Manganese And Its Unimportance In Health

[Rafael Lao Wai]

@Amazoniac I don't understand, you are saying manganese is not important for health in both your post and the title. You posted a lot of studies showing it is beneficial. Should we not be supplementing with manganese

lol That's Amazoniac being sarcastic

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Isn't a relatively high amount of ROS good and an indication of oxidative metabolism? @Amazoniac

Things like sucrose, methylene blue and plamitic acid all increase ROS production.

Cancer cells hate ROS, I think bacteria do too, so maybe the RDA for manganese was a little exaggerated?

 

[BigChad]

Isn't a relatively high amount of ROS good and an indication of oxidative metabolism? @Amazoniac

Things like sucrose, methylene blue and plamitic acid all increase ROS production.

Cancer cells hate ROS, I think bacteria do too, so maybe the RDA for manganese was a little exaggerated?

what would you say is the ideal manganese intake. And what if you are taking in supplemental iron or higher iron/copper from diet, would manganese needs increase in order to counteract the iron and copper

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

what would you say is the ideal manganese intake. And what if you are taking in supplemental iron or higher iron/copper from diet, would manganese needs increase in order to counteract the iron and copper

I don't really know how much magnesium people should ingest, but I very much doubt the RDAs for nutrients. It's just a suspicion of mine that the RDA for manganese is exaggerated.

Regarding iron's interaction with manganese, it seems manganese may help protect aganst iron excess, so that would mean iron is safer when combined with a higher intake of manganese

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

what would you say is the ideal manganese intake. And what if you are taking in supplemental iron or higher iron/copper from diet, would manganese needs increase in order to counteract the iron and copper

Btw, if you're supplementing iron, make sure that it's not irritating your gut. If you don't notice bloating/constipation/bloody stools/allergies, then it's probably fine.

 

[Amazoniac]

Isn't a relatively high amount of ROS good and an indication of oxidative metabolism? @Amazoniac

Things like sucrose, methylene blue and plamitic acid all increase ROS production.

Cancer cells hate ROS, I think bacteria do too, so maybe the RDA for manganese was a little exaggerated?

Depriving yourself of antioxidants is not the solution, it will in fact further compromise energy production by forcing the body to slow down because the stress becomes overwhelming. You'll also tend towards energy storage because it signals that you can't burn more food, so it's a prevention against energy owaload.

I don't remember if it's the case for manganese, but some trace minerals tend to compete with each other for absorption. When you consume a food that you crave and is rich in them, you're not only selecting the most favorable profile for you at the time, but since there will be competition, it's easier for the body to prioritize those that you need and discard the others. This is more difficult if you take it as a supplement.

There's no RDA for manganese since the amount required for balance in experiments is all over the place. Those that lasted longer can be confouded by adaptations to suboptimal intakes, so it's difficult to judge. If the person is in good wealth, he/she might get by with little, but otherwise, since it's safe and easily excreted, I would favor plenty of it.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Depriving yourself of antioxidants is not the solution, it will in fact further compromise energy production by forcing the body to slow down because the stress becomes overwhelming. You'll also tend towards energy storage because it signals that you can't burn more food, so it's a prevention against energy owaload.

I don't remember if it's the case for manganese, but some trace minerals tend to compete with each other for absorption. When you consume a food that you crave and is rich in them, you're not only selecting the most favorable profile for you at the time, but since there will be competition, it's easier for the body to prioritize those that you need and discard the others. This is more difficult if you take it as a supplement.

There's no RDA for manganese since the amount required for balance in experiments is all over the place. Those that lasted longer can be confouded by adaptations to suboptimal intakes, so it's difficult to judge. If the person is in good wealth, he/she might get by with little, but otherwise, since it's safe and easily excreted, I would favor plenty of it.

So good thyroid funtion may help with holding onto manganese, just like it does with magnesium.

I agree, some amount of antioxidative activity is necessary, since ROS, although they are much milder to healthy cells than to cancer cells, still do some damage, and so it's important that the regular cells have some form of defense against them.

 

[SOMO]

So good thyroid funtion may help with holding onto manganese, just like it does with magnesium.

I agree, some amount of antioxidative activity is necessary, since ROS, although they are much milder to healthy cells than to cancer cells, still do some damage, and so it's important that the regular cells have some form of defense against them.

MB which a lot of people on this forum use, can produce extra ROS in some situations.

ROS is supposedly antibacterial and MB has been used to generate ROS for its antimicrobial activity.

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

MB which a lot of people on this forum use, can produce extra ROS in some situations.

ROS is supposedly antibacterial and MB has been used to generate ROS for its antimicrobial activity.

Yeah, maybe some extra manganese while using MB is a good idea.

 

[Frankdee20]

Manganese is required for proper functioning of the 5ht1A receptor along with Magnesium.

 

[BigChad]

Manganese is required for proper functioning of the 5ht1A receptor along with Magnesium.

what does that receptor do

 

[Frankdee20]

It is an Auto receptor for the signalling of Serotonin, and both the sending and recieving side are implicated in many issues.

 

[Frankdee20]

Manganese helps the binding of agonists.

 

[BigChad]

It is an Auto receptor for the signalling of Serotonin, and both the sending and recieving side are implicated in many issues.

so manganese deficiency could cause serious issues with excess serotonin?

 

[milkboi]

I get about 9mgs of manganese per day through diet (maple syrup). Could that intake be already too high @Amazoniac?

 

[Amazoniac]

I get about 9mgs of manganese per day through diet (maple syrup). Could that intake be already too high @Amazoniac?

It's fine. In cases of severe liver issues that could justify the thought of avoiding it, toxicity occurs in spite of low intakes. Unlike "vitamin" A where the dose makes the poison.. less or more harmful, with manganese you have a wide range for safe consumption.

- Nutritional aspects of manganese homeostasis

"Adaptive changes to high dietary Mn intake include reduced gastrointestinal tract absorption, enhanced liver metabolism, and increased biliary and pancreatic excretion of this metal (Britton and Cotzias, 1966; Davis et al., 1993; Dorman et al., 2001, 2002; Finley and Davis, 1999; Malecki et al., 1996)."

"Biliary secretion is the main pathway for Mn excretion (Davis et al., 1993; Malecki et al., 1996). Irrespective of the level of Mn intake, adult humans generally maintain stable tissue Mn concentrations, achieved by tightly controlled regulation of absorption and excretion rates. In the liver, Mn is removed from the blood, conjugated with bile and excreted into the intestine. A small fraction of Mn in the intestine is reabsorbed, establishing de facto an enterohepatic circulation (Schroeder et al., 1996)."

"Pancreatic excretion of Mn contributes only a small fraction of the absorbed Mn dose (Davis et al., 1993). Urinary excretion of Mn is generally low."

"Hepatic dysfunction and cholestasis are known risks factors for increased accumulation of Mn in the brain in both humans and animal models (Ballatori et al., 1987; Krieger et al., 1995; Malecki et al., 1996; Montes et al., 2001; Erikson and Aschner, 2003). Patients with portosystemic shunts and biliary atresia display hypermanganesemia, even in the absence of increased dietary Mn (Rose et al., 1999; Reimund et al., 2000; Ikeda et al., 2000a,b)."​

- Time to Re-evaluate the Guideline Value for Manganese in Drinking Water?

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- The Essential Element Manganese, Oxidative Stress, and Metabolic Diseases: Links and Interactions

 

[Rafael Lao Wai]

Unlike "vitamin" A where the dose makes the poison.. less or more harmful

I've been eating 100 grams of beef liver everyday now for a few weeks. Raw...

I've been getting a lot of """vitamin""" A.

 

[rebuke]

I've been eating 100 grams of beef liver everyday now for a few weeks. Raw...

I've been getting a lot of """vitamin""" A.

How do you feel?

 

[Cirion]

Curious as well. I am starting to think organ meats are superfoods, but not enough experimentation with them to be sure yet. Liver is far more than just vitamin A, I do not think you can reduce it to that level, so it's not the same thing as maybe some other foods that are rich in VA.

 

[BigChad]

Curious as well. I am starting to think organ meats are superfoods, but not enough experimentation with them to be sure yet. Liver is far more than just vitamin A, I do not think you can reduce it to that level, so it's not the same thing as maybe some other foods that are rich in VA.

vitamin A foods I have seen whether plant or animal, seem to have vitamin A alongside iron and copper, and folate, possibly vitamin c.
im not sure what happens if you take vitamin A regularly, with a minimal copper intake. or vitamin A alongside minimal copper, and high vitamin C which depletes copper and ceruloplasmin.