Mandatory vaccines in Russia. How does this fit in the opinion of many that say Covid is exaggerated by the west for their political interests?

[Oleg]

honest question since i haven't been there, in what ways do russians not have freedom that the US does ?

Freedom wise, I personally feel that Russia is much more free society. I can’t think of any way Russians less free than let’s say Americans are. Only area that I am not happy about is gay rights. It is very much similar to other East European countries in that regard. Basically at the same level England was in the 70s with its anti gay propaganda law.

 

[gaze]

Again, I should have been more precise. In the US/Canada/Western Europe there has been widespread societal and even governmental acceptance and at least superficial furthering of concepts of freedom of press and individuality, for a long time. Russia went straight from Tsarism to the USSR and after a few years of disorder in the 1990s, it's been Putin rule ever since. Political opponents and press haven't really thrived in the past 20 years, or in the century prior.

It's a completely different world. As we've seen recently in North America, Europe and Australia, the freedom of expression and individual rights were mostly illusory, but they were things we supposedly built our societies around.

That was my original thought, but it's sort of doesn't apply to the context anymore, especially as was mentioned earlier, Putin is against mandatory vaccination.

i agree on the surface, what intrigues me is Ray saying how when he went to the USSR the scientists were much more open and friendly, and had much more freedom to experiment while the US heading towards pharmaceutical patents and stifling research. again, im not sure what the quality of life actually was there, and how much it differed from western interpretations.

I would be interested to know the levels of debt Russians have historically taken on per individual compared the US, since a good arguement can made some of the predatory loans and banking empires in the US can be thought of as different forms of legal servitude, although i'm sure all countries have very similar issues. some of dostoyevskys work touched on the relationships between creditors and people back in the 19th century, however i'm not sure how that system changed under lenin/stalin and then into post USSR russia

 

[mrchibbs]

i agree on the surface, what intrigues me is Ray saying how when he went to the USSR the scientists were much more open and friendly, and had much more freedom to experiment while the US heading towards pharmaceutical patents and stifling research. again, im not sure what the quality of life actually was there, and how much it differed from western interpretations.

I would be interested to know the levels of debt Russians have historically taken on per individual compared the US, since a good arguement can made some of the predatory loans and banking empires in the US can be thought of as different forms of legal servitude, although i'm sure all countries have very similar issues. some of dostoyevskys work touched on the relationships between creditors and people back in the 19th century, however i'm not sure how that system changed under lenin/stalin and then into post USSR russia

It wasn't all bad. I'm not anti-USSR at all. They won the war, not the US.

By all accounts for a while the USSR was a much better environment than say the 1950s US with the McCarthy witch hunts. Corporate influence wasn't really a thing (aside from the state and the military) so they explored things at a much more fundamental level, without the profit motive.

Mind and Tissue is really an amazing book.

 

[BearWithMe]

Freedom wise, I personally feel that Russia is much more free society. I can’t think of any way Russians less free than let’s say Americans are. Only area that I am not happy about is gay rights. It is very much similar to other East European countries in that regard. Basically at the same level England was in the 70s with its anti gay propaganda law.

I have spent 4 years in USA, 2 years in Russia and the rest of my life in Europe.

Can 100% confirm what Oleg said.

I'd go as far as saying that Americans are the least free of the above.

Hey @mrchibbs it seems like your personality changed a lot recently. What happened? Are you okay?

 

[Lollipop2]

I'd go as far as saying that Americans are the least free of the above.

Interesting. Can you give details to clarify your opinion. I am very curious.

 

[gaze]

Interesting. Can you give details to clarify your opinion. I am very curious.

The War on Freedom: How Tyranny Overran the United States - LewRockwell

Slowly, against their will, and against their natural inclination to watch football and eat pizza, Americans are awaking to the reality of a totalitarian system with its tentacles wrapped around every aspect of their existence. Sadly, the true nature of this tyranny still eludes the...

www.lewrockwell.com

I thought this was fairly nuanced take on the lack of freedom in the US

 

[Missenger]

It wasn't all bad. I'm not anti-USSR at all. They won the war, not the US.

By all accounts for a while the USSR was a much better environment than say the 1950s US with the McCarthy witch hunts. Corporate influence wasn't really a thing (aside from the state and the military) so they explored things at a much more fundamental level, without the profit motive.

Mind and Tissue is really an amazing book.

A biography about Russian science studies their government allowed instead of harassing them to death over for conducting doesn't have too much to do with how a country is run by their 'financiers'.

Ray Peat - Mind And Tissue Russian Research Perspectives on the Human Brain-Borgo Press (1985)

https://files.catbox.moe/7tvsre.pdf

 

[Ledo]

It wasn't all bad. I'm not anti-USSR at all. They won the war, not the US.

By all accounts for a while the USSR was a much better environment than say the 1950s US with the McCarthy witch hunts.

No dissonance there for you at all, not even a little bit?
Maybe, just maybe, McCarthy was after communists, not witches?

 

[Lollipop2]

The War on Freedom: How Tyranny Overran the United States - LewRockwell

Slowly, against their will, and against their natural inclination to watch football and eat pizza, Americans are awaking to the reality of a totalitarian system with its tentacles wrapped around every aspect of their existence. Sadly, the true nature of this tyranny still eludes the...

www.lewrockwell.com

I thought this was fairly nuanced take on the lack of freedom in the US

Thank you @gaze. I need these type of resources to point people too.

 

[Missenger]

As far as I'm aware (from what I've seen and what other people were saying) most 'social media' is on vk, telegram or i2p now due to Russian internet 'censorship', although that doesn't have much to do with American.

 

[Pistachio]

Western and Eastern leadership in on the fix together. But for the plebs, they create the illusion that it is either the Wuhan virus or CIA virus as pretext for WW3, which will be used to finish off many of us (depopulation).

 

[Pistachio]

Putin has repeatedly said he doesn't want mandatory vaccines for Russians. Does his authority over-ride regional governors in such matters? My impression is this is a decision made by the regional governors in Russia, rather than a countrywide mandate (similar to how it is a decision made by state governors in the US). Either way I can't say it reflects well on him either, but he is a statesman and probably wants to keep his position, so perhaps he's thinking from that angle. I hope Russians will pushback against this nonsense. But it isn't mutually exclusive with the well-documented exaggeration and exploitation of the Covid crisis for political and financial gain, particularly in the US, but also the UK, and perhaps Russia as well. Check this out: A manufactured illusion. Dr David Martin with Reiner Fuellmich 9/7/21

What Putin tells Western audiences is often very different from what he tells his domestic audience. Remember, hybrid, non-linear warfare a la the crypto Soviet Union.

Vaccinate or Repent Forever, Russian Orthodox Church Warns - The Moscow Times

Russians who refuse to get vaccinated against the coronavirus are taking a sin upon themselves that they will repent for until the end of their days, a top Russian Orthodox Church official said Monday. “I now constantly face such situations when people come to a priest in order to repent that...

www.themoscowtimes.com

Russian Orthodox Church headed by mini-pope Kirill, a known KGB asset and liquor profiteer.

Russian Orthodox Patriarch resides in $295 million ‘dacha’ next to Putin palace, oligarchs

Резиденцию патриарха Кирилла по соседству с дворцом Путина под Геленджиком построили за 22 млрд рублей

Начало строительства «домика» обсуждалось еще в 2004 году. Тогда же был заключен договор с генподрядчиком компанией «Стройинжиниринг СУ-848». В это же время к местным приехали и представители

compromat.group

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-NuGX8dtbk


Eighty-five-year-old schemamonk Elder Raphail of Mount Athos warns the flock of the KGB (FSB), ecumenical, and masonic tyranny of the Soviet-controlled Moscow Patriarchate of Eastern Orthodoxy, with footage of “Patriarch” Kirill stating that Muslims, Christians, and Jews all worship the same god. Kirill is a KGB agent, suspected mason, and champion of the ecumenical World Council of Churches.

Putin’s alleged nationality card shows that his mother is Jewish. It is highlighted with a red box. It reads “/Евр./” at the end of her name, which is an abbreviation for the Russian word for Jew: Еврей.

 

[Pistachio]

No dissonance there for you at all, not even a little bit?
Maybe, just maybe, McCarthy was after communists, not witches?

Unfortunately, McCarthy was co-opted and his whole movement. McCarthyism didn't go far enough and didn't identify the leading players.

Marks stated: “We were the ones that wrote the speeches for McCarthy back in West Virginia that started his build- up into the famous anti-Communist that he is today. Our pressure on the press resulted in his getting as much attention as he has. In return for this build-up he agreed not to call up or expose Jews in the Communist movement by the investigations through his sub-committee.”

Mr. Marks stated that a lot of Jews called McCarthy an anti-Semite but little did they know that “he is the best friend the Jews ever had.”

[Hooker noted of McCarthy that “Eventually they destroyed him anyway when he started calling up Jewish Communists later on.”—Ed.]

 

[Ledo]

Unfortunately, McCarthy was co-opted and his whole movement. McCarthyism didn't go far enough and didn't identify the leading players.

I don't doubt any of that. In fact at this point, you could get me to believe almost any historical period or event was nothing but an orchestrated gambit/operation to maneuver people and resources into place for the purpose of subjugating our power base and eventually assuming full control. Those involved probably road a spectrum from completely traitorous, fully willful involvement sliding all the way over to blissfully unaware ignorance as they carried out their controllers objectives. I hear that intel operatives sometimes never know really what the hell they are working on so the typical bureaucrat or pol was probably clueless unless somebody like McCarthy got ornery and they had to give him the treatment.

As an aside, I really hate the puke George Clooney playing the brave and virtous jouno taking down the "vile McCarthy". I promise you these Hollywood scumbags know most of the real truth and they are pure traitors.

BTW, really great stuff posted on the forum from you P, so thank you.

 

[lvysaur]

Basically at the same level England was in the 70s with its anti gay propaganda law.

This is one area where Westerners are implicitly propagandized--equating current conditions with past conditions.

For example, when the media frenzied over rape in India a few years ago, there was a lot of attention paid to spousal rape laws, or rather the Indian lack of them.
Only when you did some reading did you find out that the majority of these laws in Europe were only mandated in the 2000s or late 90s.

Meaning that the so-called "sexist/homophobic/misogynist" nation they are blaming, is often just identical to their own country 10-20 years in the past.

 

[Oleg]

Western and Eastern leadership in on the fix together. But for the plebs, they create the illusion that it is either the Wuhan virus or CIA virus as pretext for WW3, which will be used to finish off many of us (depopulation).

View attachment 25548

The pictures of Putin you posted at the WWII Jewish memorial supposed to be something “we should be aware about “? Russia is multi cultural, multi ethnic, multi religion society. It would be plain stupid not to acknowledge that.

 

[yourke]

I've read in Singapore they're waiting hours in line to get their sinovac( NON mRNA vaccine) ,they know what's up. Whereas here people want to get a mRNA vaccine for whatever reason .

Most people in Singapore want Pfizer, Sinovac is not approved (emergency) by the government. Maybe pro-china want sinovac

 

[Missenger]

The pictures of Putin you posted at the WWII Jewish memorial supposed to be something “we should be aware about “? Russia is multi cultural, multi ethnic, multi religion society. It would be plain stupid not to acknowledge that.

So he's jewish?

 

[BearWithMe]

Interesting. Can you give details to clarify your opinion. I am very curious.

There are many ways to gauge actual freedom in a society - overal mood in the society and happines of the citizens, actual freedom of speech (measured by people's willingness to speak), freedom of traveling (without being harrased by some governmental agency), freedom not to udnertake medical interventions, percentage of imprisoned people in populace, freedom to buy things (number of things that needs special authorization to buy), how (un)regulated local cops are and public opinion on cops, how many taxes there are and how high they are...

Americans are consistetntly failing in all of them, except for the freedom of buying things - that's European speciality as here you need special permission to buy even toilet paper.

 

[Asya_D]

I'm a Russian immigrant (living in Michigan), just got here to Moscow a few days ago. I've been living in the US for the last 10 years and want to consider myself quite open-minded, observing-type (given that I grew up in Japan, I'm not an avid patriot - just to give you a better picture of my perspectives).

Having said that, I do agree and feel that Russia currently has more freedom than the US. The amount of censorship that social media platform currently exercises in the US - I'm sorry, fellow Americans, but that's right up China's alley.
Most Americans are so brainwashed with the Covid propaganda (I do agree the virus is real, but my opinion is that it's mostly political agenda), that I can't even express doubts out laud. Russians don't believe in their government or what authoritarian figure says - they were f*cked by the system too many times, so yes, they are not running to get jabs, they question why the agenda is pushed so hard.
***
Putin did say multiple times that vaccination can't be mandatory. But the local governors are not following his lead (there is a theory that they are backed by Western money), and what Sobyanin, Moscow mayor did, is a good example: he implemented QR code system to dine-in at the restaurants - those who are vaccinated (QR code) can dine-in, but if you don't have one - stay on the veranda. This rule came into effect in mid-June, and what do you know? People stopped dining-in at the restaurants. So starting today - all QR code system is cancelled.
"60% of service people were vaccinated, so we can open up now" - they explained on the news. Riiiiiiight.