Amazoniac

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I have only one account on this forum. If you look at the postings of all of those people they are so diverse and obviously written by different people.
And yes, pidolic acid is absorbed through the skin. Some of it may get metabolized into GABA or even succinic acid depending on what enzymes are available in the skin, but most of it gets through unchanged when dissolved in DMSO.
Zeus, there would be nothing wrong with that, I have various of them for the giveaways.

The question of intact absorption is because it might have a greater chance of interfering with glutamate this way, a temporary inhibition for example.
 

Makrosky

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Maybe haidut has tried decent doses of only l-pyroglutamic acid and compared the effects with those of Magnoil?
 
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haidut

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Maybe haidut has tried decent doses of only l-pyroglutamic acid and compared the effects with those of Magnoil?

I have. The pyroglutamic acid is much more stimulating and eventually gives me headache if used for several days. Magnoil does not do that but I feel it increases motivation somehow, which regular magnesium does not do for me.
 

Amazoniac

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Jokes aside, if the absorption is intact, maybe pidolate has an affinity for brain and carries magnesium along. Perhaps there's something related to a faster appearance in circulation or skipping the liver as well. But if it wasn't an even distribution, people would not report loose stools; all tissues must be getting some.

I don't want to be unfair here, I know there was plenty of effort to deliver the best possible supplement, requiring months of testing. The pidolate form isn't cheap either, so I'm sure you has good reasons for choosing it over others. And near complete absorption regardless of the dose is no easy feat for a supplement.

In the description you never denied that other ingredients are playing a rôle, but what I wonder is how great is the magnesium contribution or what's the difference in metabolism to explain the experiences.

I can understand for example 60 mg of magnesium delivered through skin for someone with lower intakes making a difference, but just search for the absorption from mineral waters alone (without considering diet) and you'll realize why I'm surprised. They often use waters with decent magnesium content for that, like up to 200 mg/l but usually much less, and it's possible to screen for experiments that base on what you consider to be a good marker for utilization: most of them will be agreeing that they're quite effective. What I mean by this is that people who aren't active in trying to increase their magnesium intake already get that much without difficulty.

When you add to the story Raj's magnesium bicarbonate water for example, that is able to provide 1400 mg/l (Wich, 2016), you can get way more than that with just a few separate gulps.

By the way, I suspect that the unabsorbed fraction of magnesium can accentuate people's tendencies towards constipation or diarrhea. Topical has an advantage in this regard.

Therefore it appears to me that it can't be a difference in the amount adsorbed, it has to be something else that might affect how magnesium is treated in the body (assuming it's not a coadjuvant). What do you think that can change in its metabolism when taken as your supplement?
 
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haidut

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Jokes aside, if the absorption is intact, maybe pidolate has an affinity for brain and carries magnesium along. Perhaps there's something related to a faster appearance in circulation or skipping the liver as well. But if it wasn't an even distribution, people would not report loose stools; all tissues must be getting some.

I don't want to be unfair here, I know there was plenty of effort to deliver the best possible supplement, requiring months of testing. The pidolate form isn't cheap either, so I'm sure you has good reasons for choosing it over others. And near complete absorption regardless of the dose is no easy feat for a supplement.

In the description you never denied that other ingredients are playing a rôle, but what I wonder is how great is the magnesium contribution or what's the difference in metabolism to explain the experiences.

I can understand for example 60 mg of magnesium delivered through skin for someone with lower intakes making a difference, but just search for the absorption from mineral waters alone (without considering diet) and you'll realize why I'm surprised. They often use waters with decent magnesium content for that, like up to 200 mg/l but usually much less, and it's possible to screen for experiments that base on what you consider to be a good marker for utilization: most of them will be agreeing that they're quite effective. What I mean by this is that people who aren't active in trying to increase their magnesium intake already get that much without difficulty.

When you add to the story Raj's magnesium bicarbonate water for example, that is able to provide 1400 mg/l (Wich, 2016), you can get way more than that with just a few separate gulps.

By the way, I suspect that the unabsorbed fraction of magnesium can accentuate people's tendencies towards constipation or diarrhea. Topical has an advantage in this regard.

Therefore it appears to me that it can't be a difference in the amount adsorbed, it has to be something else that might affect how magnesium is treated in the body (assuming it's not a coadjuvant). What do you think that can change in its metabolism when taken as your supplement?

Pyroglutamic acid is a GABA analog and has been shown to enhance transdermal absorption even on its own, without DMSO. It is also pretty close structurally to the *cetam drugs, and those have also been shown to increase uptake and effects of chemicals they are co-administered with. Usually, things that enhance transdermal absorption increase cellular uptake too. Since it also increases ATP levels, and magnesium retention is dependent on ATP, it may just help even a small amount of magnesium stay in the body much longer. The combination of these factors can make a low dose go a long way. For example, when IV magnesium is given often the dose is just 100mg and it still has very pronounced effects. So, maybe the combination of pyroglutamic acid and DMSO approximate IV route well and as such the effects of much lower doses can be felt.
 

Amazoniac

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Pyroglutamic acid is a GABA analog and has been shown to enhance transdermal absorption even on its own, without DMSO. It is also pretty close structurally to the *cetam drugs, and those have also been shown to increase uptake and effects of chemicals they are co-administered with. Usually, things that enhance transdermal absorption increase cellular uptake too. Since it also increases ATP levels, and magnesium retention is dependent on ATP, it may just help even a small amount of magnesium stay in the body much longer. The combination of these factors can make a low dose go a long way. For example, when IV magnesium is given often the dose is just 100mg and it still has very pronounced effects. So, maybe the combination of pyroglutamic acid and DMSO approximate IV route well and as such the effects of much lower doses can be felt.
Zeus, I don't think the amount absorbed is relevant here, it's something else. If anything, it's the rate that it appears in the body because usual magnesium absorption starts after 1 hour or so of ingestion but after 6 hours it's still possible to detect such activity. Compare this with your supplement or intravenous dosing (which is either given as bolus or in doses that are enough to maintain a normal concentration of magnesium in the bloody). I'm not sure if rapid appearance is desirable other than in emergencies, they often use the sulfate form, and I don't know how great is its contribution to sedation.

The increase in ATP sounds like a good explanation. How do you interpret the following?

a. Effects of supplementation with different Mg salts in cells: Is there a clue? (!)

It didn't have anything special to its performance in various isolated cells when compared to chloride or sulfate.
It might be because of closed system or something like that, but pidolic acid appears to consume ATP (rather than generate) in all steps until it forms glutamate, at least directly:

b. Pyroglutamic acid: Throwing light on a lightly studied metabolite
↳ [4] Enzymatic Conversion of 5-Oxo-L-Proline (L-Pyrrolidone Carboxylate) to L-Glutamate Coupled with Cleavage of Adenosine Triphosphate to Adenosine Diphosphate, a Reaction in the γ-Glutamyl Cycle
Take milk_lover's case for example:

"Personally I feel this is a great product in general. But doing it a lot or large doses can interfere with calcium metabolism. I think calcium from milk leans my face and too much magnesium bloats my face and body. Unless you drink a lot of milk, I don't see why you would want to take large doses of this product because it's potent. Excess magnesium, especially with low dietary consumption of calcium or excess of phosphate, increases the conversion from vitamin D to the active form, calcitriol, which can increase serotonin in the brain. Serotonin tends to cause bone loss, increasing parathyroid hormone."​

How likely it is that magnesium is the responsible here? Even if it was being injected (the lower single doses in that link are about 200 mg, but often way more), I could never imagine it happening. Especially considering that it's supposed to be complexing with ATP, giving an energy boost, and not hover around antagonizing other nutrients.

This leaves us with DMSO. I wonder how a version with and without differ from each other in terms of effects. You have both available, right?

Unrelated, but unabsorbed magnesium from the intestines is not great, it can be lumped with tryptophan and iron as crucial growth factors for microbes; and region that most of the absorption occurs is beyond the middle of the small intestine.
 
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Zeus, I don't think the amount absorbed is relevant here, it's something else. If anything, it's the rate that it appears in the body because usual magnesium absorption starts after 1 hour or so of ingestion but after 6 hours it's still possible to detect such activity. Compare this with your supplement or intravenous dosing (which is either given as bolus or in doses that are enough to maintain a normal concentration of magnesium in the bloody). I'm not sure if rapid appearance is desirable other than in emergencies, they often use the sulfate form, and I don't know how great is its contribution to sedation.

The increase in ATP sounds like a good explanation. How do you interpret the following?

a. Effects of supplementation with different Mg salts in cells: Is there a clue? (!)

It didn't have anything special to its performance in various isolated cells when compared to chloride or sulfate.
It might be because of closed system or something like that, but pidolic acid appears to consume ATP (rather than generate) in all steps until it forms glutamate, at least directly:

b. Pyroglutamic acid: Throwing light on a lightly studied metabolite
↳ [4] Enzymatic Conversion of 5-Oxo-L-Proline (L-Pyrrolidone Carboxylate) to L-Glutamate Coupled with Cleavage of Adenosine Triphosphate to Adenosine Diphosphate, a Reaction in the γ-Glutamyl Cycle
Take milk_lover's case for example:

"Personally I feel this is a great product in general. But doing it a lot or large doses can interfere with calcium metabolism. I think calcium from milk leans my face and too much magnesium bloats my face and body. Unless you drink a lot of milk, I don't see why you would want to take large doses of this product because it's potent. Excess magnesium, especially with low dietary consumption of calcium or excess of phosphate, increases the conversion from vitamin D to the active form, calcitriol, which can increase serotonin in the brain. Serotonin tends to cause bone loss, increasing parathyroid hormone."​

How likely it is that magnesium is the responsible here? Even if it was being injected (the lower single doses in that link are about 200 mg, but often way more), I could never imagine it happening. Especially considering that it's supposed to be complexing with ATP, giving an energy boost, and not hover around antagonizing other nutrients.

This leaves us with DMSO. I wonder how a version with and without differ from each other in terms of effects. You have both available, right?

Unrelated, but unabsorbed magnesium from the intestines is not great, it can be lumped with tryptophan and iron as crucial growth factors for microbes; and region that most of the absorption occurs is beyond the middle of the small intestine.

There is some evidence that magnesium conjugated with an amino acid accumulates preferentially in tissues (as opposed to serum), especially the brain. Considering that pidolate targets the brain more than any other amino acid, this could be the reason for the enhanced effects.
Magnesium - Beyond Bioavailability: Bioaccumulation in the Brain 1.2-Fold Higher for Mg-Taurate | No Effect on Muscle - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone
 

Amazoniac

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There is some evidence that magnesium conjugated with an amino acid accumulates preferentially in tissues (as opposed to serum), especially the brain. Considering that pidolate targets the brain more than any other amino acid, this could be the reason for the enhanced effects.
Magnesium - Beyond Bioavailability: Bioaccumulation in the Brain 1.2-Fold Higher for Mg-Taurate | No Effect on Muscle - SuppVersity: Nutrition and Exercise Science for Everyone
Thanks to you. What about the loose stools even with low doses if the brain is prioritized?

- Magnesium deficiency: Possible role in osteoporosis associated with gluten-sensitive enteropathy

upload_2019-1-31_19-19-52.png

Even though muscle tissues don't seem to be sacrificed, the dose used was equivalent to 400 mg for a 70 kg guru; I find it more likely that the brain effects in your product are mainly from pidolate.
 
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Lovestain

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There has been some discussion as to how to assess true magnesium status.
The method I use is urinary ph. Magnesium is a major buffer in the urine. I test the first morning urine and aim for a ph of 7. Invariably lower than this ties in with a lot of subjective sensations of magnesium deficiency.. cramps, poor sleep, low mood, lowered libido.. Etc
When I start to push beyond upwards of 7 it coincides with symptoms I get of what feels like excess magnesium: fast heart/stress response.
I have been using an ionised solution of magnesium Chloride. I don't get the bowel distress so maybe the stress response could be related to the Chloride?
I haven't yet tried the magnoil.
 

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I got the product and I have a question regarding the components of the Magnoil (which contains DMSO), I plan to use it on my wrists. I do take 1 drop of iodine weekly orally (lugols 2% and nascent), I read that DMSO is a NO-GO with iodine mixed together but I assume that even if I use this topical on the wrists, it shouldn't post a problem with the iodine I take orally. It's a minimal iodine dose anyways (1 drop of lugol 2 or 5% and 1 drop of nascent iodine weekly), I plan on reintroduce iodine after not having used it for 8 months.
 
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I got the product and I have a question regarding the components of the Magnoil (which contains DMSO), I plan to use it on my wrists. I do take 1 drop of iodine weekly orally (lugols 2% and nascent), I read that DMSO is a NO-GO with iodine mixed together but I assume that even if I use this topical on the wrists, it shouldn't post a problem with the iodine I take orally. It's a minimal iodine dose anyways (1 drop of lugol 2 or 5% and 1 drop of nascent iodine weekly), I plan on reintroduce iodine after not having used it for 8 months.

I have not heard of these potential issues between iodine/DMSO. You can ask a pharmacist about potential interactions and they can tell you with more certainty. Even if there are interactions, as you said, using the iodine orally and the DMSO topically should reduce the risk.
 

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Haidut,
There is sedimentation in the bottle I purchased last month and the dropper is getting clogged too. Please check the attached picture and let me know if it is usable.
image1.jpeg
 
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haidut

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Haidut,
There is sedimentation in the bottle I purchased last month and the dropper is getting clogged too. Please check the attached picture and let me know if it is usable.
View attachment 12358

It is still usable as nothing in it spoils. It probably sedimented due to the cold weather in the last few weeks. You can warm up in the microwave for 10sec and then shake and that should resolve it. Please try and let me know.
 

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It is still usable as nothing in it spoils. It probably sedimented due to the cold weather in the last few weeks. You can warm up in the microwave for 10sec and then shake and that should resolve it. Please try and let me know.

I live in India and its 34 degree Centigrade here, so its definitely not due to weather. I kept it under the shade (away from direct sunlight) in my balcony in afternoon when ambient temperature is quite high but it still has sedimentation. I am unable to use it properly because of the clogged dropper.
 

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You are correct. But the Mag Oil- mag chloride, not Magnoil- with DMSO leaves a very sticky and itchy residue which I had to wipe off before getting into bed. I don't have to do that with Magnoil.
I am actually dosing 10 drops almost every night- takes approximately 2 hours to dry smooth- as I think my sleep is much more restful with it.

Yes, and I like many of the other DMSO supplements - back when there were more - but the magnesium does not go well with it in terms of the itchiness. Maybe if it were buffered more with something.

@haidut - What do you think are the best buffers for topical minerals in terms of getting them into cells? Sugar? What makes minerals most bioavailable - or how is it they behave in food that makes food delivery of them so flawless?
 

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Just tried for the first time last night. Two drops on the forearms. Just two. Woke up at 4am cold. That never happens. I've been freezing cold all day for some reason. Feel good. Just freezing cold.
 

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I live in India and its 34 degree Centigrade here, so its definitely not due to weather. I kept it under the shade (away from direct sunlight) in my balcony in afternoon when ambient temperature is quite high but it still has sedimentation. I am unable to use it properly because of the clogged dropper.
I tried putting it in the microwave too, but the sedimentation just wouldn't go away. And the dropper is clogged too
 
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haidut

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I live in India and its 34 degree Centigrade here, so its definitely not due to weather. I kept it under the shade (away from direct sunlight) in my balcony in afternoon when ambient temperature is quite high but it still has sedimentation. I am unable to use it properly because of the clogged dropper.

We can send you a new, functioning dropper with your next order. I guess just a faulty dropper on that specific bottle.
 
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Yes, and I like many of the other DMSO supplements - back when there were more - but the magnesium does not go well with it in terms of the itchiness. Maybe if it were buffered more with something.

@haidut - What do you think are the best buffers for topical minerals in terms of getting them into cells? Sugar? What makes minerals most bioavailable - or how is it they behave in food that makes food delivery of them so flawless?

Magnesium needs ATP for proper utilization, unless DMSO is present in which case cell uptake may be good regardless.
 

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@haidut
@anyone

I am putting 10 drops on each forearm.
Covering them completely.

As soon as I smear it around my forearm gets a rush of warmness.
Then I immediately can taste it in my mouth too.
My heartbeat raises too.

What does that mean?
Do I not need more magnesium?
Or it is just absorbing well?
 

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