Many Studies Show Ideal BMI For Older People Is Fat Fat Fat

[InChristAlone]

Peat said Muscle is protective and pro metabolic, at rest you burn more fat having more muscle.

Then I don't understand why my husband has a BMI of like 38-well according to calculators-it may be way less because of his weight lifting. With all his muscle mass why isn't he burning off the fat?

 

[Runenight201]

Then I don't understand why my husband has a BMI of like 38-well according to calculators-it may be way less because of his weight lifting. With all his muscle mass why isn't he burning off the fat?

Having muscles doesn’t mean that fat loss will occur, just that those muscles will consume fat while at rest. So an individual will burn more fat with more muscles compared to that same individual with less muscles.

If that strong individual is insulin resistant, has poor hormonal health, or chronically eats beyond their caloric needs, they will have both a high muscle mass and high fat mass. Ever see the strongmen competitions? Those guys all have high BMI, high muscle mass, and high fat mass. Only by bringing the body into balance will the fat mass decline.

 

[InChristAlone]

Having muscles doesn’t mean that fat loss will occur, just that those muscles will consume fat while at rest. So an individual will burn more fat with more muscles compared to that same individual with less muscles.

If that strong individual is insulin resistant, has poor hormonal health, or chronically eats beyond their caloric needs, they will have both a high muscle mass and high fat mass. Ever see the strongmen competitions? Those guys all have high BMI, high muscle mass, and high fat mass. Only by bringing the body into balance will the fat mass decline.

Yes actually he wants to be like strongmen. But I've been having to remind him that they don't care about being huge, being huge gives them an advantage... although the world's strongest man competition is becoming more about agility than it has been in the past so they are starting to drop some weight to be more agile on their feet.

He eats a lot of beef and rice, basically the Vertical diet. He didn't do well on a heavy milk diet so options for protein are limited.

 

[tara]

Peat said Muscle is protective and pro metabolic, at rest you burn more fat having more muscle.

Peat has spoken in favour of maintaining and building some muscle. I don't see that that contradicts the idea that some fat can also have value.

 

[Nemo]

Dr. Peat said in an interview that there was a study of fasting that showed that people who fasted, or maybe it was pigs, I can't remember, but anyway, fasting organisms lost a lot of lean mass ...but if they were given some fruit juice and some mineral replacement, they lost mostly all fat and very little lean mass.

Big!

 

[akgrrrl]

The whole BMI thing tossed me for decades because at checkups the nurse taking vitals would automatically ask if I wanted obesity counseling. I decided to raise my shirt to expose my trim waist and abs and glare at her "REALLY?
A 5ft 10 female in her 60s with 28 inch waist is uncommon here so I was sure to piss her off. But lifting packed on muscle so 185 lbs has been my norm for a decade. BMI is a crock.

 

[Eric88]

I was 90 kg once at 183 cm. I was more attractive to females and happier. Now people act like I'm invisible. I look scrawny at just 69 kg (underweight while eating a lot and not training at all, my FT4 is high so I guess I burn calories too fast).

 

[Nigel Forester]

I was 90 kg once at 183 cm. I was more attractive to females and happier. Now people act like I'm invisible. I look scrawny at just 69 kg (underweight while eating a lot and not training at all, my FT4 is high so I guess I burn calories too fast).

It’s the other way for me, when I was somewhat gaunt and neurotic I got attention. Now that I filled out and my face looks plumper I get noticed way less. Back then I cared about attention, now it means nearly nothing. A look of lust from a thot is worse than nothing, really.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

I don't quite understand the need for so much stored fat for health reasons though, old or not.

Couldn't someone thinner and ill just eat more (maybe easier said than done, but yeah) and get the extra energy when needed? Doesn't sound like the most optimal thing to expect everyone to carry around poundage of a certain amount of fat for more energy when more good foods eaten as needed (with possibly appetite enhancement as needed too) can make up for insufficient energy in the form of calories should more be needed in certain cases/times.

What is it about so much extra fat that would be so effective that couldn't be made up for in some other ways like eating more, or other inverventions? I know Peat himself even references those studies on age and health/fat/outcomes, but he himself isn't "overweight" really despite being 83 as of today and in okay health from what I know of.

So while I'm not saying the fat can't be protective, is there not another way to get the same "protection" without the extra fat? It must not be a hard requirement since there are healthy 80+ people who are thin or at least not overweight/chubby.

I think an incorrect association can be drawn between a higher BMI being protective and a higher body fat percentage as being healthy.

BMI is not solely determined by fat mass, but also bone mass, muscle mass, tissue mass, water, etc.... I think the bigger carrier of good health in the linked study would be the fact the subjects had good muscle mass and bone density, and not that they had high amounts of fat.

I’ve noticed that the less stomach and chest fat I have, the better I feel, mentally, emotionally, energetically, and athletically. The less bogged down my stomach is, the more capable I am as a human being.

I have noticed that vital energy drops around this time and many people around 70-85 start looking more “catabolic” rather and “anabolic”. They seem more hunched over, contracting inwards, less sure of themselves when walking - like looking down when they walk to be sure sure of each step, etc. I wonder if it is all connected somehow. Metabolic energy, vital energy seems important in the scenario.

Are there any studies that follow the long term health trajectory of high BMI and low BMI individuals? That would be more informative.

My interpretation of these "fat protection" studies is that they show that a heavy, aged person has deteriorated less than a light, aged person. Most people start wasting away before their death, either very acutely in a couple weeks or over several years. A low BMI individual in their 60's is farther along the slope to death than a robust high BMI individual in their 60's.

Ray often points toward the child metabolism as an ideal.

Stored fat is a to-do list. If your metabolism was able to process the materials into something useful for the body or eliminate harmful materials, it would have already done so. But it can't, for whatever reason, so it gets stored.

People think that stored fat is good for the winter or famine, the body is adapting appropriately to certain signals. So what does this mean when this fat exists year round for decades? You live in an eternal winter? Are you thriving or surviving?

I realize that a lot of people want to rationalize weight gain as healthy because often it seems out of our control. It's an emotional burden to not be where you want to be... and wonder if you'll ever really make it.

At my highest I was 193lbs and I think my ideal weight is around 165lbs (for a man, it really depends on how much muscle you want to carry around). Right now I'm at 170lbs and I'm happy there because I don't think I can do better while in America. Even though I felt like I was "peating" at 193lbs, my diet now is not at all like it was then. I had to change. If I fully convinced myself that being fat is "protective", then I might have never changed. My changes came indirectly, I didn't devise them-- but it was I who accepted the changes and continued them.

I see mental rigidity in the people who aren't losing the weight they know they need to lose. They get stuck with a particular regimen, diet, or lifestyle.

I do think that some fat accumulation may be necessary in a journey to better health, for a year or two. But not permanently. If you are really healing your metabolism, your body doesn't have a huge backlog of things to do: it gets things done.

 

[Jib]

Oh lord. I've got a lot to learn.

Not happy with my physique. Working out regularly now, building muscle, but still overweight. Cortisol belly. I thought building muscle would help burn fat but I am just getting bigger. Not fatter, thankfully, but just muscle on top of fat. Like now I'm just a big dude. Playing the long game here.

Got paranoid with fruit juices and switched more to whole fruit. I do feel better physically with whole fruit. I don't seem to react well to juice at all. Sluggish, fatigue, shaky even sometimes. Whole fruit generally doesn't give me these symptoms at all.

 

[lvysaur]

They also have better thymal function

It's obvious by now that obesity is basically a secondary factor and not really the cause of anything, fixing it is like saving up to buy Lacoste clothing because that's what all the rich people wear, hoping that it'll make you successful

 

[Hugh Johnson]

Obesity being protective in an unhealthy population does not mean it is a good thing. Plenty of adaptations seem beneficial in a sick context, including things like aggressive behaviour. Trying to lose weight be caloric restriction and excessive exercise is harmful and does not address the cause of the body fat accumulation. We know that in healthy population the healthiest portion of the people, the young, are almost never fat. What is considered normal for a young person today would be considered very fat in a healthy population.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

It's obvious by now that obesity is basically a secondary factor and not really the cause of anything, fixing it is like saving up to buy Lacoste clothing because that's what all the rich people wear, hoping that it'll make you successful

You're saying obesity is inconsequential?

Nobody here is saying that one should become thin at all costs.

My understanding is that (excess) adipose tissue is pro-inflammatory. "On the other hand, hypertrophied adipocytes secrete pro-inflammatory saturated fatty acids, cytokines, and chemokines to induce M1 polarization of macrophages [29]. Activated M1 macrophages in turn produce pro-inflammatory cytokines and chemokines, thereby accelerating adipose tissue inflammation." Adipose Tissue Remodeling as Homeostatic Inflammation

 

[lvysaur]

You're saying obesity is inconsequential?

No, I'm just saying that it's nearly always the result of something else wrong, and can't be solved through quantitative (calorie) means.
I don't think that most obese people are actually overeating for instance

 

[Ableton]

in my experience body fat is mostly about balancing adrenals. when mine were overactive I was very lean on 4k cal. now that i quieted them down im gaining some weight (and strength) on like 3k cals. very weird. its like the act of running for 20 minutes will only burn like what, 300 cals? but the spike in adrenaline and so on will get you in a state where its closer to 1000 cals, especially if you run in a fasted state.

 

[Steven Bussinger]

No, I'm just saying that it's nearly always the result of something else wrong, and can't be solved through quantitative (calorie) means.
I don't think that most obese people are actually overeating for instance

I agree with you, but I have to ask: which thread are you reading? Nobody said anything about "cutting calories", at least I sure didn't.

 

[lvysaur]

I agree with you, but I have to ask: which thread are you reading? Nobody said anything about "cutting calories", at least I sure didn't.

I wasn't opposing you

 

[Rinse & rePeat]

In contrast, fat people may have more chance of having the capacity to gain more fat, that save them.

This sounds plausible….

Higher BMI May Be Better For Older Adults

Higher BMI May Be Better for Older Adults https://www.medpagetoday.com/endocrinology/generalendocrinology/44843 The association between all-cause mortality and BMI created a U-shaped curve with a broad base (P-nonlinearity

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