mass can be used to separate ²³⁵U from ²³⁸U.

This process requires a good deal of F₂.

 

[yerrag]

“Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather marked central nervous system effect…it seems most likely that the F [fluoride] component rather than the [uranium] is the causative factor.”

In the bomb it appears

How would you separate ²³⁵U and ²³⁸U?

Uranium‐238 occurs in greater abundance than uranium‐235 yet only the latter is 'fissile.' The former more common isotope, uranium‐238, can be made fissile after absorbing a neutron—so it's not entirely worthless. So‐called 'weapons grade,' or highly enriched uranium requires over 85% of uranium‐235 (as commonly defined.)

Separating two isotopes is no easy task, especially two of them varying by only 1.26% (²³⁵⁄₂₃₈). Separating deuterium (²H₂) from hydrogen (¹H₂) is easy, as it weighs twice as much; there is a greater difference between the two. The refinement of uranium takes distillation/centrifugation after first converting it into a gas, or uranium hexafluoride (UF₆). When in the gas phase, the 1.26% difference in mass can be used to separate ²³⁵U from ²³⁸U.

This process requires a good deal of F₂.

They legalize fluoride, and make marijuana illegal. Now that marijuana is being made iegal, perhaps it's also time to make fluoride illegal?

 

[Travis]

They legalize fluoride, and make marijuana illegal. Now that marijuana is being made illegal, perhaps it's also time to make fluoride illegal?

Yeah. The stuff is criminal: it ruins an otherwise perfectly good drink (green tea), can cause crippling skeletal fluorosis, and also allows warmongers to enrich uranium.

 

[achillea]

Demonizing cholesterol is essential for the sale of dangerous statins!
CARDIAC SURGEON/PROFESSOR EMERITUS TELLS THE TRUTH ABOUT THE CHOLESTEROL SCAM AND THE TOXIC EFFECTS OF STATINS.
http://www.jpands.org/vol20no2/miller.pdf

 

[Blossom]

Great post @achillea. I liked this quote from the link.
"Blaming cholesterol for atherosclerosis is like blaming firemen for the fire they have come to put out."

 

[Travis]

This article is a good adjunct to the one above:

Pauling, Linus. "Solution to the Puzzle of Human Cardiovascular Disease: Its Primary Cause is Ascorbate defiency, leading to the deposition of lipoprotein (a) and fibrinogen/fibrin in the vascular wall." J Orthomol Med (1991)​

In which Linus Pauling lays‐out the main arguments—yet there is much more evidence than that from Pauling & Rath , including autopsy evidence of reduced arterial ascrobate levels. George Willis has also done experiments using guinea pigs:

Willis, G. C. "The reversibility of atherosclerosis." Canadian Medical Association Journal (1957)
​

I think the evidence, taken as a whole, points towards ascorbic acid having very much to do with this. This is an obligatory vitamin for collagen synthesis, a lack of which necessarily weakens the arterial wall. Vitamin C can increase collagen synthesis eightfold in vitro.

 

[achillea]

Travis you can do all the vitamin C you want, I will drink my OJ and be happy

 

[Travis]

Travis you can do all the vitamin C you want, I will drink my OJ and be happy

I had never said that we needed to consume unnatural doses; but I think you'd agree the amount consumed by most Americans is unnatural, simply because cooking is unnatural. A person eating a natural diet, approximating what they'd be eating without technology, would have of course the natural intake. Since the enzyme which synthesizes ascorbate in most species—gulonolactone oxidase—had been evolutionarily abdicated in humans while ostensibly consuming such a diet, thousands of years ago, it could be argued that the concentrations of ascorbate found therein was deemed sufficient. Thus: I'll do the raw food, and you can do all the OJ you want.