Masturbation And Testosterone

[DaveFoster]

I am a huge fan of NoFap, which is a community of individuals who believe that masturbating to the point of orgasm with porn tends to limit the psychological capabilities in men, as well as having some profound physiological effects that most would warrant as unwanted.

As a young man who weight trains, I am very interested in anything related to increased testosterone production, and it just so happens that there exists evidence to support abstinence from orgasm in this regard.

7-Day Study

A research on the relationship between ejaculation and serum testosterone level in men.The purpose of this study is to gain understanding of the relationship between ejaculation and serum testosterone level in men. The serum testosterone concentrations of 28 volunteers were investigated daily during abstinence periods after ejaculation for two phases. The authors found that the fluctuations of testosterone levels from the 2nd to 5th day of abstinence were minimal. On the 7th day of abstinence, however, a clear peak of serum testosterone appeared, reaching 145.7% of the baseline ( P < 0.01). No regular fluctuation was observed following continuous abstinence after the peak. Ejaculation is the precondition and beginning of the special periodic serum testosterone level variations, which would not occur without ejaculation. The results showed that ejaculation-caused variations were characterized by a peak on the 7th day of abstinence; and that the effective time of an ejaculation is 7 days minimum. These data are the first to document the phenomenon of the periodic change in serum testosterone level; the correlation between ejaculation and periodic change in the serum testosterone level, and the pattern and characteristics of the periodic change.

3-Week Study

Endocrine response to masturbation-induced orgasm in healthy men following a 3-week sexual abstinence.This current study examined the effect of a 3-week period of sexual abstinence on the neuroendocrine response to masturbation-induced orgasm. Hormonal and cardiovascular parameters were examined in ten healthy adult men during sexual arousal and masturbation-induced orgasm. Blood was drawn continuously and cardiovascular parameters were constantly monitored. This procedure was conducted for each participant twice, both before and after a 3-week period of sexual abstinence. Plasma was subsequently analysed for concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline, cortisol, prolactin, luteinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations. Orgasm increased blood pressure, heart rate, plasma catecholamines and prolactin. These effects were observed both before and after sexual abstinence. In contrast, although plasma testosterone was unaltered by orgasm, higher testosterone concentrations were observed following the period of abstinence. These data demonstrate that acute abstinence [from sexual activity, including masturbation and orgasm] does not change the neuroendocrine response to orgasm but does produce elevated levels of testosterone in males.

Due to orgasm's pronounced effect of increasing prolactin levels in the brain, the testosterone increase from abstinence likely stems from increased levels of dopamine, which correlates with increased levels of testosterone production. Upregulated dopamine in the hypothalamus suppresses prolactin by increasing the levels of hypothalamic prolactin inhibitory factor (PIF).

 

[cantstoppeating]

This works and is a solution for people who aren't aware of Peating or otherwise maintaining a high/youthful metabolism.

The increasing reduced capacity to bounce back after an orgasm is a feature of ageing; ideally we want to keep prolactin levels low and testosterone at ideal levels without having to resort to measures like abstinence from orgasms.

 

[Zachs]

I agree with the above. A sure sign of poor metabolism is the feeling of sleepiness after orgasm. Btw, I have seen a study that showed a huge drop in testosterone around day 9 of abstinence. Not sure if I can find it again it was a few years ago.

Personally I feel the nofap community in general is full of former degenerates and porn addicts who use the nofap community to feel superior over people who are able to masterbate and watch porn without it spiraling their lives out of control.

Anacdotally, when I fap or have sex daily, my general feeling of wellbeing, strength and energy are at their highest.

 

[Brian]

For guys that are getting hormonal and neurotransmitter imbalance from frequent ejaculation I think the issue is zinc deficiency, which is actually quite common. Some guys have ejaculated almost every single day or more since the beginning of puberty while eating a low zinc diet and possibly poor absorption caused by gluten and phytic acid. I think this accounts for the low dopamine/metabolism symptoms of the NoFap movement demographic.

The way out of that mess is to focus mostly on zinc foods and less on copper, so that pretty much leaves beef as the best option. Calcium should probably be decreased somewhat to maximize zinc absorption. While of course getting lots of calories (not going too low carb or calorie).

 

[oxidation_is_normal]

Lol... Feeling relaxed or sleepy after orgasm does not mean your metabolism is broken! I think the optimal trade-off is only letting yourself orgasm with a girl. That's pretty synergistic with various principles and motivations. NoFap includes masturbation without porn too, but to a lesser degree, btw. Regardless, do not let yourself feel guilty about your masturbatory actions - enjoy it!

 

[Sheik]

It's so hard to find truth about these issues. It seems like everyone wants to think they know it all. The only thing I'm convinced of is that NoFap can be very helpful in many ways. That and the fact that people have a very strong incentive to rationalize their habits.

I'm not convinced that masturbating is healthy, nor that it's always unhealthy. I'm not convinced that porn use is harmless, even for those whose lives are not "spiraling out of control". I'm not even convinced that sex is entirely harmless. Every orgasm for me seems to be a blow to my endocrine system that takes days to recover from.

 

[Zachs]

. I'm not even convinced that sex is entirely harmless. Every orgasm for me seems to be a blow to my endocrine system that takes days to recover from.

Exactly, it's not the act of orgasm, it's your poor health. I'm not trying to be harsh here but if the above is the case them you probably need to keep working. Orgasming should be energizing, sex should be even more so.

 

[Sheik]

. I'm not even convinced that sex is entirely harmless. Every orgasm for me seems to be a blow to my endocrine system that takes days to recover from.

Exactly, it's not the act of orgasm, it's your poor health. I'm not trying to be harsh here but if the above is the case them you probably need to keep working. Orgasming should be energizing, sex should be even more so.

That seems to me a remote possibility. It also seems possible to me that orgasm is a manageable blow to a healthy person's physiology. Or maybe not orgasm itself, but ejaculation.

It's a complicated issue, partly because sex/masturbation can be used as an escape from oneself, like a drug. And there are degrees of mental health.

Don't worry, that wasn't harsh. I appreciate the discussion.

Edit: To clarify, I agree that my poor health has got my sex life messed up. I'm just questioning the idea that orgasm is "energizing".

 

[Zachs]

Well I can only speak from personal experience but I have found that the better health I have, the more energized I get from any sort of orgasm. I assume it's from a boost in youth hormones so I definitely don't think it's a definite net negative, the act of ejaculating. I also feel very stagnant, energy wise if I havnt in a few days. I can't say for sure what it's like withholding for a long period of time because it's never been longer then maybe a week.

I have always looked to the past for references of what makes a healthful person, mainly a healthy male since I am one. Besides things like good muscle size and strength, good vitality, etc, a robust sexual appetite is a good sign that hormones and metabolism is in balance.

 

[Stuart]

. I'm not even convinced that sex is entirely harmless. Every orgasm for me seems to be a blow to my endocrine system that takes days to recover from.

Exactly, it's not the act of orgasm, it's your poor health. I'm not trying to be harsh here but if the above is the case them you probably need to keep working. Orgasming should be energizing, sex should be even more so.

The zinc connection Brian mentioned seems to be so critical. Whatever energy expenditure mechanism is involved - lifting something, walking, breathing, producing the enzymes needed to digest food or the food (mucus) your colonic bacteria eat, even just thinking... - it all requires the fuel so used up to be replenished.

Since ejaculate contains a lot of zinc, and the high phytate modern diet makes most people zinc deficient as soon as they start eating grains/seeds/nuts etc. the more they ejaculate, the more likely they are to make the zinc deficiency even worse. The 'depleting vital energy' notion of having a lot of orgasms without seeing it as a chemical process that needs to be supplied with the required substances ( minerals included) just seems like moralistic nonsense.
Eat your oysters people.

 

[Zachs]

I remember going to some Islands off of Florida and seeing massive oyster shell mounds from the native people's. Apparently they ate pounds of oysters daily. I doubt there was a no fap crew around there.

 

[Brian]

Eat your oysters people.

I'm not so sure that oysters are the best tool for the job when someone has a significant zinc deficiency. The copper content is also quite high in oysters. I was only able to make progress on correcting my zinc deficiency when I cut out high copper foods such as liver and oysters, while also lowering my calcium intake. Beef is what worked for me.

Although I'm sure once someone is in a better copper/zinc balance that oysters would be an ideal food for obtaining both in a good ratio.

 

[Nicholas]

. I'm not even convinced that sex is entirely harmless. Every orgasm for me seems to be a blow to my endocrine system that takes days to recover from.

Exactly, it's not the act of orgasm, it's your poor health. I'm not trying to be harsh here but if the above is the case them you probably need to keep working. Orgasming should be energizing, sex should be even more so.

That seems to me a remote possibility. It also seems possible to me that orgasm is a manageable blow to a healthy person's physiology. Or maybe not orgasm itself, but ejaculation.

It's a complicated issue, partly because sex/masturbation can be used as an escape from oneself, like a drug. And there are degrees of mental health.

Don't worry, that wasn't harsh. I appreciate the discussion.

Edit: To clarify, I agree that my poor health has got my sex life messed up. I'm just questioning the idea that orgasm is "energizing".

i can relate to your thoughts here, Sheik - that it's a complicated issue. addictive sexuality, i believe, is WORLDS different than normal sexuality.......and i also recognize that the addictive parts of anything can be both mental props as well as very powerful physiological props (i.e. self-medication). addiction seems to re-wire the body in many ways....the nofap community are, from what i have gathered, mostly addicts seeking to leave it behind - they are not a community of people who have their normal wiring. thinking out loud. i'm not sure it's really even a metabolism problem that addicts/ex-addicts feel/experience things differently.

 

[Sheik]

Well I can only speak from personal experience but I have found that the better health I have, the more energized I get from any sort of orgasm. I assume it's from a boost in youth hormones so I definitely don't think it's a definite net negative, the act of ejaculating. I also feel very stagnant, energy wise if I havnt in a few days. I can't say for sure what it's like withholding for a long period of time because it's never been longer then maybe a week.

I have always looked to the past for references of what makes a healthful person, mainly a healthy male since I am one. Besides things like good muscle size and strength, good vitality, etc, a robust sexual appetite is a good sign that hormones and metabolism is in balance.

You know, I suddenly remembered that a few years ago I heard a guy say that orgasm was energizing for him and I kind of assumed he was full of crap. But maybe there is something to it.

I wonder if it relates to the psychology of dominance. I've heard about studies of chimpanzees that found that in conflict situations, the monkey who wins gets a boost of testosterone, and the monkey who loses gets a drop in T.

Theory: it's natural for a man to get a boost of T when he's sexually "conquered" someone.

Confession: I have a history of feeling beneath people, to an insane degree. To the point where even when someone would try to nudge me into the dominant role, I would strongly resist it. So with such a psychology, I might resist ever feeling dominant in relation to a woman I had sex with. A similar mental pattern could likely play out during masturbation. Or just a constant resistance to feeling 'powerful'.

 

[natedawggh]

Due to orgasm's pronounced effect of increasing prolactin levels in the brain, the testosterone increase from abstinence likely stems from increased levels of dopamine, which correlates with increased levels of testosterone production. Upregulated dopamine in the hypothalamus suppresses prolactin by increasing the levels of hypothalamic prolactin inhibitory factor (PIF).

This study reaches exactly the opposite conclusion of the ones posted. It shows that not only is testosterone increased after orgasm but also DHT and other steroids.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/135817

If you go to the gym you are also activating the exact same hormone response, because masturbation is essentially just a physical exercise, but with a more pleasurable climax. You can also get a much bigger increase in testosterone from taking a zinc supplement. It's true that an increase in testosterone is healthy, but increasing testosterone also increases sex drive, so you're basically engineering a catch 22 if you're gonna get high T, good luck restraining nature, and I would argue that if doing NoFap comes easily to you, you probably do have a low level of Testosterone and you should adjust your diet accordingly (and refrain from alcohol! The number one destroyer of Testosterone)

There are also many situations in which the body produces more testosterone in response to stress. For instance, exposing the body to cold increases testosterone production, but if you were to be exposed too long you would die of hypothermia. Even short bouts of cold lower metabolism, so it's not a healthy way to increase T and neither is abstaining from sexual gratification. That's why you feel agitated and restless when it's been a while.

 

[Tarmander]

I wanted to chime in here as I have some experience in this area.

One thing I always noticed with girl friends was that after orgasm with them, the next day, I never really liked them all that much. I was in a much worse mood. Sometimes this would last for days or weeks. I noticed this all through high school and college.

A few years ago, in an effort to get to the bottom of this, I was reading yourbrainonporn and the other site about karezza and abstaining from orgasm. The Romans had a saying; "The cure for love is orgasm." So I figured, why not try no orgasm or porn for awhile and see how it goes? I had just broken up with a girl friend so it seemed like perfect timing.

It was difficult for the first few weeks, but then something really amazing started happening. I felt a surge of strength and energy that to this day I have not experienced since then. I was coming off having constant orgasms since I was around 12 years old. That is like 14 years of sometimes daily orgasms...14 years! I felt strength, I had more muscle definition, and I had hope for the future. I felt so strong, I considered becoming an astronaut...just like out of the blue I was going to go to space. It was crazy how strong I felt.

This feeling waxed and waned for a few months until I settled into being basically celibate. This lasted for 2 years. That's right, in 2 years, I had like one orgasm while I was awake (I had plenty while I was asleep).

What I noticed was that after the initial honeymoon wore off, I was pretty normal. My body adapted, I lost the muscle definition, and instead of letting off steam during the day to porn, my body would just take care of it at night while asleep.

However as time went on, my behavior started preserving the celibacy. It was like, I could not look at girls because the sexual desires were always right under the surface. Although I did not realize it at the time, I was actually doing things that lowered my metabolism to lower libido and keep the nofap going on.

This issue can be really confusing because there are guys who porn is not good for. Whose use of porn worsens their relationships and makes it hard to connect to other human beings. I think my porn use during some of my relationships made things worse, and prevented me from connected to the human that was in front of me. I will not watch porn now because it is most exploitative, shameful, and quietly violent. That isn't what I want my brain associating with orgasm and love.

On the other hand you cannot just write orgasm and fapping off because I found that my activities eventually were detrimental to my health to keep that going. When I started doing Peaty things, it was impossible and I had to jump back on the fap band wagon.

I will say though that my couple years of celibacy was exactly what the doctor ordered. If you never have abstained, it can be a helluva ride for awhile.

 

[Stuart]

Eat your oysters people.

I'm not so sure that oysters are the best tool for the job when someone has a significant zinc deficiency. The copper content is also quite high in oysters. I was only able to make progress on correcting my zinc deficiency when I cut out high copper foods such as liver and oysters, while also lowering my calcium intake. Beef is what worked for me.

Although I'm sure once someone is in a better copper/zinc balance that oysters would be an ideal food for obtaining both in a good ratio.

Intriguing. Thanks. And the only accurate way to get an accurate copper/zinc ratio indication is a blood test?
No other obvious symptoms that the ratio is out of whack?
Also, when you were cutting calcium and increasing beef, were you also eating a lot of gelatin?

 

[Sheik]

Oysters never seemed to make any difference for me. I'd be down to try a zinc supplement if there's a good one.

 

[DaveFoster]

Due to orgasm's pronounced effect of increasing prolactin levels in the brain, the testosterone increase from abstinence likely stems from increased levels of dopamine, which correlates with increased levels of testosterone production. Upregulated dopamine in the hypothalamus suppresses prolactin by increasing the levels of hypothalamic prolactin inhibitory factor (PIF).

This study reaches exactly the opposite conclusion of the ones posted. It shows that not only is testosterone increased after orgasm but also DHT and other steroids.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/135817

If you go to the gym you are also activating the exact same hormone response, because masturbation is essentially just a physical exercise, but with a more pleasurable climax. You can also get a much bigger increase in testosterone from taking a zinc supplement. It's true that an increase in testosterone is healthy, but increasing testosterone also increases sex drive, so you're basically engineering a catch 22 if you're gonna get high T, good luck restraining nature, and I would argue that if doing NoFap comes easily to you, you probably do have a low level of Testosterone and you should adjust your diet accordingly (and refrain from alcohol! The number one destroyer of Testosterone)

There are also many situations in which the body produces more testosterone in response to stress. For instance, exposing the body to cold increases testosterone production, but if you were to be exposed too long you would die of hypothermia. Even short bouts of cold lower metabolism, so it's not a healthy way to increase T and neither is abstaining from sexual gratification. That's why you feel agitated and restless when it's been a while.

I'm not sure what to make of conflicting studies, as someone is obviously wrong here. There may be some metabolic differences between the study participants in either study, due to the 20-year difference, but this may be a stretch. Regardless, you make a good point about the response to stress provoking the release of more testosterone. Cold showers, weight training, short-term sexual abstinence all increase T levels. However, cold showers and weight training do not make one feel lazy and unwilling to accomplish important tasks. Again, maybe some are more sensitive to the effects of masturbation, and good nutrition definitely remains an important factor.

I wanted to chime in here as I have some experience in this area.

One thing I always noticed with girl friends was that after orgasm with them, the next day, I never really liked them all that much. I was in a much worse mood. Sometimes this would last for days or weeks. I noticed this all through high school and college.

A few years ago, in an effort to get to the bottom of this, I was reading yourbrainonporn and the other site about karezza and abstaining from orgasm. The Romans had a saying; "The cure for love is orgasm." So I figured, why not try no orgasm or porn for awhile and see how it goes? I had just broken up with a girl friend so it seemed like perfect timing.

It was difficult for the first few weeks, but then something really amazing started happening. I felt a surge of strength and energy that to this day I have not experienced since then. I was coming off having constant orgasms since I was around 12 years old. That is like 14 years of sometimes daily orgasms...14 years! I felt strength, I had more muscle definition, and I had hope for the future. I felt so strong, I considered becoming an astronaut...just like out of the blue I was going to go to space. It was crazy how strong I felt.

This feeling waxed and waned for a few months until I settled into being basically celibate. This lasted for 2 years. That's right, in 2 years, I had like one orgasm while I was awake (I had plenty while I was asleep).

What I noticed was that after the initial honeymoon wore off, I was pretty normal. My body adapted, I lost the muscle definition, and instead of letting off steam during the day to porn, my body would just take care of it at night while asleep.

However as time went on, my behavior started preserving the celibacy. It was like, I could not look at girls because the sexual desires were always right under the surface. Although I did not realize it at the time, I was actually doing things that lowered my metabolism to lower libido and keep the nofap going on.

This issue can be really confusing because there are guys who porn is not good for. Whose use of porn worsens their relationships and makes it hard to connect to other human beings. I think my porn use during some of my relationships made things worse, and prevented me from connected to the human that was in front of me. I will not watch porn now because it is most exploitative, shameful, and quietly violent. That isn't what I want my brain associating with orgasm and love.

On the other hand you cannot just write orgasm and fapping off because I found that my activities eventually were detrimental to my health to keep that going. When I started doing Peaty things, it was impossible and I had to jump back on the fap band wagon.

I will say though that my couple years of celibacy was exactly what the doctor ordered. If you never have abstained, it can be a helluva ride for awhile.

I can definitely relate to this. The first month in particular is quite amazing. I have gone for prolonged periods of fasting and calorie restriction in order to accomplish NoFap, and then bumped up calories to encourage hormone production. When I did this, I did not really think about it, but it was a great way to temporarily overcome an addiction to porn, as I never stimulated those neural pathways during that time.

Lastly, and once again anecdotally, masturbating without porn produces a much less pronounced surge of dopamine and subsequently prolactin in my own experience. In these instances, I find that my libido returns within the scope of three hours. With pornography, however, I find that my libido takes about four to eight hours to bounce back. Additionally, with porn, the craving increases in its strength, the "hangover" period impacts my productivity to a far greater degree, makes me far less social, leads to mild depression (likely due to low dopamine levels), and my hunger tends to increase (also likely due to low dopamine), where I end up overeating. In conclusion, if low dopamine does not pose any negative consequences, and you're fine with living your life in a state of contentment, by all means, fap away (to porn).

 

[Dr.Winston O'Boogie]

I think that 'nofap' movement is really onto something myself although I'm not convinced that testosterone levels are a big part of the 'problem' or 'cure'.

Reading this site http://yourbrainonporn.com/ it appears that their main concern is desensitisation , basically chronic masturbators to porn needing ever increasing stimuli to get excited. I read one pretty good quote on there about with the availability of porn on the internet a guy can see more women in sexual positions in an hour than he would have in his whole lifetime in the past. I think I can relate to what they're saying, before the Internet age I would find that even a picture of naked breasts could be exciting; I doubt if I'd even notice it today.

They go into brain plasticity and down regulation of response to dopamine etc. Anyway IMO the site I have linked to is well worth a read.