Masterjohn Right? Treating Fatty Liver

[TheBeard]

The Centrality of The Liver in Pattern Baldness: Estrogen, Aspirin, and IGF-1
In this article, Danny Roddy quotes this study:
Another feature of an impaired liver is a decreased level of insulin-like growth factor 1, ...IGF-1 decreases with age and during malnutrition.[54,55] Mezey E. Insulin growth factor I and hypogonadism in cirrhosis. Hepatology. 2000 Mar;31(3):783-4. “Decreased serum IGF-1 concentrations are well documented in children with kwashiorkor, in malnourished adults, and after long-term fasting in obese male subjects."
And regarding fructose and glycogen storage: "While it is true that the liver rapidly uses fructose, it does so primarily to refill hepatic glycogen. In one study, an infusion of fructose resulted in about 360 percent more glycogen than a glucose infusion.[71] And the liver's capacity for glycogen is very large. One study suggested that "de novo lipogenesis [DNL] is not an important pathway in humans" and that chronic overfeeding on carbohydrates increased glycogen stores of about 500 grams before DNL became significant.[72] The liver uses glycogen locally for its various tasks, so keeping it "energized" is a simple and effective way to support its function..." Also, ...".Numerous studies already cited have establish that cirrhosis of the liver can be produced by nutritional deficiency or nutritional imbalance and that B vitamins (especially choline) and the protein content of the diet play a major role in this phenomenon."Biskind, M.S. Nutritional Aspects of Endocrine Disease. Am J Clin Pathol. 1946 Dec;16(12):737-45. This article shows how widely available in the diet choline is:
Choline.
This article
Relationships Between Nutrition, Alcohol Use, and Liver Disease has this to say: "Malnutrition, regardless of its causes, can lead to liver damage and impaired liver function. For example, children in underdeveloped countries whose diets do not contain enough protein can develop a disease called kwashiorkor. One symptom of this disorder is the accumulation of fat in the liver, a condition known as fatty liver. Studies performed during and after World War II indicated that severe malnutrition also could lead to liver injury in adults......Chronic drinkers, particularly those who consume a substantial portion of their daily calories in the form of alcohol, often show evidence of malnutrition such as deficits in amino acids, proteins, and certain vitamins. These deficits can derive from an inadequate diet as well as from alcohol’s effects on these nutrients and their metabolism. Particularly common is a deficit in vitamin A, which is required for proper eye function and bone growth. Moreover, both vitamin A deficits and excessive vitamin A levels can lead to liver damage, including fibrosis. Therefore, administering vitamin A to correct a deficiency is difficult and should be controlled carefully, particularly in the presence of alcohol abuse, which exacerbates vitamin A’s toxicity." So, any talk of vitamin A supplementation for Fatty Liver must take into account that too much vitamin A can cause the condition. How to prevent and treat Fatty Liver, alcoholic and non-alcoholic? Plenty of calories and the nutrients that come from following your body's desire for certain foods. This will lead to the right amount of choline, vitamin A and protein required to have a healthy liver, not to mention a healthy thyroid and everything else. Plenty of calories means whatever your body is asking for daily without saying no. That is not 2000 calories. The liver needs fructose to recover from impairment.

I have that exact problem: low IGF-1 levels and low SHBG levels because of my antibiotic abuse.
My complexion and my sclera are yellow.

I’m trying deperately to clean my liver.
Tried coffee enema and great liver flush protocole by Andreas Moritz. Yielding zero results.

Don’t know how to clean my liver

 

[Cirion]

carbohydrates increased glycogen stores of about 500 grams before DNL became significant

Interesting. What is the context of this. IE, normally the body stores what, 300-400 gram, so is this 500 gram total or 500 in addition to the 300-400?

 

[Inaut]

Don’t know how to clean my liver[/QUOTE]

Try d-limonene and something bitter like wormwood.

 

[TheBeard]

Don’t know how to clean my liver

Try d-limonene and something bitter like wormwood.[/QUOTE]

Thanks,

I purchased wormwood, clove and black walnut essential oils for a parasite cleanse that I didn’t finish, I might as well use them

 

[Spondive]

I remember I tried doing 12 egg yolks a day for a month or two in an effort to clear out my gut fat and assumed fatty liver. Didn't do ***t.

Careful supplementing Choline like PC long term. It will mess with you acetylcholine levels in your brain. Check out some nootropic forums to see what that can do.



Nice. Everyone ignored you basically but this is a good testimonial. Did you just do the 4 weeks or continue on?

I’m still taking it.. just had a liver function test yesterday all continue to be within normal range

 

[Spondive]

I tried choline chloride 1-2k mg daily for months didn’t do anything to my liver enzymes

 

[ecstatichamster]

I’m taking the E succinate thanks to the idea from @Spondive

I also am using d-Limonene, and eating with meals that are either carb or fat. I think this will all help a lot.

 

[Spondive]

I’m also starting to take d-limonene thanks to the idea from ecstatichamster

 

[Inaut]

Just thinking out loud now but taking sulfur compounds with d limonene might boost liver detoxification even more. I take gelatin, msm, and taurine.

edit-----not really applicable here as the link below discusses a polymer made from limonene and sulfur but maybe in the body, these two compounds have a synergistic effect, similar to the polymer?

We created a new material from orange peel that can clean up mercury pollution

 

[ecstatichamster]

Just thinking out loud now but taking sulfur compounds with d limonene might boost liver detoxification even more. I take gelatin, msm, and taurine.

edit-----not really applicable here as the link below discusses a polymer made from limonene and sulfur but maybe in the body, these two compounds have a synergistic effect, similar to the polymer?

We created a new material from orange peel that can clean up mercury pollution

Is there a study on this

 

[Inaut]

Is there a study on this

Not that I've seen. Quite a few articles on the polymer though... Again, just speculation on my part and apologies as it may or may not work similarly in the body. I read that that the polymer is made by heating the sulfur to a specific temperature and then adding the limonene to it.

I can extrapolate that because limonene works for bother phase 1 and phase 2 detox and sulfur works on phase 2, they COULD be synergistic

 

[ecstatichamster]

Not that I've seen. Quite a few articles on the polymer though... Again, just speculation on my part and apologies as it may or may not work similarly in the body. I read that that the polymer is made by heating the sulfur to a specific temperature and then adding the limonene to it.

I can extrapolate that because limonene works for bother phase 1 and phase 2 detox and sulfur works on phase 2, they COULD be synergistic

Thank you. You may be on to something.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

It wasn't a comparison between them, it was in response to sugarbaby's wonderment: is it possible to be skinny and still have a fatty liver?
If I'm not wrong, it's common for those dealing with anorexia to avoid fats, and they're also afflicted by this condition, so we can exclude fat as confounder.

Getting more sugar than the person can handle in an inadequate diet might not lead to that sort of stress, but it's compromising nevertheless.

- Polyunsaturated fat in the methionine-choline-deficient diet influences hepatic inflammation but not hepatocellular injury

"Removal of unsaturated fat from the MCD formula results in significant suppression of MCD-mediated hepatic inflammation; it does not, however, have any impact on MCD-mediated injury to hepatocytes."​

--
- Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease and Nutritional Implications: Special Focus on Copper

"Many anti-oxidant natural compounds are described to counteract NAFLD, its progression towards NASH and related complications [35,49,50,51]." "Interestingly, many of those compounds are able to bind copper, highlighting a direct action on copper-related dysfunction."​

- The absorption and retention of magnesium,... | Ray Peat Forum

Ok. But if one is anorexic, they aren't really avoiding fat, since their hypocaloric diet will increase blood levels of free fatty acids, and they probably didn't have a low PUFA diet for most of their life, so that may mean PUFA overload on the liver. Also, because anorexic people eat so little, their serotonin levels will be high, which explains the inflammation on the liver( and serotonin is known for causing fibrosis too), even if their PUFA level is somehow low.

I agree that an excess of carbs without b-vitamins( including choline), minerals and antioxidants will do some harm.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

It wasn't a comparison between them, it was in response to sugarbaby's wonderment: is it possible to be skinny and still have a fatty liver?
If I'm not wrong, it's common for those dealing with anorexia to avoid fats, and they're also afflicted by this condition, so we can exclude fat as confounder.

Getting more sugar than the person can handle in an inadequate diet might not lead to that sort of stress, but it's compromising nevertheless.

- Polyunsaturated fat in the methionine-choline-deficient diet influences hepatic inflammation but not hepatocellular injury

"Removal of unsaturated fat from the MCD formula results in significant suppression of MCD-mediated hepatic inflammation; it does not, however, have any impact on MCD-mediated injury to hepatocytes."​

--
- Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease and Nutritional Implications: Special Focus on Copper

"Many anti-oxidant natural compounds are described to counteract NAFLD, its progression towards NASH and related complications [35,49,50,51]." "Interestingly, many of those compounds are able to bind copper, highlighting a direct action on copper-related dysfunction."​

- The absorption and retention of magnesium,... | Ray Peat Forum

Btw, what's your take on vitamin E succinate?

 

[Kelj]

Interesting. What is the context of this. IE, normally the body stores what, 300-400 gram, so is this 500 gram total or 500 in addition to the 300-400?

1. Acheson, K.J., et al. Glycogen storage capacity and de novo lipogenesis during massive carbohydrate overfeeding in man. Am J Clin Nutr. 1988 Aug;48(2):240-7. “Glycogen storage capacity in man is approximately 15 g/kg body weight and can accommodate a gain of approximately 500 g before net lipid synthesis contributes to increasing body fat mass. When the glycogen stores are saturated, massive intakes of carbohydrate are disposed of by high carbohydrate-oxidation rates and substantial de novo lipid synthesis (150 g lipid/d using approximately 475 g CHO/d) without postabsorptive hyperglycemia.”

 

[Kelj]

I have that exact problem: low IGF-1 levels and low SHBG levels because of my antibiotic abuse.
My complexion and my sclera are yellow.

I’m trying deperately to clean my liver.
Tried coffee enema and great liver flush protocole by Andreas Moritz. Yielding zero results.

Don’t know how to clean my liver

Ray speaks of fruit juice and fiber restoring the liver. In the true intuitive eating I practice, it has been my experience that the body will ask for lemonade. I believe this helps restore many body functions including liver function. If, when you think of lemonade, it sounds really good, your body wants it. I have never had a craving for limonene or wormwood. The body knows which foods and drinks will make it well. My body became completely well when I gave it the foods it craved...like lemonade.

 

[Cirion]

Woah, is that real? If I'm reading that right, the idea of storing 300-400 gram is wrong?

15g/kg for me since I'm overweight at 280 lb would be around 130 kg which means 1,950 grams of carbs, and then it is saying you can eat 500 above that and not get fat? Is this real life? LOL

That doesn't seem right?

I think I am interested to read more of that study.

I will say I've had EXTREMELY high carb days like 1,000 and 1,200 grams where my body weight actually dropped the next day, counterintuitively. For what it's worth. Keeping in mind those days my dietary fat was very low as well. Ironically lately I find if I restrict food I gain weight. Most people track calories to not eat too much... I track now to not eat too little LOL

 

[ecstatichamster]

Ray speaks of fruit juice and fiber restoring the liver. In the true intuitive eating I practice, it has been my experience that the body will ask for lemonade. I believe this helps restore many body functions including liver function. If, when you think of lemonade, it sounds really good, your body wants it. I have never had a craving for limonene or wormwood. The body knows which foods and drinks will make it well. My body became completely well when I gave it the foods it craved...like lemonade.

Interesting idea.

 

[tankasnowgod]

They both pertain to the macrolide-antibiotic class.

But regardless of their classification, I’m blaming all antibiotics for deteriorated gut health, as they all destroy gut flora.

Fair enough. I'm blaming all gut flora as problems for deteriorated gut health, myself.

 

[Tarmander]

I’m taking the E succinate thanks to the idea from @Spondive

I also am using d-Limonene, and eating with meals that are either carb or fat. I think this will all help a lot.

Dude how funny. Last night I had this idea pop into my head that I should start taking more D-Limonene. Maybe all this reading about liver stuff.

Anyone taken it long term have a testimony about it?