Masterjohn Right? Treating Fatty Liver

[Maljam]

“After reading the research reviewed in that post, I'm quite convinced that the development of fatty liver is pretty simple: anything that increases the amount of energy that the liver needs to process forms the first part; anything that impairs the ability of the liver to export that energy forms the second part. High intakes of total calories, sugar, fat, or alcohol can all contribute to fatty liver in animals. But the king of all nutrients needed to export that energy as fat, choline, protects against the disease in all of these animal models.

Of course, a high intake of PUFA contributes to the inflammatory component, and when combined with other toxic factors may also contribute to the fatty component by preventing the liver from exporting its fat.”
Does Choline Deficiency Contribute to Fatty Liver in Humans | Chris Masterjohn, PhD

If you keep fructose below 1 g/kg, it should not even reach the liver.

“High doses of fructose (≥1 g/kg) overwhelm intestinal fructose absorption and clearance, resulting in fructose reaching both the liver and colonic microbiota. Intestinal fructose clearance is augmented both by prior exposure to fructose and by feeding. We propose that the small intestine shields the liver from otherwise toxic fructose exposure.”
The Small Intestine Converts Dietary Fructose Into Glucose And Organic Acids

“Fructose consumption at moderate levels of intake do not adversely effect body weight or blood chemistry based on the current data. Obscenely high levels of intake (>150 grams per day) may have undesirable health effects”
Fructose: Burying the Boogeyman - Science Driven Nutrition

This is one of my issues with health forums in general, when someone shares an experience that contradicts the forum, then someone throws a load of studies of them to prove them wrong.

I developed fatty liver diagnosed by ultrasound after eating a Peat inspired diet, very similar to ones on here, it doesn't matter how many studies I read about it. I never had this issue before discovering Peat.

 

[jet9]

Rice and potatoes.
Yess i have quit taking all high fructose foods/fruits and juices. beside the liver pain its gives me more health problems than it solves it.
Still experimenting with milk sugar

How does the rest of your diet looks like? What are your staples besides rice/potatoes?

 

[Mito]

This is one of my issues with health forums in general, when someone shares an experience that contradicts the forum, then someone throws a load of studies of them to prove them wrong.

I developed fatty liver diagnosed by ultrasound after eating a Peat inspired diet, very similar to ones on here, it doesn't matter how many studies I read about it. I never had this issue before discovering Peat.

Not trying to prove you wrong. You’re experience is what it is. The point of the studies is help you understand what may be happening. A when you supply the liver with too much energy and the liver can’t export the fat fast enough, it builds up in the liver. The one study suggests that enough choline is vital to the liver for exporting the fat fast enough. The other study suggests that the small intestine is able to metabolize fructose before it even gets to the liver, but not if you eat too much. The last one suggests limiting fructose to 150 grams per day or you may have troubles.

 

[yerrag]

Not trying to prove you wrong. You’re experience is what it is. The point of the studies is help you understand what may be happening. A when you supply the liver with too much energy and the liver can’t export the fat fast enough, it builds up in the liver. The one study suggests that enough choline is vital to the liver for exporting the fat fast enough. The other study suggests that the small intestine is able to metabolize fructose before it even gets to the liver, but not if you eat too much. The last one suggests limiting fructose to 150 grams per day or you may have troubles.

How does the liver export fat?

 

[Mito]

How does the liver export fat?

Choline is necessary to produce phosphatidylcholine which is a critical component of the VLDL particle which exports fat from the liver.
The Sweet Truth About Liver and Egg Yolks -- Choline Matters More to Fatty Liver Than Sugar, Alcohol, or Fat | Chris Masterjohn, PhD

“Export of triglycerides from the liver requires the formation of VLDL and when VLDL formation is impaired steatosis can develop”
Lipid and Lipoprotein Metabolism in Liver Disease - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

 

[yerrag]

Thanks!

 

[Frankdee20]

Choline is good for this issue, but more than 500 MG from food (4-5 eggs) will lead to depression states in me due to high acetylcholine

 

[gaze]

This is one of my issues with health forums in general, when someone shares an experience that contradicts the forum, then someone throws a load of studies of them to prove them wrong.

I developed fatty liver diagnosed by ultrasound after eating a Peat inspired diet, very similar to ones on here, it doesn't matter how many studies I read about it. I never had this issue before discovering Peat.

out of curiosity, what were you eating? What do you consider a peat inspired diet?

 

[Maljam]

out of curiosity, what were you eating? What do you consider a peat inspired diet?

Litres of lower fat milk per day, sometimes with some sucrose. A litre of orange juice. Various fruits, less meat than I ate before, cheese, coke, gummy sweets as a treat. Haagan dazs. Carrot salad daily, coconut oil to cook anything, liver, oysters, eggs, mushrooms, eggshell calcium.

 

[Belsazar]

Just wanted to add that masterjohn recommended in one of his podcasts to keep Vitamin A (preformed Retinol) in case of fatty liver below 3000IU.

I haven't seen the connection to Vitamin D yet in here: "The Association Between Serum Vitamin D Level and Nonalcoholic Fatty Liver Disease" (Doi:10.5812/hepatmon.92992)

 

[Re.Generate]

Choline is good for this issue, but more than 500 MG from food (4-5 eggs) will lead to depression states in me due to high acetylcholine

I would disagree with this when it’s from food - and would still think is room for a short 2-4 megadose of choline purely for liver cleaning purposes - also then using creative, betaine, but still lowering methionine during that time - and then resuming afterwards with just say 2-4 egg yolks a day.

I think the creative and betaine play an important part - especially as betaine is sorely missing on RP eating because we usually avoid bread ?

We also need at least a little folate coming in as that also spares choline - and though very high choline long term is certainly not great - a full on regime for a few weeks, alongside vitamin e and other helpers, wouldn’t be too dangerous

 

[GreekDemiGod]

Litres of lower fat milk per day, sometimes with some sucrose. A litre of orange juice. Various fruits, less meat than I ate before, cheese, coke, gummy sweets as a treat. Haagan dazs. Carrot salad daily, coconut oil to cook anything, liver, oysters, eggs, mushrooms, eggshell calcium.

Should have dropped the gummy sweats, and reduce Coke.

 

[RealNeat]

Ray speaks of fruit juice and fiber restoring the liver. In the true intuitive eating I practice, it has been my experience that the body will ask for lemonade. I believe this helps restore many body functions including liver function. If, when you think of lemonade, it sounds really good, your body wants it. I have never had a craving for limonene or wormwood. The body knows which foods and drinks will make it well. My body became completely well when I gave it the foods it craved...like lemonade.

Whenever I drink lemon water I get muscle twitches. Legs and arms sometimes also a lot of mucus. I wonder what's up. The mucus makes sense as it's acidic and my esophagus is likely trying to protect the tissue but the twitches? Maybe Rays explanation of citric acid disturbing calcium is causing it, but it's almost instantaneous.

 

[FitnessMike]

can anyone confirm that fatty liver, assuming that it slows down digestion, can contribute to sibo?

 

[David PS]

can anyone confirm that fatty liver, assuming that it slows down digestion, can contribute to sibo?

maybe

How SIBO & Fatty Liver are connected (and what to do about it) - SIBO SOS

The link between SIBO and fatty liver is strong. Getting SIBO under control is an important step for liver health. Jonathan Landsman shares his expertise.

sibosos.com

Edit:

The role of Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth (SIBO) in Non-alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease (NAFLD) patients evaluated using Controlled Attenuation Parameter (CAP) Transient Elastography (TE): a tertiary referral center experience - BMC Gastroenter

Background Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is an emerging disease, where it can progress to non-alcoholic steatohepatitis (NASH) and lead to liver cirrhosis or liver cancer. Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth (SIBO) has been hypothesized to play an important role in NAFLD...

bmcgastroenterol.biomedcentral.com

Small Intestinal Bacterial Overgrowth and Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease: What Do We Know in 2023?

Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD) is a chronic liver disease associated with the pathological accumulation of lipids inside hepatocytes. Untreated NAFL can progress to non-alcoholic hepatitis (NASH), followed by fibrosis, cirrhosis, and hepatocellular carcinoma (HCC). The common...

www.mdpi.com

 

[GreekDemiGod]

can anyone confirm that fatty liver, assuming that it slows down digestion, can contribute to sibo?

View: https://youtu.be/gMcuy9Wy4p0?si=yWC8UwsSVwLZI6o3