Masturbation And Testosterone

[tara]

This issue can be really confusing because there are guys who porn is not good for. Whose use of porn worsens their relationships and makes it hard to connect to other human beings. I think my porn use during some of my relationships made things worse, and prevented me from connected to the human that was in front of me. I will not watch porn now because it is most exploitative, shameful, and quietly violent. That isn't what I want my brain associating with orgasm and love.

This makes sense to me.
I would recommend avoiding porn if you want to have a good relationship with a romantic partner.

 

[Mike1234]

This is a good thread and I really connect with the abstaining from porn. Porn can seem to be the easy way out for sexual satisfaction, but it only puts real sexual pleasure and connecting with a partner further out of reach. The best part for me is usually the post orgasm bonding, smelling your partner, etc ( the other stuff is great too obviously ). That's something I would have never imagined myself saying just a few years ago but there it is.

 

[Brian]

Intriguing. Thanks. And the only accurate way to get an accurate copper/zinc ratio indication is a blood test?
No other obvious symptoms that the ratio is out of whack?

I don't think blood tests are very useful for determining copper and zinc status as they don't indicate if copper has accumulated into inappropriate places such as the testes, which will really mess up testosterone/semen production. Hair mineral analysis can potentially show you a rough ratio, but I go just based on symptoms. Low libido and poor protein digestion (from low stomach acid) are the easiest ones to notice. If you have either there's a strong chance that it is related to low zinc status and copper accumulation in undesirable places. In that case I think the thing to do is to lower copper intake and focus on getting more zinc and B6. Once libido is good then copper can be added back in at reasonable amounts.

Also, when you were cutting calcium and increasing beef, were you also eating a lot of gelatin?

Most cuts of beef actually have quite a bit of glycine, but yes I often use gelatin, glycine and taurine.

 

[Dr.Winston O'Boogie]

Really think the OP is looking in the wrong direction if he thinks his problem might be related to low testosterone because of porn or a way to increase testosterone might be via abstinence from porn.

I don't think the 'problem' with masturbation to porn is hormonally based.

 

[Brian]

Really think the OP is looking in the wrong direction if he thinks his problem might be related to low testosterone because of porn or a way to increase testosterone might be via abstinence from porn.

I don't think the 'problem' with porn is hormonally based.

He didn't even mention porn. He was discussing the possibility that frequent ejaculation might decrease testosterone and dopamine. It does seem to according to most studies, but I have observed the effect is extremely dependent on the state of one's metabolism, hormones, and mineral status.

My conclusion from my own experience is that when in excellent health the decrease is very short and is not even noticeable. While in poor health ejaculation makes you feel like your manliness was stolen from you forever. This might explain why some agriculture based cultures have had such strong taboos on masturbation or even frequent sex. Historically they all had very poor nutrition subsisting on gruel completely void of the zinc and retinol, while being high in copper. Long term vegan men are also commonly advocates of extreme semen retention for this reason.

Meanwhile, Pacific Island cultures encouraged daily sex. Their diets were rich in seafood, coconut, fruit, and sweet potatoes while getting lots of direct sunlight on their skin.

Everybody knows that a daily porn habit is a lame way to spend your life, but I think it is absolutely not true that porn can desensitize your neurotransmitters to the degree that "Your Brain On Porn" claims if you are in good health. What we've discovered here through Peat's work is that poor metabolism builds up serotonin, estrogen, and prolactin which completely dulls libido and motivation.

The potential problem with a daily porn habit in my opinion is that it can distract you from living your life and healthy habits such as going to bed early, being social, and eating regularly, which absolutely affect hormones and neurotransmitters. But ideal neurotransmitter health is first and foremost achieved through an ideal metabolism that converts tryptophan into niacin instead of serotonin. Whole day sunlight, excellent zinc status, and an easily digested diet with very low endotoxin production are some of the main factors in my experience.

My point is that it is not nearly enough to simply watch porn less to improve libido and motivation.

 

[Dr.Winston O'Boogie]

Really think the OP is looking in the wrong direction if he thinks his problem might be related to low testosterone because of porn or a way to increase testosterone might be via abstinence from porn.

I don't think the 'problem' with porn is hormonally based.

He didn't even mention porn. He was discussing the possibility that frequent ejaculation might decrease testosterone and dopamine. It does seem to according to most studies, but I have observed the effect is extremely dependent on the state of one's metabolism, hormones, and mineral status.

My conclusion from my own experience is that when in excellent health the decrease is very short and is not even noticeable. While in poor health ejaculation makes you feel like your manliness was stolen from you forever. This might explain why some agriculture based cultures have had such strong taboos on masturbation or even frequent sex. Historically they all had very poor nutrition subsisting on gruel completely void of the zinc and retinol, while being high in copper. Long term vegan men are also commonly advocates of extreme semen retention for this reason.

Meanwhile, Pacific Island cultures encouraged daily sex. Their diets were rich in seafood, coconut, fruit, and sweet potatoes while getting lots of direct sunlight on their skin.

Everybody knows that a daily porn habit is a lame way to spend your life, but I think it is absolutely not true that porn can desensitize your neurotransmitters to the degree that "Your Brain On Porn" claims if you are in good health. What we've discovered here through Peat's work is that poor metabolism builds up serotonin, estrogen, and prolactin which completely dulls libido and motivation.

The potential problem with a daily porn habit in my opinion is that it can distract you from living your life and healthy habits such as going to bed early, being social, and eating regularly, which absolutely affect hormones and neurotransmitters. But ideal neurotransmitter health is first and foremost achieved through an ideal metabolism that converts tryptophan into niacin instead of serotonin. Whole day sunlight, excellent zinc status, and an easily digested diet with very low endotoxin production are some of the main factors in my experience.

My point is that it is not nearly enough to simply watch porn less to improve libido and motivation.

Actually he mentioned porn quite a few times in his OP, even the website that I linked to earlier so I believe that he thinks there is an association to his 'problem' or his point and that he also thinks it is testosterone related (or else why would he mention testosterone?).

Neuro-transmitters? Now I think we are on the right path. How about brain desensitisation? The brain down regulating it's response to some of those neuro-transmitters?

 

[Brian]

Neuro-transmitters? Now I think we are on the right path. How about brain desensitisation? The brain down regulating it's response to some of those neuro-transmitters?

Some desensitization may be occurring (such as at the level of when you eat the same exact thing many times in a row--it still tastes good but not as much if you hadn't eaten it in a year), but in my experience it is far from the main mechanism at play. I think it may be possible that constant prolactin spiking (from ejaculating one or multiple times per day) in someone with low DHT/(Zinc status) creates a negative feedback loop that slows metabolism and so also DHT production, which in turn allows estrogen to build up. This would eventually lead to a decrease in thyroid hormone production when the liver is no longer able to detox the amount of estrogen.

Good DHT levels are required to keep estrogen and serotonin in check. Men who are able to increase the DHT through supplementation or increasing metabolism see an immediate increase in libido, motivation, and clearer thinking. DHT was the missing element. If the neuro-transmitters had become desensitized, it was mostly from an absence of DHT and other brain related hormones.

So I think it is especially important for male health to focus on DHT production and all the factors that help improve that.

I'm not an advocate for daily porn viewing and masturbation, I'm just saying that from my understanding a man's ability to produce and maintain high DHT levels is the main stabilizer of his other hormones and neurotransmitters(high dopamine/low serotonin). And this is accomplished most potently through diet and sunlight. Porn abstinence won't fix it to any high degree, but also wouldn't hurt it either.

 

[squanch]

I think (over)ejaculation is the real problem, not porn or masturbation. Ejaculating while having sex might negate some of the negative effects, it's still a stressor for the male body though.

In my opinion, the real danger of porn is that you will make masturbation and ejaculation a (often daily) habit. You will ejaculate on days when your libido is so low that you would not even be able to get an erection without the help of porn. Which is a pretty good sign that your body is in no place whatsoever to just waste your man juice for the heck of it.

I agree with pretty much everything brian said, including the zinc part.
Turkey liver (much lower in copper than beef liver) and oysters work really well to correct nutrient deficiencies caused by over-ejaculation in my experience though.

 

[Dr.Winston O'Boogie]

I still think desensitisation makes more sense to me, I guess at the end of the day it's what the OP thinks that's important. That yourbrainonporn website is full of 'success' stories and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their desensitisation theory. Not saying your points aren't relevant but if desensitisation is taking place then it would make the correct balance and hormones of neuro-transmitters effectively irrelevant because it would mean that the brain and the relevant parts of the body are not responding completely to the hormones and/or neuro-transmitters.

 

[Brian]

I still think desensitisation makes more sense to me, I guess at the end of the day it's what the OP thinks that's important. That yourbrainonporn website is full of 'success' stories and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their desensitisation theory. Not saying your points aren't relevant but if desensitisation is taking place then it would make the correct balance and hormones of neuro-transmitters effectively irrelevant because it would mean that the brain and the relevant parts of the body are not responding completely to the hormones and/or neuro-transmitters.

I think what you are seeing with those success stories is a very gradual increase in metabolism from a lack of daily prolactin spikes in their already high background prolactin. It takes them 3-6 months or more of zero ejaculation. Focusing on a pro-metabolic diet and lifestyle that depletes serotonin could get much better results in a month or less in most guys.

And for the record I completely agree that porn and masturbation are a distraction from real life and probably best kept rare for the average person.

 

[Zachs]

Really think the OP is looking in the wrong direction if he thinks his problem might be related to low testosterone because of porn or a way to increase testosterone might be via abstinence from porn.

I don't think the 'problem' with porn is hormonally based.

He didn't even mention porn. He was discussing the possibility that frequent ejaculation might decrease testosterone and dopamine. It does seem to according to most studies, but I have observed the effect is extremely dependent on the state of one's metabolism, hormones, and mineral status.

My conclusion from my own experience is that when in excellent health the decrease is very short and is not even noticeable. While in poor health ejaculation makes you feel like your manliness was stolen from you forever. This might explain why some agriculture based cultures have had such strong taboos on masturbation or even frequent sex. Historically they all had very poor nutrition subsisting on gruel completely void of the zinc and retinol, while being high in copper. Long term vegan men are also commonly advocates of extreme semen retention for this reason.

Meanwhile, Pacific Island cultures encouraged daily sex. Their diets were rich in seafood, coconut, fruit, and sweet potatoes while getting lots of direct sunlight on their skin.

Everybody knows that a daily porn habit is a lame way to spend your life, but I think it is absolutely not true that porn can desensitize your neurotransmitters to the degree that "Your Brain On Porn" claims if you are in good health. What we've discovered here through Peat's work is that poor metabolism builds up serotonin, estrogen, and prolactin which completely dulls libido and motivation.

The potential problem with a daily porn habit in my opinion is that it can distract you from living your life and healthy habits such as going to bed early, being social, and eating regularly, which absolutely affect hormones and neurotransmitters. But ideal neurotransmitter health is first and foremost achieved through an ideal metabolism that converts tryptophan into niacin instead of serotonin. Whole day sunlight, excellent zinc status, and an easily digested diet with very low endotoxin production are some of the main factors in my experience.

My point is that it is not nearly enough to simply watch porn less to improve libido and motivation.

Now this is much more in line with what I believe to be true although I'm still of the opinion that ejaculating doesn't have to be a net negative on the body is one is fueled properly and hormones are optimal, I think the dopamine release and test boost could ultimately be a net positive. That said, I agree with the above poster who said that daily ejaculating (and porn viewing) will ultimately be a negative on health if libido is low and it takes effort to get aroused. Again this comes down to being in a healthy state to begin with and not forcing things but instead listening to the body. I recall an article on the world's oldest father who stated that he had sex multiple times a day every day and that and his diet accounted for his youthfulness. I believe this can be the case for most people but genes my play a role as well. Another good point about islander tribes vs agricultural tribes and other historical accounts of sexual frequency. There are many tribes that practice sex daily with multiple partners. It seems religion can come into play with some religions equating masterbation to sin and other religions sex, orgys, multiple partners, etc to healthy practice.

Lastly porn is probably a net negative, it's unnatural and definitely desensitizing, making real life encounters less intense and definitely adds a whole new dimension of inadequacy that was absent less than a generation ago. I feel bad for kids growing up having watched porn since puberty with all those unrealistic expectations. That and the amount of estrogen kids are getting exposed to will lead to some pretty unsatisfying sex.

 

[Dr.Winston O'Boogie]

I still think desensitisation makes more sense to me, I guess at the end of the day it's what the OP thinks that's important. That yourbrainonporn website is full of 'success' stories and I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss their desensitisation theory. Not saying your points aren't relevant but if desensitisation is taking place then it would make the correct balance and hormones of neuro-transmitters effectively irrelevant because it would mean that the brain and the relevant parts of the body are not responding completely to the hormones and/or neuro-transmitters.

I think what you are seeing with those success stories is a very gradual increase in metabolism from a lack of daily prolactin spikes in their already high background prolactin. It takes them 3-6 months or more of zero ejaculation. Focusing on a pro-metabolic diet and lifestyle that depletes serotonin could get much better results in a month or less in most guys.

And for the record I completely agree that porn and masturbation are a distraction from real life and probably best kept rare for the average person.

I know first hand what 'Peating' can do for your libido, my first post here referred to that affect which I also attributed to an increase in metabolism.

However I'm still with them on the desensitisation issue but I agree that dealing with their metabolism and balancing hormones and neuro-transmitters can only help (can't remember much on there directly relating to metabolism, maybe they'd appreciate a heads up?). If your brain is no longer properly sensitised to those corrected hormones and NT's then it's still a case of no worky I'm afraid!

There are biological solutions suggested on that website to keep the scientifically minded happy (particularly relating to dopamine), it's not just about abstinence.

We'll have to agree to differ on the importance or otherwise of desensitisation. 'Their' argument is well established on the website for anybody interested.

 

[Tarmander]

I want to remind everyone discussing porn that it is not some homogenized thing. Men have probably been looking at pictures of naked women for as long as they could draw pictures. Porn today though is more an indication of deep seeded taboos, shame, and guilt around sexual desire and the body. When you are watching some girl cry as she gets a bat shoved up her butt...can you really think that is good for your psychology, even if you are turned on?

Most of the confusion probably comes because it is dose dependent, like benadryl. A small amount may be invigorating, relaxing, and healthy. The guys on yourbrainonporn probably have a context that would be on the overuse side for their physiology.

 

[Zachs]

Not everyone needs to watch porn that shames them.

 

[Dr.Winston O'Boogie]

Not everyone needs to watch porn that shames them.

So true, I think it's a natural thing to do and can and usually is totally harmless. Unfortunately today's easy availability means that some will get lost on the way, maybe getting desensitised and needing more and more or more extreme types of porn in order to reach the same level of stimulation that they once had with more 'normal' exposure.

 

[Zachs]

Not everyone needs to watch porn that shames them.

So true, I think it's a natural thing to do and can and usually is totally harmless. Unfortunately today's easy availability means that some will get lost on the way, maybe getting desensitised and needing more and more or more extreme types of porn in order to reach the same level of stimulation that they once had with more 'normal' exposure.

I wonder how much that has to do with being estrogen dominant or something else. Personally I find even professional porn to be a turn off and harder stuff to being nauseating.

 

[Dr.Winston O'Boogie]

Not everyone needs to watch porn that shames them.

So true, I think it's a natural thing to do and can and usually is totally harmless. Unfortunately today's easy availability means that some will get lost on the way, maybe getting desensitised and needing more and more or more extreme types of porn in order to reach the same level of stimulation that they once had with more 'normal' exposure.

I wonder how much that has to do with being estrogen dominant or something else. Personally I find even professional porn to be a turn off and harder stuff to being nauseating.

A lot of teenagers reporting problems from masturbation to porn on that website with IMO more chance of being overly tempted by exposure to the darker sides of the Internet than estrogen dominance. I just can't see why so many youngsters should be experiencing ED that they themselves attribute to regular porn use. They can't all be drug addicts and it does strike me as unusual at that age.

 

[Zachs]

I think that estrogen dominance is a very real problem effecting all walks of life. So many xeno estrogen in our food and water, skin care, etc. So many petroleum based products and even infants are exposed to and even in the womb. There are pockets of populations around the world where boys being born with incomplete sex organs, and super late puberty. You gotta think the the average testosterone level among teens is slowly dropping. Women too are being effected but they are hitting puberty earlier. It's also effecting other species. Pretty scary to think what might be in 20-30 more years if trends don't change and people don't become aware of what they are putting on and in their bodies. High pufa too could be a factor.

 

[squanch]

Unfortunately today's easy availability means that some will get lost on the way, maybe getting desensitised and needing more and more or more extreme types of porn in order to reach the same level of stimulation that they once had with more 'normal' exposure.

 

[Dr.Winston O'Boogie]

Thank you Skally. I'm glad you understand the theory behind densensitisation.