Magnesium Salicylate And Sodium Salicylate

haidut

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I read somewhere that Ray sent someone an email telling them that if the stomach does not get irritated by the magnesium, then other aspirin salts like magnesium and sodium salicylates would be very good to take, especially since we would be getting the benefits of both metals that are so important for health. In the US you can get magnesium salicylate from Walgreens or buy bulk powder. The Walgreens version has some unpleasant additives but after taking it for a few days I can't say that they affect me badly. One thing I did notice is that magnesium salicylate makes me very sweaty and very drowsy very fast - much more so that the equivalent amounts of magnesium and aspirin if taken in other forms. I have not tried sodium salicylate yet, but it will probably be even more thermogenic. Anyways, here are some links for people who may be interested in trying out those other aspirin salts.
http://www.friendssalonnspa.ca/catalog/ ... 648860.htm
http://www.finlandiapharmacyonline.com/ ... es%29.html
https://www.valuevalet.ca/dodds-fast-ac ... 59482.html

You can also make magnesium salicylate yourself - just mix milk of magnesia with aspirin dissolved in warm water. I have not worked out the exact amounts needed for proper reaction, but you should be getting magnesium salicylate and water as a result of the reaction (I think). Someone with more knowledge of chemistry can work this out in more detail if interested.
 
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Sodium salicylate can conveniently be made by mixing regular Aspirin with a pinch of baking soda, and waiting for the attendant effervescence to die down. Sodium salicylate is the basis for popular preparations such as Alka-Seltzer and Disprin.
 

haidut

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unexamined_whimsy said:
Sodium salicylate can conveniently be made by mixing regular Aspirin with a pinch of baking soda, and waiting for the attendant effervescence to die down. Sodium salicylate is the basis for popular preparations such as Alka-Seltzer and Disprin.

I am not sure if this is correct. Alka-Seltzer is a combination of sodium bicarbonate, acetylsalycilic cid and citric acid. Upon mixing with water I believe that citric acid (being a stronger acid by factor of about 42) reacts with the sodium bicarbonate and forms sodium citrate with some other byproducts like CO2. In the stomach, the ingredients again get metabolized to the original 3.
Maybe I am wrong, but I've read several references already that claim that this is the reaction.
Other than that, I agree with the idea of mixing baking soda with aspirin. Ray does it regularly I think. I was listing these more as sources for pills, for people who need the portability.
 

Ben

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haidut said:
unexamined_whimsy said:
Sodium salicylate can conveniently be made by mixing regular Aspirin with a pinch of baking soda, and waiting for the attendant effervescence to die down. Sodium salicylate is the basis for popular preparations such as Alka-Seltzer and Disprin.

I am not sure if this is correct. Alka-Seltzer is a combination of sodium bicarbonate, acetylsalycilic cid and citric acid. Upon mixing with water I believe that citric acid (being a stronger acid by factor of about 42) reacts with the sodium bicarbonate and forms sodium citrate with some other byproducts like CO2. In the stomach, the ingredients again get metabolized to the original 3.
Maybe I am wrong, but I've read several references already that claim that this is the reaction.
Other than that, I agree with the idea of mixing baking soda with aspirin. Ray does it regularly I think. I was listing these more as sources for pills, for people who need the portability.
What made you think RP does it regularly? I would be concerned that absorption is effected, because I know that regular acetylsalicylic acid is better absorbed in an acidic environment, I'm not sure if the same applies to a salt. Have you gotten results yourself?
 

haidut

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Ben said:
haidut said:
unexamined_whimsy said:
Sodium salicylate can conveniently be made by mixing regular Aspirin with a pinch of baking soda, and waiting for the attendant effervescence to die down. Sodium salicylate is the basis for popular preparations such as Alka-Seltzer and Disprin.

I am not sure if this is correct. Alka-Seltzer is a combination of sodium bicarbonate, acetylsalycilic cid and citric acid. Upon mixing with water I believe that citric acid (being a stronger acid by factor of about 42) reacts with the sodium bicarbonate and forms sodium citrate with some other byproducts like CO2. In the stomach, the ingredients again get metabolized to the original 3.
Maybe I am wrong, but I've read several references already that claim that this is the reaction.
Other than that, I agree with the idea of mixing baking soda with aspirin. Ray does it regularly I think. I was listing these more as sources for pills, for people who need the portability.
What made you think RP does it regularly? I would be concerned that absorption is effected, because I know that regular acetylsalicylic acid is better absorbed in an acidic environment, I'm not sure if the same applies to a salt. Have you gotten results yourself?

There was an email exchange where Ray says that he mixed soda with aspirin and got similar results to the different commercially sold salts. He also said that he takes aspirin with soda often to get even more CO2 increase than what aspirin alone would cause. Not sure if this is his primary form of aspirin but sounded like he does it often. Or at least that's how I read it:):
Regular aspirin causes a lot of stomach irritation for people with sensitive stomachs and I think it is the acetic acid that causes it, not salicylate per se. So, any other, more stabled or buffered salt should have advantage for people with sensitive gut, even if it means less absorption. There are some studies on PubMed comparing different salts, and I think sodium salicylate was the least irritating.
Anyways, just discussing some other options.
 

Ben

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haidut said:
Ben said:
haidut said:
unexamined_whimsy said:
Sodium salicylate can conveniently be made by mixing regular Aspirin with a pinch of baking soda, and waiting for the attendant effervescence to die down. Sodium salicylate is the basis for popular preparations such as Alka-Seltzer and Disprin.

I am not sure if this is correct. Alka-Seltzer is a combination of sodium bicarbonate, acetylsalycilic cid and citric acid. Upon mixing with water I believe that citric acid (being a stronger acid by factor of about 42) reacts with the sodium bicarbonate and forms sodium citrate with some other byproducts like CO2. In the stomach, the ingredients again get metabolized to the original 3.
Maybe I am wrong, but I've read several references already that claim that this is the reaction.
Other than that, I agree with the idea of mixing baking soda with aspirin. Ray does it regularly I think. I was listing these more as sources for pills, for people who need the portability.
What made you think RP does it regularly? I would be concerned that absorption is effected, because I know that regular acetylsalicylic acid is better absorbed in an acidic environment, I'm not sure if the same applies to a salt. Have you gotten results yourself?

There was an email exchange where Ray says that he mixed soda with aspirin and got similar results to the different commercially sold salts. He also said that he takes aspirin with soda often to get even more CO2 increase than what aspirin alone would cause. Not sure if this is his primary form of aspirin but sounded like he does it often. Or at least that's how I read it:):
Regular aspirin causes a lot of stomach irritation for people with sensitive stomachs and I think it is the acetic acid that causes it, not salicylate per se. So, any other, more stabled or buffered salt should have advantage for people with sensitive gut, even if it means less absorption. There are some studies on PubMed comparing different salts, and I think sodium salicylate was the least irritating.
Anyways, just discussing some other options.
RP recommends using baking soda itself to some people, so it would only be logical to combine two beneficial substances and avoid any irritation of either ones. The only possible drawback I see with sodium salicylate is absorption, which I'm not sure about.
 

Ben

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I'm having no digestive problems taking around 500 mg 3x daily of aspirin powder (I have no scale, so that's a very rough estimate, rounding up rather than rounding down) that had added baking soda to form sodium salicylate. But I don't feel anything from it, and I'm a person that's still hypothyroid, so I don't know what the significance of this is. I wonder if absorption is low. Does anyone know why aspirin is poorly absorbed in an alkaline environment, and if sodium salicylate is subject to the same means? I always add a little more baking soda than necessary because I don't want any aspirin left unreacted.
 

Philomath

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haidut said:
post 34700 I read somewhere that Ray sent someone an email telling them that if the stomach does not get irritated by the magnesium, then other aspirin salts like magnesium and sodium salicylates would be very good to take, especially since we would be getting the benefits of both metals that are so important for health. In the US you can get magnesium salicylate from Walgreens or buy bulk powder. The Walgreens version has some unpleasant additives but after taking it for a few days I can't say that they affect me badly. One thing I did notice is that magnesium salicylate makes me very sweaty and very drowsy very fast - much more so that the equivalent amounts of magnesium and aspirin if taken in other forms. I have not tried sodium salicylate yet, but it will probably be even more thermogenic. Anyways, here are some links for people who may be interested in trying out those other aspirin salts.
http://www.friendssalonnspa.ca/catalog/ ... 648860.htm
http://www.finlandiapharmacyonline.com/ ... es%29.html
https://www.valuevalet.ca/dodds-fast-ac ... 59482.html

You can also make magnesium salicylate yourself - just mix milk of magnesia with aspirin dissolved in warm water. I have not worked out the exact amounts needed for proper reaction, but you should be getting magnesium salicylate and water as a result of the reaction (I think). Someone with more knowledge of chemistry can work this out in more detail if interested.

Found this too:
http://newrootsherbal.com/product/id/1514
 
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haidut

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Philomath said:
post 103281
haidut said:
post 34700 I read somewhere that Ray sent someone an email telling them that if the stomach does not get irritated by the magnesium, then other aspirin salts like magnesium and sodium salicylates would be very good to take, especially since we would be getting the benefits of both metals that are so important for health. In the US you can get magnesium salicylate from Walgreens or buy bulk powder. The Walgreens version has some unpleasant additives but after taking it for a few days I can't say that they affect me badly. One thing I did notice is that magnesium salicylate makes me very sweaty and very drowsy very fast - much more so that the equivalent amounts of magnesium and aspirin if taken in other forms. I have not tried sodium salicylate yet, but it will probably be even more thermogenic. Anyways, here are some links for people who may be interested in trying out those other aspirin salts.
http://www.friendssalonnspa.ca/catalog/ ... 648860.htm
http://www.finlandiapharmacyonline.com/ ... es%29.html
https://www.valuevalet.ca/dodds-fast-ac ... 59482.html

You can also make magnesium salicylate yourself - just mix milk of magnesia with aspirin dissolved in warm water. I have not worked out the exact amounts needed for proper reaction, but you should be getting magnesium salicylate and water as a result of the reaction (I think). Someone with more knowledge of chemistry can work this out in more detail if interested.

Found this too:
http://newrootsherbal.com/product/id/1514

Wow, very nice! Thanks for that. It looks like this has no additives whatsoever, so it's pure magensium salicylate. You should post it in the supplements section or email Dan Wich.
 
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bmoores

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haidut said:
Philomath said:
post 103281
haidut said:
post 34700 I read somewhere that Ray sent someone an email telling them that if the stomach does not get irritated by the magnesium, then other aspirin salts like magnesium and sodium salicylates would be very good to take, especially since we would be getting the benefits of both metals that are so important for health. In the US you can get magnesium salicylate from Walgreens or buy bulk powder. The Walgreens version has some unpleasant additives but after taking it for a few days I can't say that they affect me badly. One thing I did notice is that magnesium salicylate makes me very sweaty and very drowsy very fast - much more so that the equivalent amounts of magnesium and aspirin if taken in other forms. I have not tried sodium salicylate yet, but it will probably be even more thermogenic. Anyways, here are some links for people who may be interested in trying out those other aspirin salts.
http://www.friendssalonnspa.ca/catalog/ ... 648860.htm
http://www.finlandiapharmacyonline.com/ ... es%29.html
https://www.valuevalet.ca/dodds-fast-ac ... 59482.html

You can also make magnesium salicylate yourself - just mix milk of magnesia with aspirin dissolved in warm water. I have not worked out the exact amounts needed for proper reaction, but you should be getting magnesium salicylate and water as a result of the reaction (I think). Someone with more knowledge of chemistry can work this out in more detail if interested.

Found this too:
http://newrootsherbal.com/product/id/1514

Wow, very nice! Thanks for that. It looks like this has no additives whatsoever, so it's pure magensium salicylate. You should post it in the supplements section or email Dan Wich.

I ordered some of the New Roots Magnesium Salicylate and it appears to contain microcrystalline cellulose. I emptied out the gelcap and mixed the Magnesium Salicylate, B1 and Niacinamide with Bacardi 151 and DMSO and it seemed kind of sticky after I added the Magnesium Salicylate. I'm guessing it's the cellulose causing the stickiness so looking to try similar mixture with a more pure magnesium salicylate. Does anyone know where to find a pure magnesium salicylate powder? Labdepotinc looks pretty expensive. BTW, the mixture has a sort of Bay Rum aftershave smell, in case you are going for the Caribbean pirate or Ernest Hemmingway aura.
 
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paymanz

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Any update on this?

Milk of magnesia plus aspirin yields magnesium salicylate?(maybe aspirin needs to be hydrolysed to acetic acid and salicylic acid and then mix it with sodium bicarbonate or magnesium hydroxide?)

And its magnesium is bioavailable too?
 

Sativa

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Salicylic acid + Magnesium carbonate = Magnesium salicylate

Salicylic acid + Sodium [bi]carbonate = Sodium salicylate.

Here in europe, eBay can legally sell Salicylic acid, I got 500g (pure) for a good price, I made my own sodium and magnesium salts easily.
 

Vesi

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Salicylic acid + Magnesium carbonate = Magnesium salicylate

Salicylic acid + Sodium [bi]carbonate = Sodium salicylate.

Here in europe, eBay can legally sell Salicylic acid, I got 500g (pure) for a good price, I made my own sodium and magnesium salts easily.

What amounts of salicylic acid and sodium bicarbonate you need to use to get, for example, 100mg of sodium salicylate?
 

Sativa

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What amounts of salicylic acid and sodium bicarbonate you need to use to get ... sodium salicylate?

I found someone's notes from a pyro forum (apparently NaSalicylate is used in fireworks) and simply adjusted the quantities, to something manageable.

My faded post-it note says I used 138 grams of salicylic acid from the drugstore and 84 grams of baking soda.
This yielded 160 (theoretical) grams of sodium salicylate, 18 grams of CO2, and 48 grams of water.

...I dissolved the baking soda in warm water, and added the salicylic acid bit by bit.
Several additions were made, allowing the production of gas to stop in between to prevent overflowing.

I used a more manageable 1.38g Salicylic acid, and 0.84g magnesium carbonate.

[note: I didn't adjust the weight to account for the different molar mass of MgCO³ compared to NaHCO³]

I dosed the end result as I felt. I wasn't following strict rules. I probably remake the fresh salt every few days. With magnesium, the solution turns black over time (perhaps due to an oxidation reaction, not sure).

I made the sodium salt first, but it didn't feel ok re digestion, so I opted for Mg instead; good opportunity to get magnesium too!

I want to say it's not rocket science, but apparently, it is lol!
 
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Vesi

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I found someone's notes from a pyro forum (apparently NaSalicylate is used in fireworks) and simply adjusted the quantities, to something manageable.



I used a more manageable 1.38g Salicylic acid, and 0.84g magnesium carbonate.

[note: I didn't adjust the weight to account for the different molar mass of MgCO³ compared to NaHCO³]

I dosed the end result as I felt. I wasn't following strict rules. I probably remake the fresh salt every few days. With magnesium, the solution turns black over time (perhaps due to an oxidation reaction, not sure).

I made the sodium salt first, but it didn't feel ok re digestion, so I opted for Mg instead; good opportunity to get magnesium too!

I want to say it's not rocket science, but apparently, it is lol!

Thanks!
 

Sativa

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I made the sodium salt first, but it didn't feel ok re digestion, so I opted for Mg instead

I've now opted to have both the Magnesium & Sodium salt forms (of salicylic acid) for different times, since (like haidut said) the Mg contributes sedation/drowsiness/relaxation (Magnesium acts as a natural 'cushion' on glutamate neurons, aka NMDA antagonist).

I'll be making the Calcium Salicylate salt soon, using Calcium Carbonate.
I might try using organic egg shells as a source of calcium... = egg shell mineral salicylate salts!

Note that calcium acts in an 'opposite' way to magnesium on glutamate signalling, calcium is an NMDA agonist (Mono-Sodium Glutamate shares this excitatory property); Ca also stimulates cannabinoid signalling.

[+edit+]
I will also combine my salicylate salt dose with 1mg vitamin K2 roughly per 100mg of salicylic acid.

Extra relevant insight from haidut on improving salicylic acid digestion & absorption:

I posted a study earlier on co-administration of glycine improving the absorption of aspirin. It looks like it also prevents the negative GI symptoms of aspirin intake in some people.
The ratio needed is 2:1 in favor of aspirin, which means that if you are taking 1g of aspirin, you need to take 500mg of glycine with it.
...
...glycine exerts most of its actions at "surprisingly" low doses of 500mg-1,000mg a day.
 
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