Magnoil - Liquid Magnesium

[haidut]

This would be interesting for long term system imbalances. It takes months for fresh grown finger nail to grow from bed to clippable, though, so it'd a slow way to monitor supplement effects.

In my experience, pregnenolone/DHEA really speeds up their growth as does biotin. Androsterone makes them grow like crazy, almost troublingly fast

 

[haidut]

I've been taking Magnoil for a little over a week now; a full dose divided between early a.m. and early evening and have experienced the following effects:
- improved glucose control. It has eliminated the reactive hypoglycemia I almost always experience after lunch and dinner.
- no more stiff legs. Over the past 10 months or so I've had constant really stiff legs, mostly around the hamstring area and sometimes my thighs too. I've tried Mag chloride spray, which helped some near the surface but not deep into the legs, and Magnoil has completely eliminated all stiffness. I can do leg stretches much more easily now.
- less thirst. Sometimes my thirst is insatiable, but since starting Magnoil I don't feel the need to drink nearly as much water.

I've not had any negative effects so far, except maybe a little more sleepy in the evening.

I'm going to try reducing to 1/2 dose daily and see how things go with that.

Amazing feedback, thanks so much! I think after a week or so of using the full 20 drop dose the tissues get replenished and then a much lower dose of 5-10 drops daily can be used, which of course makes the bottle last much longer

 

[haidut]

So I've been experimenting with this off and on lately. I wanted to relate an experience I had yesterday. I upped my caffeine dose from 200 mg 2x/day to 400 mg 2x/day and had a bit of a caffeinism episode. I was getting insomnia, hearing voices, seeing things with eyes closed, restless legs, uneasy feeling. I wanted to know if this was adrenaline or electrolyte related so I applied 2 drops of magnoil to my torso, and I felt much better. I feel asleep within a few minutes.

Unfortunately, I do get some side effects from this, which is typical of magnesium supplementation for me.
Hemorrhoids
Fatigue, irritability, trouble getting up in the morning
Sore joints
Stools a little too loose for a day or two but a tolerance builds to this

Caffeine and T3 seem to balance these side effects out pretty well. It seems to be pretty dopaminergic and increases arousal especially upon waking. It also lowers my body temp for some reason, but my metabolism is not optimal right now because of thyroid resistance, so take that for what you will. I typically take 1-2 drops and that is enough for me to get effects.

Thank you for the honest feedback! At least we know for sure it is absorbing well as the loose stools is perhaps the one unmistakable sign of extra magnesium in the organism. Either lower dose or using around meals with more calcium in them seems to help reduce at least the bowel frequency effect.

 

[Wagner83]

In my experience, pregnenolone/DHEA really speeds up their growth as does biotin. Androsterone makes them grow like crazy, almost troublingly fast

Intriguing, I wondered in the past if some younger lads can have very fast nail growth because of running on adrenal hormones rather than testicular..

 

[haidut]

Intriguing, I wondered in the past if some younger lads can have very fast nail growth because of running on adrenal hormones rather than testicular..

I think both DHEA and gonadal androgens like T/DHT and androsterone increase nail growth. Since nails are mostly collagen, their growth is probably a good surrogate/biomarker of bone health/anabolism and it is well known that androgens are anabolic for the bone. I would go as far as to say that hair/nail growth is a good surrogate for metabolic health and anabolism in general as their speed of growth is also indicative of rates of protein synthesis. Peat said repeatedly that men with strong bones are very virile, which is not surprising because osteocalcin (produced in the bones) potently stimulates androgen synthesis.

 

[TheHound]

I think both DHEA and gonadal androgens like T/DHT and androsterone increase nail growth. Since nails are mostly collagen, their growth is probably a good surrogate/biomarker of bone health/anabolism and it is well known that androgens are anabolic for the bone. I would go as far as to say that hair/nail growth is a good surrogate for metabolic health and anabolism in general as their speed of growth is also indicative of rates of protein synthesis. Peat said repeatedly that men with strong bones are very virile, which is not surprising because osteocalcin (produced in the bones) potently stimulates androgen synthesis.

interesting. what if this is paired with overall thin/receded hair? My nails grow extremely fast, as does my head and facial hair. however the hair on the top of my head grows in thinner and is receded but still grows very fast

 

[haidut]

interesting. what if this is paired with overall thin/receded hair? My nails grow extremely fast, as does my head and facial hair. however the hair on the top of my head grows in thinner and is receded but still grows very fast

I would test cortisol/prolactin/PTH.

 

[Greg says]

Just got some Magnoil and tried 40 drops couple evenings ago) rubbed into my abdomen and had an amazing nights sleep with deep rich dreams. Woke with a strong bowel movement and have felt more calm than usual. Also feel less achy and stiff in my muscles. Bar far the best magnesium supplement I've ever used. Think I was deficient as stress uses up so much magnesium.

 

[haidut]

Just got some Magnoil and tried 40 drops couple evenings ago) rubbed into my abdomen and had an amazing nights sleep with deep rich dreams. Woke with a strong bowel movement and have felt more calm than usual. Also feel less achy and stiff in my muscles. Bar far the best magnesium supplement I've ever used. Think I was deficient as stress uses up so much magnesium.

Excellent, thanks for the great feedback! I think for most people after a week or so at 20-40 drops daily there appears to be saturation of tissues and much lower dose can be used. Otherwise the bowel movements seem to become too frequent.

 

[loess]

I think it's probably fair to say that most people who have experienced a period of ups and downs during a long period (at least several years) of self-experimentation surrounding Peat's work will at some point recognize the absolutely crucial role that magnesium plays in the production of energy at the cellular level, and the astounding number of biological processes that require the tissues to be constantly replenished with magnesium. As such, I've invested considerably in purchasing quite a lot of epsom salt and magnesium chloride over these last few years and have diligently (sometimes it's almost felt more like "invasively") altered my lifestyle and my free time to try to keep up with my body's need for magnesium by taking frequent epsom salt baths with added baking soda, attempting to dissolve magnesium chloride in vodka and using it as a spray to apply topically, and making magnesium bi-carbonate water from time to time. All of those efforts have gobbled up a lot of time and money, to say the least, and even then I've only been able to achieve what feels like adequate tissue saturation of magnesium on a fleeting basis.

After experimenting with Magnoil over these last few weeks, I'm absolutely sold on the product. Applying 10-20 drops daily on my ankles, shoulders/neck, or wrists all have produced nearly immediate feelings of slight sedation, tension release and various other feelings and sensations that I can't really articulate other than that they I recognize them as "familiar" with regard to magnesium, having experienced them in conjunction with epsom salt baths. Like others here I've also noticed a pattern of deeper and more restorative sleep, especially when applying the Magnoil just before bed.

I have had a couple of instances where I dosed a total of 40 drops in a day (two doses of 20) that knocked me into a level of fatigue both mentally and physically that was uncomfortable and long-lasting throughout a day. I think for me, multiple applications in smaller amounts seem to work better. Other than that I haven't really observed any downsides.

Haidut, I'm really impressed with your research efforts in finding a magnesium salt that cooperates with a solvent in such a way that transdermal application is both practical and efficient. Of all of your products' many uses, I can see a consistent and indefinite re-order cycle for myself for this one, and I'm relieved to finally liberate myself from the hassle and expense of purchasing such a large quantity of epsom salt at the consumer/retail level.

 

[haidut]

I think it's probably fair to say that most people who have experienced a period of ups and downs during a long period (at least several years) of self-experimentation surrounding Peat's work will at some point recognize the absolutely crucial role that magnesium plays in the production of energy at the cellular level, and the astounding number of biological processes that require the tissues to be constantly replenished with magnesium. As such, I've invested considerably in purchasing quite a lot of epsom salt and magnesium chloride over these last few years and have diligently (sometimes it's almost felt more like "invasively") altered my lifestyle and my free time to try to keep up with my body's need for magnesium by taking frequent epsom salt baths with added baking soda, attempting to dissolve magnesium chloride in vodka and using it as a spray to apply topically, and making magnesium bi-carbonate water from time to time. All of those efforts have gobbled up a lot of time and money, to say the least, and even then I've only been able to achieve what feels like adequate tissue saturation of magnesium on a fleeting basis.

After experimenting with Magnoil over these last few weeks, I'm absolutely sold on the product. Applying 10-20 drops daily on my ankles, shoulders/neck, or wrists all have produced nearly immediate feelings of slight sedation, tension release and various other feelings and sensations that I can't really articulate other than that they I recognize them as "familiar" with regard to magnesium, having experienced them in conjunction with epsom salt baths. Like others here I've also noticed a pattern of deeper and more restorative sleep, especially when applying the Magnoil just before bed.

I have had a couple of instances where I dosed a total of 40 drops in a day (two doses of 20) that knocked me into a level of fatigue both mentally and physically that was uncomfortable and long-lasting throughout a day. I think for me, multiple applications in smaller amounts seem to work better. Other than that I haven't really observed any downsides.

Haidut, I'm really impressed with your research efforts in finding a magnesium salt that cooperates with a solvent in such a way that transdermal application is both practical and efficient. Of all of your products' many uses, I can see a consistent and indefinite re-order cycle for myself for this one, and I'm relieved to finally liberate myself from the hassle and expense of purchasing such a large quantity of epsom salt at the consumer/retail level.

Thank you so much for the kind words and feedback!
For what it's worth, as I mentioned in other responses above, after about a week or so at 20-30 drops daily usage most people seem to be able to scale down and get by on 10 drops or less daily as the magnesium stores seem to have been replenished and going forward just have to be maintained. So, with such usage the bottle should last a lot longer than one month, which brings the cost down even more.

 

[yerrag]

Regular blood tests for magnesium are probably not very reliable as magnesium is an intracellular element and should not be in the blood in high amounts. RBC magnesium is a better marker and I think @Dan Wich has some providers on his website that offer it.

I would like to use this test from Potassium Nutrition in Heart Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Gout, Diabetes, and Metabolic Shock, by Charles E. Weber, MS, 2011 location 1703 (Kindle ebook):

A test for magnesium deficiency is to inject 2.4 milligrams of magnesium per kilogram of body weight over 4 hours and urine collected for 24 hours. If 25% of the magnesium is retained a deficiency is probable. If 50% of the magnesium is retained a deficiency is certain [Rude]

Rude RK1998 Magnesium deficiency: A cause of heterogenous disease in humans, Journal of Bone and Mineral Research 13(4):749-758.

@haidut Instead of injecting magnesium, which is more troublesome, wouldn't it be more practical to apply topically with Magnoil, and use this method to test for magnesium deficiency?

So, if I weigh 68 kg, I would need 163 mg of elemental magnesium, or 1884mg of Magnoil, and apply it over 4 hours. And then collect my urine over 24 hours, and submit my urine to a lab to test for magnesium. Probably, I'd need to do a before intake test as well to establish a baseline.

Wouldn't this be a practical and useful test for magnesium deficiency using Magnoil. I assume Magnoil to be 100% absorbable.

Another thing is that I understand that magnesium sulfate is used for the IV. I wouldn't want to be injected with that much sulfate, it's a strong acidic load on the body.

 

[haidut]

I would like to use this test from Potassium Nutrition in Heart Disease, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Gout, Diabetes, and Metabolic Shock, by Charles E. Weber, MS, 2011 location 1703 (Kindle ebook):

A test for magnesium deficiency is to inject 2.4 milligrams of magnesium per kilogram of body weight over 4 hours and urine collected for 24 hours. If 25% of the magnesium is retained a deficiency is probable. If 50% of the magnesium is retained a deficiency is certain [Rude]

Rude RK1998 Magnesium deficiency: A cause of heterogenous disease in humans, Journal of Bone and Mineral Research 13(4):749-758.

@haidut Instead of injecting magnesium, which is more troublesome, wouldn't it be more practical to apply topically with Magnoil, and use this method to test for magnesium deficiency?

So, if I weigh 68 kg, I would need 163 mg of elemental magnesium, or 1884mg of Magnoil, and apply it over 4 hours. And then collect my urine over 24 hours, and submit my urine to a lab to test for magnesium. Probably, I'd need to do a before intake test as well to establish a baseline.

Wouldn't this be a practical and useful test for magnesium deficiency using Magnoil. I assume Magnoil to be 100% absorbable.

Another thing is that I understand that magnesium sulfate is used for the IV. I wouldn't want to be injected with that much sulfate, it's a strong acidic load on the body.

I am not sure this test is reliable as it does not take into account magnesium lost in sweat and other bodily fluids. The RBC and nail tests are probably the most reliable, but you should be able to use Magnoil to replicate this study if you want.

 

[Dolomite]

I just received my order today. Since Wednesday I have had some muscle spasms in my lower trapezius. I used one drop and rubbed it in and took a short walk. It seems to have worked.

I am like @loess and have tried many versions of magnesium. I hope to have great success with this.

 

[haidut]

I just received my order today. Since Wednesday I have had some muscle spasms in my lower trapezius. I used one drop and rubbed it in and took a short walk. It seems to have worked.

I am like @loess and have tried many versions of magnesium. I hope to have great success with this.

Awesome! Glad it is helping so far and please keep me posted.

 

[yerrag]

I am not sure this test is reliable as it does not take into account magnesium lost in sweat and other bodily fluids. The RBC and nail tests are probably the most reliable, but you should be able to use Magnoil to replicate this study if you want.

It's good to know Magnoil application could be used as an alternative to IV infusion of magnesium.

From Office of Dietary Supplements - Magnesium :

Assessing magnesium status is difficult because most magnesium is inside cells or in bone [3]. The most commonly used and readily available method for assessing magnesium status is measurement of serum magnesium concentration, even though serum levels have little correlation with total body magnesium levels or concentrations in specific tissues [6]. Other methods for assessing magnesium status include measuring magnesium concentrations in erythrocytes, saliva, and urine; measuring ionized magnesium concentrations in blood, plasma, or serum; and conducting a magnesium-loading (or “tolerance”) test. No single method is considered satisfactory [7]. Some experts [4] but not others [3] consider the tolerance test (in which urinary magnesium is measured after parenteral infusion of a dose of magnesium) to be the best method to assess magnesium status in adults. To comprehensively evaluate magnesium status, both laboratory tests and a clinical assessment might be required [6].

I guess there really is no agreement as to what is the best method on assessing magnesium deficiency. But I think there is little question as to which is the most affordable. It may be better to have a test done affordably that stands a good chance of giving a good assessment than not having one done at all because it's not affordable.

 

[haidut]

I guess there really is no agreement as to what is the best method on assessing magnesium deficiency

Yep, unfortunately there isn't. I think the RBC and nail tests are the closest we have right now.

 

[yerrag]

Yep, unfortunately there isn't. I think the RBC and nail tests are the closest we have right now.

What exactly does a nail test involve? Yes, Ray Peat says it might be better, but is there a reference?

As far as the parenteral method (or the Magnoil method ) goes, you have a point with sweat excretion of magnesium being unaccounted for. So, if sweat excretion is unaccounted for, it would have the effect of giving an error bias towards lessening the reported urinary excretion of magnesium, or towards increasing the reported retention of magnesium. In effect, it would have a bias towards a false positive of magnesium deficiency.

Since the test has some latitude for personal interpretation (if retention is 25%, probable; if 50% certain), it still allows for some error. Still, the RBC test is still based on a rule of thumb approach as well. It's acknowledged that the RBC doesn't fully reflect the body store of magnesium, and the rule of thumb is to conclude magnesium deficiency status when the RBC magnesium is on a certain lower value range.

I hope the nail test is superior in the nail test reflecting fully the magnesium store status in the body. But, again, there is no widely available nail test and it is still costly. I seem to get the feeling that since magnesium is so vital to our health, that we are mostly consigned to not take any magnesium test at all - simply because there is no perfect test. And if there was one, it is so expensive and if not so, it is unavailable.

The tendency is to get into a situation where we don't see evil, we don't think there is evil. So we don't act on it.

Can we assume then, for practical purposes, that the evil exists, and that we have magnesium deficiency, as a default? Rather than thinking we are magnesium sufficient by default? I think many of us are going to be alarmed going this route, for fear of supplementing too much magnesium causing magnesium excess, and then have fatal outcomes.

It becomes a matter now of being in a rock and a hard place. So, the question is, how to we get out of this logjam?

My answer to that is to not try to find perfect. Just approximate. Get an idea of your magnesium status, even if the test isn't perfect. If you're being cautious to not supplement magnesium simply because your are crossing your fingers hoping you're not.

I, myself, just assume by default I'm magnesium deficient. When I think to my past and think how much magnesium I'm getting through my food, there is no chance at all that I'm not magnesium deficient. So, I'm on therapeutic magnesium to the tune of 1200mg elemental magnesium daily for six months. After that, I'll taper down to 400 mg elemental magnesium- a maintenance mode. I'm using magnesium bicarbonate, after a bad outcome of as much magnesium for 5 months using magnesium chloride.

I still think that for the more adventurous in us that want to get a low-cost way of determining magnesium status, using Magnoil as part of a test through urine magnesium would be helpful.

Just want to add, if say, you're extremely magnesium deficient, and you don't know about it and you're just going around in circles taking this and that supplement to do avail, and half your life you've been in this rut, how will you ever get out of this if you don't know you're magnesium deficient, or you're hoping you're not deficient. If you take the Magnoil test, and you get a retention of 60%, would you still doubt that you are magnesium deficient? Let's say the false positive error is +10%, it wouldn't matter anymore, would it, since you're off the scale already. You're 110% positive for magnesium deficiency!

What does this say about the Magnoil-Urine Magnesium test? It says that it will benefit definitely those who are extremely magnesium deficient, who can benefit from magnesium supplementation, without which many conditions or ailments they have may likely not be resolved. If extremely magnesium deficient and staying put and doing nothing just because there are no perfect tests available to determine their status, one is never going to get out of this magnesium-deficient hell-hole.

 

[yerrag]

I just thought how much l-pidolate would be introduced to the body with this method. I wonder if this would have any untoward effect.

 

[haidut]

I just thought how much l-pidolate would be introduced to the body with this method. I wonder if this would have any untoward effect.

The amount would be less than a single dose of Cardenosine. The Cardenosine thread has more info on L-PGA and what it does.