Maximum Mental Performance Without Stress

[opethfeldt]

Do you think it's possible to achieve maximum mental performance without elevating stress hormones? The reason I ask is that substances that seem to improve my mental performance like nicotine, caffeine and tyrosine all seem to elevate cortisol. I do my best to make up for it at the end of the day by relaxing as much as possible but I'm sure that I'm doing damage to my body. Every time I figure out a way to make myself operate at a significantly higher level, I have to pay the price. I'm starting to think you can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Constatine]

You do not need stress hormones, nor should stress hormones be high, when your brain is operating efficiently. There is a state that I like to call the state of false intelligence. It is when one's brain is strained working on a problem and thus the individual believes himself to be intelligent and operating efficiently. However this is an illusion. It is the low stress hormone (specifically low serotonin high dopamine) state in which brain mitochondria may operate at peak performance. I find aspirin, B1 (a bioavailable form), and tea to be the perfect thinking combination.

 

[opethfeldt]

You do not need stress hormones, nor should stress hormones be high, when your brain is operating efficiently. There is a state that I like to call the state of false intelligence. It is when one's brain is strained working on a problem and thus the individual believes himself to be intelligent and operating efficiently. However this is an illusion. It is the low stress hormone (specifically low serotonin high dopamine) state in which brain mitochondria may operate at peak performance. I find aspirin, B1 (a bioavailable form), and tea to be the perfect thinking combination.

I disagree with that statement. I understand that low stress hormones are the basis of good health. I'd never argue otherwise. However, I've done pretty extensive research into brainwaves and all of the complex processing happens best when "beta" waves are produced. These waves tend to be faster than calming "alpha" waves but provide increased performance at the expense of health. It's well-known that dopamine is produced by these fast beta waves and we all know dopamine increases performance.

 

[Constatine]

I disagree with that statement. I understand that low stress hormones are the basis of good health. I'd never argue otherwise. However, I've done pretty extensive research into brainwaves and all of the complex processing happens best when "beta" waves are produced. These waves tend to be faster than calming "alpha" waves but provide increased performance at the expense of health. It's well-known that dopamine is produced by these fast beta waves and we all know dopamine increases performance.

Are you saying that beta waves are associated with increased stress hormones? I think intelligence and thought is a game of brain energy. Stress hormones can produce energy via destructive processes but they also inhibit brain mitochondria and create a very focused perspective. When the body achieves an excited state without the use of stress hormones it does so via mitochondria stimulating substances. This creates a childlike intelligence lacking intense focus but having great creative thought.

 

[opethfeldt]

Are you saying that beta waves are associated with increased stress hormones? I think intelligence and thought is a game of brain energy. Stress hormones can produce energy via destructive processes but they also inhibit brain mitochondria and create a very focused perspective. When the body achieves an excited state without the use of stress hormones it does so via mitochondria stimulating substances. This creates a childlike intelligence lacking intense focus but having great creative thought.

I definitely don't pretend to be an expert but everything I've read indicates beta waves are associated with stress and anxiety. Alpha waves, on the other hand, reduce stress. If you look around, you can find studies showing theanine increases alpha waves and it also decreases cortisol. I may have to try that stack you recommended. If it really does give you a "childlike" intelligence, I'm all for that. The intelligence I've achieved is definitely one of the "hyper-focused" variety.

 

[Constatine]

I definitely don't pretend to be an expert but everything I've read indicates beta waves are associated with stress and anxiety. Alpha waves, on the other hand, reduce stress. If you look around, you can find studies showing theanine increases alpha waves and it also decreases cortisol. I may have to try that stack you recommended. If it really does give you a "childlike" intelligence, I'm all for that. The intelligence I've achieved is definitely one of the "hyper-focused" variety.

I definitely need to read up on brain waves and its relationship with hormones. Significant stress greatly hinders brain function even in the moment (to conserve and prioritize energy) so I don't know what to think of that. My guess is that the wave length of the brain is in relation to basic excitation (inhibitory and excitatory neurotransmission like gaba and dopamine).

 

[tca300]

I speculate, that even though it probably couldn't be maintained, ( and shouldn't ) stress might increase mental performance as a life preserving response.
In my life there have been instances where I was present to others being in life threatening situations, and looking back at my reaction, Im not quite sure how I did the things I did, and Im speaking mentally not physically.

 

[opethfeldt]

I definitely need to read up on brain waves and its relationship with hormones. Significant stress greatly hinders brain function even in the moment (to conserve and prioritize energy) so I don't know what to think of that. My guess is that the wave length of the brain is in relation to basic excitation (inhibitory and excitatory neurotransmission like gaba and dopamine).

GABA "smoothes" the waves out. I believe dopamine increases the voltage of the brain, so it makes the amplitude of the waves larger. I read somewhere that a healthy focus is produced with a brain voltage of about 10 microvolts. I imagine I've achieved well above that. Lately, I've been so focused, I ignore external stimuli. I have to admit, it's pretty great for getting a task done. I've had low dopamine for a VERY long time and the combination of supplements that increase dopamine along with doing "no fap" has been pretty life-changing. I think about something that needs to be done and it just happens. No more procrastination or hesitation. It works in some negative ways, too. I've become a bit more impulsive. However, lowering stress hormones seems to help with that. Sorry to bring this thread off topic, but I thought you should get a context of where I'm at.

 

[Constatine]

I speculate, that even though it probably couldn't be maintained, ( and shouldn't ) stress might increase mental performance as a life preserving response.
In my life there have been instances where I was present to others being in life threatening situations, and looking back at my reaction, Im not quite sure how I did the things I did, and Im speaking mentally not physically.

I think stress invokes increases in focus and processing speed but dampers original thought. People who are stressed tend to rely on what they know and not critically think. I also think adrenaline fueled stress impacts the brain differently than learned helplessness like stresses such as studying.

 

[opethfeldt]

I think stress invokes increases in focus and processing speed but dampers original thought. People who are stressed tend to rely on what they know and not critically think. I also think adrenaline fueled stress impacts the brain differently than learned helplessness like stresses such as studying.

Hmm. I'm not sure about that. I find myself coming up with witty, original things to say without even trying these days. Dopamine seems to help creativity a lot. Perhaps I'm not stressed at all. I just feel so heavily stimulated that it "feels" stressful to me and that worries me. I don't wanna push and push and then crash and burn and end up back here trying to fix myself haha.

 

[jitsmonkey]

"nicotine, caffeine and tyrosine all seem to elevate cortisol"

this is true for all of them In The Absence Of Fuel
this is true for Tyrosine In The Absence Of Sunlight

Your description of your experience matches exactly with that of a person who is over stimmed and under fueled (or in the case of tyrosine not enough sunlight too)
Fuel up better and you'll not have this over stimmed experience.

 

[opethfeldt]

"nicotine, caffeine and tyrosine all seem to elevate cortisol"

this is true for all of them In The Absence Of Fuel
this is true for Tyrosine In The Absence Of Sunlight

I try my best to get sunlight whenever I take tyrosine but admittedly, I can't always manage it. Do you have a link to the study that claims that? I'd be very interested in reading about that. By the way, I'm taking acetyl-tyrosine, if it matters. As for the lack of fuel, I never take any supplements without meals. Learned that the hard way.

 

[jitsmonkey]

I try my best to get sunlight whenever I take tyrosine but admittedly, I can't always manage it. Do you have a link to the study that claims that? I'd be very interested in reading about that. By the way, I'm taking acetyl-tyrosine, if it matters. As for the lack of fuel, I never take any supplements without meals. Learned that the hard way.

You don't need a link. Do it. See for yourself.
Perceive. Think. Act.

 

[opethfeldt]

You don't need a link. Do it. See for yourself.
Perceive. Think. Act.

I was only wondering if you had it handy. Wasn't trying to be lazy or anything. At any rate, I haven't noticed any subjective difference in the way I feel taking NALT while indoors vs in direct sunlight.

 

[jitsmonkey]

I was only wondering if you had it handy. Wasn't trying to be lazy or anything. At any rate, I haven't noticed any subjective difference in the way I feel taking NALT while indoors vs in direct sunlight.

fuel matters regardless.

 

[lvysaur]

However this is an illusion. It is the low stress hormone (specifically low serotonin high dopamine) state in which brain mitochondria may operate at peak performance.

Mitochondria peak performance =/= actual peak performance

For any task with a deadline, there's always going to be a certain amount of stress response that optimizes performance.

 

[Constatine]

Hmm. I'm not sure about that. I find myself coming up with witty, original things to say without even trying these days. Dopamine seems to help creativity a lot. Perhaps I'm not stressed at all. I just feel so heavily stimulated that it "feels" stressful to me and that worries me. I don't wanna push and push and then crash and burn and end up back here trying to fix myself haha.

Dopamine is definitely not a stress hormone and stimulates the mitochondria.

 

[Constatine]

Mitochondria peak performance =/= actual peak performance

For any task with a deadline, there's always going to be a certain amount of stress response that optimizes performance.

I have not yet seen a study that can argue with that.

 

[opethfeldt]

I have not yet seen a study that can argue with that.

It seems consistent with my experience. I do think that if you were to stay at that level long-term, you'd see a decrease in performance because of the negative effects of stress on the brain.

 

[lvysaur]

I have not yet seen a study that can argue with that.

I'm just talking from intuition, but I would be extremely surprised if it weren't true. Whenever I do something that demands high quality work combined with quickness, I always get some amount of stress symptoms.

A slow-twitch conditioned person isn't going to win a sprinting race, because fermentation metabolism produces the greatest amount of energy within a limited timescale.