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Magnesium oxide

Dan W

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Jan 22, 2013
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1,528
I've been experimenting with magnesium oxide because of it was rumored to be Peat-friendly. However, two quotes have surfaced that make me question that (thanks to Mittir for pointing this out):

Ray Peat said:
"I don't recommend the oxide, because it's very poorly absorbed, but the carbonate is well absorbed. I don't recommend chemical supplements of magnesium, though, because they all contain some manufacturing impurities that can cause bowel inflammation, such as hemorrhoids.
(source)

Ray Peat said:
Magnesium oxide is likely to be mostly a laxative, since it isn't well absorbed.
(source)

So, is the rumored recommendation of magnesium oxide a mistake, or has anyone heard of him suggesting it in a specific context?
 

charlie

The Law & Order Admin
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The first place I saw about magnesium oxide posted was on the fans page.

Supplement list has been updated due to the new information.
 

superhuman

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May 31, 2013
Messages
1,124
That was strange. I also use magnesium oxide because it was recommended in the supplement list.

Is it not good anymore then? also i cant get magnesium carbonate in powder it seems? what are other good ones i can use?
 

Mittir

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Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,034
superhuman said:
Is it not good anymore then? also i cant get magnesium carbonate in powder it seems? what are other good ones i can use?

"Mary Shomon: What supplements do you feel are essential for most people with hypothyroidism?

Dr. Ray Peat: Because the quality of commercial nutritional supplements is dangerously low, the only supplement I generally advocate is vitamin E, and that should be used sparingly. Occasionally, I will suggest limited use of other supplements, but it is far safer in general to use real foods, and to exclude foods which are poor in nutrients. Magnesium is typically deficient in hypothyroidism, and the safest way to get it is by using orange juice and meats, and by using epsom salts baths; magnesium carbonate can be helpful, if the person doesn't experience side effects such as headaches or hemorrhoids."

He is really recommending food and epsom salt bath. He does not trust commercial supplement.
Magnesium content of food i consume
1 quart of milk = 100 mg,
1 quart of OJ= 100 mg
1 oz of instant coffee powder= 90 mg
1 oz of cocoa powder = 140 mg
1 quart of potato juice = 250 mg

You can easily get RDA 420 mg from these foods.
Another thing RP suggest is to boil greens in water and use the water as magnesium source.

I read a study that showed that more than 50 percent of magnesium is lost in
boiling shredded potato for 10-15 min. You can use potato broth as magnesium supplement.

If you do not want to throw away that magnesium oxide you can try adding lime juice to it.
This should give you magnesium citrate, which has much higher
absorption rate.almost same as magnesium carbonate. But this reaction depends on the source of
magnesium oxide. some Magnesium oxide readily reacts with acid and form salt and other type of oxide
reacts very slowly.
I think it is best to avoid ingesting commercial supplements.
 

frustrated

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
134
Dan Wich said:
I've been experimenting with magnesium oxide because of it was rumored to be Peat-friendly. However, two quotes have surfaced that make me question that (thanks to Mittir for pointing this out):

Ray Peat said:
"I don't recommend the oxide, because it's very poorly absorbed, but the carbonate is well absorbed. I don't recommend chemical supplements of magnesium, though, because they all contain some manufacturing impurities that can cause bowel inflammation, such as hemorrhoids.
(source)

Ray Peat said:
Magnesium oxide is likely to be mostly a laxative, since it isn't well absorbed.
(source)

So, is the rumored recommendation of magnesium oxide a mistake, or has anyone heard of him suggesting it in a specific context?

I tried mag oxide and it didn't absorb and worked as a laxative. I tried magnesium citrate, and it did absorb, but gave me hemorrhoids.

This is my first time reading this...it's scarey how accurate RP is...
 

frustrated

Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
134
Mittir said:
superhuman said:
Is it not good anymore then? also i cant get magnesium carbonate in powder it seems? what are other good ones i can use?

"Mary Shomon: What supplements do you feel are essential for most people with hypothyroidism?

Dr. Ray Peat: Because the quality of commercial nutritional supplements is dangerously low, the only supplement I generally advocate is vitamin E, and that should be used sparingly. Occasionally, I will suggest limited use of other supplements, but it is far safer in general to use real foods, and to exclude foods which are poor in nutrients. Magnesium is typically deficient in hypothyroidism, and the safest way to get it is by using orange juice and meats, and by using epsom salts baths; magnesium carbonate can be helpful, if the person doesn't experience side effects such as headaches or hemorrhoids."

He is really recommending food and epsom salt bath. He does not trust commercial supplement.
Magnesium content of food i consume
1 quart of milk = 100 mg,
1 quart of OJ= 100 mg
1 oz of instant coffee powder= 90 mg
1 oz of cocoa powder = 140 mg
1 quart of potato juice = 250 mg

You can easily get RDA 420 mg from these foods.
Another thing RP suggest is to boil greens in water and use the water as magnesium source.

I read a study that showed that more than 50 percent of magnesium is lost in
boiling shredded potato for 10-15 min. You can use potato broth as magnesium supplement.

If you do not want to throw away that magnesium oxide you can try adding lime juice to it.
This should give you magnesium citrate, which has much higher
absorption rate.almost same as magnesium carbonate. But this reaction depends on the source of
magnesium oxide. some Magnesium oxide readily reacts with acid and form salt and other type of oxide
reacts very slowly.
I think it is best to avoid ingesting commercial supplements.

Very nice info Mittir.

Cocoa seems like the best option, but I'm surprised RP hasn't said anything negative about all the fiber in it. I read somewhere that it has some starch in it too but I'm not sure it was a good source - but it is a bean.
 

Birdie

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Joined
Aug 10, 2012
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USA
I have been meaning to ask, and Mittir's comment about 420 mg of Mg being the RDA, does Ray recommend RDA amounts?
 

Birdie

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Joined
Aug 10, 2012
Messages
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Location
USA
I don't know where I got the info on his liking the oxide form either. And, I bought some a month ago to use when travelling in case of muscle spasms, specifically thinking ray had said good things about it. It does seem to help with ms spasms but I won't think of it as a long term solution. Thanks Mittir for the correction.
 

superhuman

Member
Joined
May 31, 2013
Messages
1,124
Mittir said:
superhuman said:
Is it not good anymore then? also i cant get magnesium carbonate in powder it seems? what are other good ones i can use?

"Mary Shomon: What supplements do you feel are essential for most people with hypothyroidism?

Dr. Ray Peat: Because the quality of commercial nutritional supplements is dangerously low, the only supplement I generally advocate is vitamin E, and that should be used sparingly. Occasionally, I will suggest limited use of other supplements, but it is far safer in general to use real foods, and to exclude foods which are poor in nutrients. Magnesium is typically deficient in hypothyroidism, and the safest way to get it is by using orange juice and meats, and by using epsom salts baths; magnesium carbonate can be helpful, if the person doesn't experience side effects such as headaches or hemorrhoids."

He is really recommending food and epsom salt bath. He does not trust commercial supplement.
Magnesium content of food i consume
1 quart of milk = 100 mg,
1 quart of OJ= 100 mg
1 oz of instant coffee powder= 90 mg
1 oz of cocoa powder = 140 mg
1 quart of potato juice = 250 mg

You can easily get RDA 420 mg from these foods.
Another thing RP suggest is to boil greens in water and use the water as magnesium source.

I read a study that showed that more than 50 percent of magnesium is lost in
boiling shredded potato for 10-15 min. You can use potato broth as magnesium supplement.

If you do not want to throw away that magnesium oxide you can try adding lime juice to it.
This should give you magnesium citrate, which has much higher
absorption rate.almost same as magnesium carbonate. But this reaction depends on the source of
magnesium oxide. some Magnesium oxide readily reacts with acid and form salt and other type of oxide
reacts very slowly.
I think it is best to avoid ingesting commercial supplements.



Wow thanx a ton. So adding lemon juice to my magnesium oxide will turn all the magnesium oxide into carbonate and absorbable or just some of it? say i take 400mg of powder and mix with lemon juice will that be 400mg of absorbable magnesium?
 

freal

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
209
1 oz of instant coffee powder= 90 mg
1 oz of cocoa powder = 140 mg
1 quart of potato juice = 250 mg

Hmm, potato juice, not very apetizing and whole liter of it. But if you regurarly had cocoa powder and leafy greens I guarenty you rotten teeth and kidney stones. They are super high in oxalates

Really good sources would be the traditional fermented and alklali treated food that remove oxalates and phytates:

Masa harina
Ducth alkali treated cocoa and chocolate
Fermented beans

But tap water does have around 50 mg/1 liter

But someone mentioned vitamin K2 of being protective against oxalates?

Wow thanx a ton. So adding lemon juice to my magnesium oxide will turn all the magnesium oxide into carbonate and absorbable or just some of it? say i take 400mg of powder and mix with lemon juice will that be 400mg of absorbable magnesium?

Lemon juice will not turn oxide in carbonate. Lemon juice is mostly citric acid therefore it will turn in into magnesium citrate. But I think its kind of time consuming to be doing that plus magnesium oxide is very resistant to chemical reactions.
 

onioneyedox

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Joined
Nov 18, 2012
Messages
108
That seems like a lot of instant coffee. I usually forget to drink coffee all together (too lazy make instant coffee, huh), I guess I'm not that drawn to it. Makes me really want to test it though. Also might be interesting to test higher caffeine intake.


I see sometimes more "natural" brands of cocoa say that they are non-alkalized as it was a good thing... Does this mean that regular cocoa is alkalized?
 

Mittir

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,034
superhuman said:
Mittir said:
If you do not want to throw away that magnesium oxide you can try adding lime juice to it.
This should give you magnesium citrate, which has much higher
absorption rate.almost same as magnesium carbonate. But this reaction depends on the source of
magnesium oxide. some Magnesium oxide readily reacts with acid and form salt and other type of oxide
reacts very slowly.
I think it is best to avoid ingesting commercial supplements.



Wow thanx a ton. So adding lemon juice to my magnesium oxide will turn all the magnesium oxide into carbonate and absorbable or just some of it? say i take 400mg of powder and mix with lemon juice will that be 400mg of absorbable magnesium?

I think you misread my post. You get magnesium citrate from adding lime juice to magnesium oxide.
This reaction depends on the type of magnesium oxide you have .The one i used took quite sometime to
complete reaction. I do not know how much of magnesium oxide turned to magnesium citrate.
But some of it surely did and you will know when the solution loose the sour taste of lime juice.
 

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Mittir

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Feb 20, 2013
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@freal: Ray Peat is not really a fan of leafy greens and most vegetables.
Only in certain cases he recommends boiling greens for magnesium or Vitamin K.
He also recommends eating calcium with oxalate rich food.
Calcium neutralizes oxalic acid and prevents from absorption.

RP strongly recommends potato juice for its keto acid content.
He recommends against beans and fermented food.
One can just add more milk or OJ to get additional magnesium
without using other risky sources.

@onioneyedox : RP uses strong drip coffee for magnesium and niacin.
 

freal

Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2013
Messages
209
onioneyedox said:
That seems like a lot of instant coffee. I usually forget to drink coffee all together (too lazy make instant coffee, huh), I guess I'm not that drawn to it. Makes me really want to test it though. Also might be interesting to test higher caffeine intake.


I see sometimes more "natural" brands of cocoa say that they are non-alkalized as it was a good thing... Does this mean that regular cocoa is alkalized?

Most cocoas in store are not alkalized. Alkalized are much darker in color and less bitter.
But again I am not sure if alkalization does lower oxalates, nobody did any research.

Mittir said:
@freal: Ray Peat is not really a fan of leafy greens and most vegetables.
Only in certain cases he recommends boiling greens for magnesium or Vitamin K.
He also recommends eating calcium with oxalate rich food.
Calcium neutralizes oxalic acid and prevents from absorption.

RP strongly recommends potato juice for its keto acid content.
He recommends against beans and fermented food.
One can just add more milk or OJ to get additional magnesium
without using other risky sources.

@onioneyedox : RP uses strong drip coffee for magnesium and niacin.

Well ,technically chocolate comes from a fermented bean. WAF foundation has an article on have traditional cultures prepare beans, it is extremely time consuming to cook, ferment, re-cook. Its way too much work for me.
 

onioneyedox

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Nov 18, 2012
Messages
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onioneyedox said:
That seems like a lot of instant coffee. I usually forget to drink coffee all together (too lazy make instant coffee, huh), I guess I'm not that drawn to it. Makes me really want to test it though. Also might be interesting to test higher caffeine intake.

Wow, that was a lot of coffee (30g). Does anyone actually drink that much consistently?

I had some trouble falling asleep (though in the afternoon felt tired), and sort of slept poorly at start, but in the morning I felt really good and rested. I have had trouble with buffiness around eyes, and that was totally gone to extend what I don't have looked in years, I feel.

Now, i've been testing some other things too, which may play part also. Slowly making progress, I guess.

I should probably write short introduction for some context to my messages, now that I have got involved with the forum. I just planned staying a lurker. I'll try to do that later.
 

Mittir

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
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Birdie said:
I have been meaning to ask, and Mittir's comment about 420 mg of Mg being the RDA, does Ray recommend RDA amounts?
I have not heard him say any specific amount for magnesium. But he criticized a study
for not giving their subjects the RDA amount of magnesium. I can conclude from that
he at least wants people to have RDA. He also said that hypothyroid people can not
retain magnesium, so they have extra need for magnesium. But best solution is to
fix thyroid .RP recommends using milk, OJ ,salt and coffee for
magnesium and other minerals.
In most studies they use the RDA amount and it shows that people who get
RDA amounts have lower rate of many diseases, specially diabetes compared to people
who are getting less than RDA.

@onioneyedox: You can use decaffeinated instant coffee and it has almost same amount of magnesium.
 

Jenn

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Feb 24, 2013
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There are days that all I drink/eat is coffee with gelatin, sugar and milk with salt. There are days when I don't drink any. It's seasonal. I used to not be able to handle even a sip of diluted green tea because of the caffeine content. Now coffee put me to sleep, is relaxing.
 

Birdie

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Aug 10, 2012
Messages
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Location
USA
Mittir said:
Birdie said:
I have been meaning to ask, and Mittir's comment about 420 mg of Mg being the RDA, does Ray recommend RDA amounts?
I have not heard him say any specific amount for magnesium. But he criticized a study
for not giving their subjects the RDA amount of magnesium. I can conclude from that
he at least wants people to have RDA. He also said that hypothyroid people can not
retain magnesium, so they have extra need for magnesium. But best solution is to
fix thyroid .RP recommends using milk, OJ ,salt and coffee for
magnesium and other minerals.
In most studies they use the RDA amount and it shows that people who get
RDA amounts have lower rate of many diseases, specially diabetes compared to people
who are getting less than RDA.

@onioneyedox: You can use decaffeinated instant coffee and it has almost same amount of magnesium.
That makes sense. I was so used to telling people that the RDAs were not enough so I have that old bias to contend with. I missed peat's comments that you mention. Thanks for responding.
 

Mittir

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2013
Messages
2,034
@birdie
I send an email to Dr Peat asking about magnesium requirement. This is his reply.

Q: Do you have any recommendation for daily intake of magnesium? Is RDA of 420 mg for adult sufficient?

Ray Peat :With the average diet, that amount is enough. Good thyroid function, and plenty of calcium, potassium, and sodium can decrease the amount of magnesium needed.
 

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