Magnesium Gluconate

agnostic

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I'm a long time lurker of this forum. This is my first posting.

I know that Ray Peat recommends magnesium in the form of carbonate or bicarbonate and seems not to be opposed to magnesium glycinate. But what about magnesium gluconate? Does anyone here have experience with it? Is there anything that speaks against it? I read that magnesium gluconate has a very good absorption rate and - unlike magnesium glycinate - is well soluble in water and does not have a bad taste. I became interested in magnesium gluconate because I have a 3 year old son with nocturnal tonic-clonic seizures and this form of magnesium has been used successfully by Lewis B. Barnett, MD in the fourties and fifties to treat epileptic seizures in children (google his name to find more information).
 

yerrag

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I just got interested in both magnesium and calcium in gluconate form. This came out of tara's reply in Why No Calcium Supplements Paired With Amino Acid Chelate Anions?.

I'm going to place an order for both from bulksupplements at Amazon. Should get it in about 2 weeks.

I got interested in the gluconate form as it has close to a neutral effect on acid-base balance. But it's not the only magnesium supplement that has this neutral effect, as I believe the amino acid chelate forms are also neutral. As you had said, magnesium gluconate has a high absorption rate. In a study on rats, it has the highest rate among 10 magnesium salts, both organic and inorganic:

http://www.jle.com/download/mrh-267...tope_approach--W35wxH8AAQEAABWRBnIAAAAG-a.pdf

But elemental magnesium in the salt is a mere 5.86%, which requires a large intake of gluconic to get a small amount of elemental magnesium.

Still, I have to try it out to see if it suits my needs. What I need is a magnesium salt I can take that is neutral, and does not give me side effects from the anion the magnesium is paired with. I have already tried magnesium chloride, magnesium bicarbonate, magnesium carbonate, and magnesium acetate. Over a long period of use, the cumulative effect of the daily acidic load of chloride, and the alkalinic load of bicarbonate, carbonate, and acetate (not in any particular order of strength) makes me urinate a lot. I don't see excessive urination as a good thing, as it means the liver and kidneys are doing extra work just to maintain acid-base balance. It also has a negative effect on the quality of my sleep. With less sleep quality, I can see my health deteriorate, in the form of lower blood sugar, lower immunity, higher susceptibility to allergies, and longer recovery time from sickness.

I don't know the effect of taking so much gluconic acid, so this is what concerns me. Descriptions of it mostly refer to its use in different industries, and it is described as safe. But what I'd like to find out is what happens to it once ingested, and whether its effects are beneficial, harmful, or neutral. Wikipedia has a listing on magnesium gluconate, but it is scant and not many references are available:

Gluconic acid is the initial substrate for the reactions of pentose phosphate path of oxidation of glucose, so it was suggested that it may affect the energy metabolism of mitochondria.[citation needed]

In Ukraine, magnesium gluconate, together with potassium gluconate in the drug Rhythmocor is used to treat heart disease. Pilot studies have shown efficacy in various cardiac arrhythmia.[citation needed] Whether these effects are from the influence of gluconic acid on the metabolism of the heart or from the influence of magnesium and potassium on osmotic pressure is unknown.

In order to get 800mg daily as my therapeutic intake of elemental magnesium, I would need to take a little less than 14 grams of magnesium gluconate. I don't know if I should do this. Maybe I'll start with a lower dose of 400 mg magnesium. Still a lot though.

If my use of magnesium gluconate does not pan out, I may resort to using one of the amino acid chelates of magnesium such as magnesium glycinate, magnesium taurate, and the orotate and aspartate forms. I'm more familiar with the glycinate and taurate forms, but I wonder what specific uses there are for orotate and aspartate.
 

yerrag

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With such big doses of a supplement impurities matter more.
Good point! Glad I hadn't ordered the magnesium gluconate yet. I'm currently using the glycinate form. Will see how this goes and if it goes well, I may not have to go with the gluconate form.
 

Dave Clark

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I just got interested in both magnesium and calcium in gluconate form. This came out of tara's reply in Why No Calcium Supplements Paired With Amino Acid Chelate Anions?.

I'm going to place an order for both from bulksupplements at Amazon. Should get it in about 2 weeks.

I got interested in the gluconate form as it has close to a neutral effect on acid-base balance. But it's not the only magnesium supplement that has this neutral effect, as I believe the amino acid chelate forms are also neutral. As you had said, magnesium gluconate has a high absorption rate. In a study on rats, it has the highest rate among 10 magnesium salts, both organic and inorganic:

http://www.jle.com/download/mrh-267...tope_approach--W35wxH8AAQEAABWRBnIAAAAG-a.pdf

But elemental magnesium in the salt is a mere 5.86%, which requires a large intake of gluconic to get a small amount of elemental magnesium.

Still, I have to try it out to see if it suits my needs. What I need is a magnesium salt I can take that is neutral, and does not give me side effects from the anion the magnesium is paired with. I have already tried magnesium chloride, magnesium bicarbonate, magnesium carbonate, and magnesium acetate. Over a long period of use, the cumulative effect of the daily acidic load of chloride, and the alkalinic load of bicarbonate, carbonate, and acetate (not in any particular order of strength) makes me urinate a lot. I don't see excessive urination as a good thing, as it means the liver and kidneys are doing extra work just to maintain acid-base balance. It also has a negative effect on the quality of my sleep. With less sleep quality, I can see my health deteriorate, in the form of lower blood sugar, lower immunity, higher susceptibility to allergies, and longer recovery time from sickness.

I don't know the effect of taking so much gluconic acid, so this is what concerns me. Descriptions of it mostly refer to its use in different industries, and it is described as safe. But what I'd like to find out is what happens to it once ingested, and whether its effects are beneficial, harmful, or neutral. Wikipedia has a listing on magnesium gluconate, but it is scant and not many references are available:

Gluconic acid is the initial substrate for the reactions of pentose phosphate path of oxidation of glucose, so it was suggested that it may affect the energy metabolism of mitochondria.[citation needed]

In Ukraine, magnesium gluconate, together with potassium gluconate in the drug Rhythmocor is used to treat heart disease. Pilot studies have shown efficacy in various cardiac arrhythmia.[citation needed] Whether these effects are from the influence of gluconic acid on the metabolism of the heart or from the influence of magnesium and potassium on osmotic pressure is unknown.

In order to get 800mg daily as my therapeutic intake of elemental magnesium, I would need to take a little less than 14 grams of magnesium gluconate. I don't know if I should do this. Maybe I'll start with a lower dose of 400 mg magnesium. Still a lot though.

On this link it describes on the list the uses/needs for orotates and aspartates: Nieper Mineral Cell Transport Theory
Just my opinion, but there is a lot of fear mongering about orotates and aspartates, but decades of proper use shows many benefits with few, if any problems. Hans Nieper and thousands of other practitioners have used them successfully on thousands of people.
 

Dave Clark

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On this link it describes on the list the uses/needs for orotates and aspartates: Nieper Mineral Cell Transport Theory
Just my opinion, but there is a lot of fear mongering about orotates and aspartates, but decades of proper use shows many benefits with few, if any problems. Hans Nieper and thousands of other practitioners have used them successfully on thousands of people.
 

Frankdee20

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I rarely see this form. I take 15 ml of Magnesium Chloride in juice, and it provides 400mg easily. It taste salty, but is very absorbable
 

yerrag

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On this link it describes on the list the uses/needs for orotates and aspartates: Nieper Mineral Cell Transport Theory
Just my opinion, but there is a lot of fear mongering about orotates and aspartates, but decades of proper use shows many benefits with few, if any problems. Hans Nieper and thousands of other practitioners have used them successfully on thousands of people.
I suppose I could try these. At least the article shows where their use could be beneficial. I have to look at it further. Thanks Dave.

Carolyn Dean may be right on her points about leafy greens and coffee not providing enough magnesium for RDA, but why is she pushing her own ReMag? I don't like that it is made of magnesium chloride. Magnesium chloride supplementation is a daily acid load, which we don't need. It's not like it's the only magnesium salt that's out there. There are better ones that do not negatively impact our acid-base balance.
 

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Amazoniac

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yerrag, Wagner with Raj taught me that you can get a lot of impurities without realizing when supplementing electrolytes or nutrients that require larger amounts. So even before discovering what are some of the contaminants, if a supplement is only 99% pure (it's very common to provide 98.5-99.5% of the actual desired molecule), everything else is unwanted stuff.

If you take magnesia for example, most forms provide less than 20% of elemental magnesia (one of the exceptions is the hydroxid form). So you need 2 g in total to get 400 mg or less of magnesia. If it's 99% pure, this means that 20 mg are mysterious contaminants.

Maybe you can start to fill up a cup with those 20 mg, little by little every day. After a while you'll be able to sensationalize how much of your bones are brain are now lead and arsenic.
 
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Wagner83

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I get 60mg of hard-to-find heavy metals daily from glycine. I'm trying to guess which one is present in larger quantities based on the type of uncurable illness I develop. The other issue is when retailers claim their products are 99.8% pure it's difficult to know if it's true or if they feed us more blatant lies / ignorance.
 
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achillea

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I suppose I could try these. At least the article shows where their use could be beneficial. I have to look at it further. Thanks Dave.


Carolyn Dean may be right on her points about leafy greens and coffee not providing enough magnesium for RDA, but why is she pushing her own ReMag? I don't like that it is made of magnesium chloride. Magnesium chloride supplementation is a daily acid load, which we don't need. It's not like it's the only magnesium salt that's out there. There are better ones that do not negatively impact our acid-base balance.


Here is a brief paragraph from her website. " But in 2012 I decided to create a magnesium product that I could use for my own symptoms. It’s called ReMag Magnesium Solution. It’s picometer-sized which means it’s absorbed 100% at the cellular level, so your cells have immediate access to usable magnesium. ReMag is a 60,000ppm concentration of 99.99% pure elemental pico meter magnesium. It’s 100% bio-available and can be used topically as well. Another bonus: no laxative effect!

She evidently has studied magnesium for years and written one or two books about it. She has come up with a product she seems to feel works for a lot of people.
How else is she going to sell it? Is it wrong to explain misinformation and then to offer an alternative? She has been selling this for 6 years with wonderful results.

Maybe it will work for someone.


What the hell, so many questions and comments about health but people are ignoring the obvious... the health consequences of cell phones and wifi.Hidden in plain sight.
 

yerrag

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Here is a brief paragraph from her website. " But in 2012 I decided to create a magnesium product that I could use for my own symptoms. It’s called ReMag Magnesium Solution. It’s picometer-sized which means it’s absorbed 100% at the cellular level, so your cells have immediate access to usable magnesium. ReMag is a 60,000ppm concentration of 99.99% pure elemental pico meter magnesium. It’s 100% bio-available and can be used topically as well. Another bonus: no laxative effect!

She evidently has studied magnesium for years and written one or two books about it. She has come up with a product she seems to feel works for a lot of people.
How else is she going to sell it? Is it wrong to explain misinformation and then to offer an alternative? She has been selling this for 6 years with wonderful results.

Maybe it will work for someone.


What the hell, so many questions and comments about health but people are ignoring the obvious... the health consequences of cell phones and wifi.Hidden in plain sight.

That is has no laxative effect does make a case for its high bio-availability, which means high absorbability by the gut. Very often, people mistake the immediate laxative effect from low-bioavailability magnesium salts as a good thing, not realizing that it's the form of magnesium that enables bowel movement from within the body, through the involuntary contraction and relaxation of intestinal muscles, called peristalsis, that should be the gold standard.

The regular magnesium chloride only has 35% bioavailability for the magnesium cation, and 99% for the chloride anion, and this disparity accounts for the acid load it puts on the body.

Perhaps by making the aggregate size of this salt smaller, to the picometer level, changes both the absorbability and the acid-load nature of it, but I think Dr. Dean has the burden of proof to go to greater lengths in addressing the concern I raised.

I can take large quantities of magnesium chloride, like 4800 mg/day, and not feel any negative effects in the short term, but after 4 months, the effects become evident as I start to urinate a lot. The accumulated acid load has reached a critical mass, or a turning point, where it becomes a heavy burden on maintaining acid-base balance. My health deteriorated at this point - allergies, lower immunity, persistent cough, long recovery time from sickness.

I rather would err on the side of caution and avoid her ReMag and go with the more neutral versions of magnesium salts.

Add: I don't really understand how a mechanical process of making magnesium chloride aggregates reduced to pic0-sized particles improves its absorbability. When regular magnesium chloride is dissolved in water with enough mixing, doesn't the magnesium chloride simply dissolve in water? Isn't the interaction already at the molecular level between water and the magnesium chloride particle, even so when magnesium and chloride ions are allowed to dissociate in the solution? How does making magnesium chloride aggregates smaller make a difference when already the interaction is at the molecular level? Are the makers of ReMag hiding something proprietary or maybe adding something to it to alter the absorbability of regular magnesium chloride? This may not be just a matter of pulverizing magnesium chloride to pico particles, but there may be something else added but not being divulged to keep it proprietary. Maybe the pico thing is just a distraction, just like in a magic trick?
 
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Logan-

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