-
By using this site you agree to the terms, rules, and privacy policy.
-
Charlie's Restoration Giveaway #2 (Entire Home EMF Mitigation & Protection Along With Personal Protection) - Click Here To Enter
-
Dear Carnivore Dieters, A Muscle Meat Only Diet is Extremely Healing Because it is a Low "vitamin A" Diet. This is Why it Works so Well...
Rest the rest of this post by clicking here
-
The Forum is transitioning to a subscription-based membership model - Click Here To Read
Click Here if you want to upgrade your account
If you were able to post but cannot do so now, send an email to admin at raypeatforum dot com and include your username and we will fix that right up for you.
Magnesium Deficiency, A Brief Review
- Thread starter Amazoniac
- Start date
OP
Amazoniac
Member
A lord without elevated levels of conspiratonin, but high constipationin that could possibly be corrected by supplemental magnesium and its cofactors. However it didn't work because he was too focused on normalizing his intake of magnesium that he neglected the fact that nutrients interact. I'm mentioning this because it took me a long time to realize that they do nothing alone..
@Amazoniac and forum
Thank you so much for posting this study earlier in the year.
As the days were getting shorter, I began overworking, not paying attention, not using Cronometer, and slowly I got myself into a crisis: DTs. This was so miserable. I had had this symptom last winter occasionally, too, but I wasn't calling the symptoms by this name. I began to have something like restless legs, but all over the body, basically involuntary muscle spasms that would begin almost as soon as I lay down for bed at night, and would resolve in the morning. Not tremors exactly, which are usually neurological.
It seemed like an electrolyte imbalance, but salt didn't help. Then it seemed like endotoxin, and doxycycline did help, but not permanently. The carrot helped, but not always. Serotonin-lowering supplements helped, but not always.
So this winter, exactly at the time when my body was most effected by the shortest amount of daylight, I got DTs again, in a big way. They didn't go away in the morning and they are the kind of thing that makes you feel insane to make them stop. Once I called them by this name, two things happened: I found this study you posted, and I realized what would happen if I went to an emergency dept. Without detailing, I calculated medical emergency care would be about 1/4 correct. Because the name, "delirium tremens" is practically defined as alcoholism withdrawal, I figured I'd be treated as a liar [no alcohol here], and not as a case primarily of electrolyte imbalance.
Within a few minutes of taking about 400mg of a magnesium citrate supplement, I got relief from the DTs, and supplemented every hour for a few. I had to walk back several things that contributed to this state, like overwork, undercalorization, not enought juice/fruit, too much dried fruit [metabisulfite], not using supplemental light, not taking greens broth, wasn't drinking much coffee, not documenting carefully. I've had to supplement magnesium for several days, several times a day, but improvement has been steady. Electrolyte imbalance is nothing to mess around with. And there was massive serotonin release that was causing/caused by persistent diarrhea, typical of electrolyte problems. So, I also took small doses of ondansetron for a couple of days. This is not to mention getting the basics back in order. Completely the fault of bad execution of good principles during stressful conditions.
Posting studies isn't medical advice and my experience isn't a recommendation. I've been a self-experimenter for decades. It's not for everyone.
I wanted to let the forum know how great it can be to use the information that is made available here as a matter of interest in neglected practices. Still recovering, but in the black again.
Thank you again, lords and lordesses, for your generosity in sharing interesting stuff.
Thank you so much for posting this study earlier in the year.
As the days were getting shorter, I began overworking, not paying attention, not using Cronometer, and slowly I got myself into a crisis: DTs. This was so miserable. I had had this symptom last winter occasionally, too, but I wasn't calling the symptoms by this name. I began to have something like restless legs, but all over the body, basically involuntary muscle spasms that would begin almost as soon as I lay down for bed at night, and would resolve in the morning. Not tremors exactly, which are usually neurological.
It seemed like an electrolyte imbalance, but salt didn't help. Then it seemed like endotoxin, and doxycycline did help, but not permanently. The carrot helped, but not always. Serotonin-lowering supplements helped, but not always.
So this winter, exactly at the time when my body was most effected by the shortest amount of daylight, I got DTs again, in a big way. They didn't go away in the morning and they are the kind of thing that makes you feel insane to make them stop. Once I called them by this name, two things happened: I found this study you posted, and I realized what would happen if I went to an emergency dept. Without detailing, I calculated medical emergency care would be about 1/4 correct. Because the name, "delirium tremens" is practically defined as alcoholism withdrawal, I figured I'd be treated as a liar [no alcohol here], and not as a case primarily of electrolyte imbalance.
Within a few minutes of taking about 400mg of a magnesium citrate supplement, I got relief from the DTs, and supplemented every hour for a few. I had to walk back several things that contributed to this state, like overwork, undercalorization, not enought juice/fruit, too much dried fruit [metabisulfite], not using supplemental light, not taking greens broth, wasn't drinking much coffee, not documenting carefully. I've had to supplement magnesium for several days, several times a day, but improvement has been steady. Electrolyte imbalance is nothing to mess around with. And there was massive serotonin release that was causing/caused by persistent diarrhea, typical of electrolyte problems. So, I also took small doses of ondansetron for a couple of days. This is not to mention getting the basics back in order. Completely the fault of bad execution of good principles during stressful conditions.
Posting studies isn't medical advice and my experience isn't a recommendation. I've been a self-experimenter for decades. It's not for everyone.
I wanted to let the forum know how great it can be to use the information that is made available here as a matter of interest in neglected practices. Still recovering, but in the black again.
Thank you again, lords and lordesses, for your generosity in sharing interesting stuff.
OP
Amazoniac
Member
Thank you for sharing, Rafe! Have you read this?
Delirium May Be An Inflammatory Reaction/condition
and this?
Ray Peat Email Exchanges - Ray Peat Forum Wiki
Chronic excess of magnesium can be a problem; if I recall correctly, one of the interferences is with potassium.
Last edited:
I had ZERO response to oral magnesium and tried every single form. It also irritated my gut. I gave magnesium oil a shot (mag chloride) topically either in a bath or sprayed directly onto the skin and got great benefits from it like it actually worked, I was so surprised. I love that stuff now. I let it soak for about 30min total but after the first 10 min you can already feel the effects.
@Amazoniac
Thank you for the follow-up links.
1. Yes, I am trying to keep magnesium supplementation to a minimum, only if the symptoms return. It was a bit of a crisis. [It begins with an inner restlessness, a compulsion to rub my feet together and progresses to the large muscle groups.] In years before peating I did over-supplement with magnesium, especially the citrate, and had some other troubles. I am concentrating on diet today. I listened to Gen Energy podcast 31 [thanks to @Dan Wich] this morning in which RP says one should regard whole foods/fruits especially as having many beneficial but unknown substances that supplementation can't reproduce. And also that T3 helps with mag retention. When I undercalorize, then T3 doesn't do any good for anything. Sigh. A downward spiral.
2. I suspect a longstanding GI lining problem and endotoxin and I have had some good success with doxycycline and serotonin-lowering, but this is not an answer, only a temporary measure. With the DTs last winter and again last week, I suspected only endotoxin and carrot, predictably, helped a lot. This time also, but the symptom seems to be a concatenation [what a word] of endotoxin, liver sluggishness, undercalorization, overwork, and winter-sickness, mostly. It could be that the magnesium is only a small part of the answer. Once my diet gets off the rails then sometimes everything temporarily goes in the wrong direction and all has to be rehabilitated. My previous CRP measures were low, but I haven't had it measured in about a year. And I haven't had the ultra-sensitive CRP measured. Good point. I'm definitely in the state of what RP calls inflammation to a very great degree, where energy going into the organism isn't equal to what is required for its operation & maintenance.
I'm trying not to balance the minerals myself, but to get my appetite back and take green broths, carrot, fruit juices to do that work, plus enough milk & gelatin for protein.
Rafe The Serf
Thank you for the follow-up links.
1. Yes, I am trying to keep magnesium supplementation to a minimum, only if the symptoms return. It was a bit of a crisis. [It begins with an inner restlessness, a compulsion to rub my feet together and progresses to the large muscle groups.] In years before peating I did over-supplement with magnesium, especially the citrate, and had some other troubles. I am concentrating on diet today. I listened to Gen Energy podcast 31 [thanks to @Dan Wich] this morning in which RP says one should regard whole foods/fruits especially as having many beneficial but unknown substances that supplementation can't reproduce. And also that T3 helps with mag retention. When I undercalorize, then T3 doesn't do any good for anything. Sigh. A downward spiral.
2. I suspect a longstanding GI lining problem and endotoxin and I have had some good success with doxycycline and serotonin-lowering, but this is not an answer, only a temporary measure. With the DTs last winter and again last week, I suspected only endotoxin and carrot, predictably, helped a lot. This time also, but the symptom seems to be a concatenation [what a word] of endotoxin, liver sluggishness, undercalorization, overwork, and winter-sickness, mostly. It could be that the magnesium is only a small part of the answer. Once my diet gets off the rails then sometimes everything temporarily goes in the wrong direction and all has to be rehabilitated. My previous CRP measures were low, but I haven't had it measured in about a year. And I haven't had the ultra-sensitive CRP measured. Good point. I'm definitely in the state of what RP calls inflammation to a very great degree, where energy going into the organism isn't equal to what is required for its operation & maintenance.
I'm trying not to balance the minerals myself, but to get my appetite back and take green broths, carrot, fruit juices to do that work, plus enough milk & gelatin for protein.
Rafe The Serf
Mito
Member
- Joined
- Dec 10, 2016
- Messages
- 2,554
What effects have you felt from magnesium oil?
Relaxation, calmer, leaning effect on body almost like after I take it my muscles are way more define (I believe from the mag getting excess water out of the cell?), way easier to fall asleep at night, skin seems better too. I originally wanted to take mag since it's a co-factor for a boatload of enzymes and also I noticed an increase in effect when I take it with preg/dhea combo.
The stress reduction aspect is the most notable though. In a hot bath/foot bath the effects are way more immediate too. The hot water opens up the pores quicker.
DaveFoster
Member
Peat says magnesium chloride is allergenic though, but it works for me as well.
@paymanz
Thank you so much for the suggestions!
I've recovered fully, & am putting pen to paper to re-evaluate what I'm doing. I'd gotten my diet too narrow under stress & was reacting, not preventing stress, turning my upward spiral downward.
I have a bag of taurine powder, so I will experiment with it. Supplementing mag, using red light, resting as much as I want helped me get my appetite back & got me going back in the right direction, among other things as needed.
Thanks again! Will report back.
Thank you so much for the suggestions!
I've recovered fully, & am putting pen to paper to re-evaluate what I'm doing. I'd gotten my diet too narrow under stress & was reacting, not preventing stress, turning my upward spiral downward.
I have a bag of taurine powder, so I will experiment with it. Supplementing mag, using red light, resting as much as I want helped me get my appetite back & got me going back in the right direction, among other things as needed.
Thanks again! Will report back.
Giraffe
Member
- Joined
- Jun 20, 2015
- Messages
- 3,730
Some stuff I read in a booked called "Magnesium: Current Status and New Developments" (1997).
Most of the magnesium and calcium is in the bones, so the levels there represent nutritional status. They did a couple of experiments with rats:
Calcium deficient diet
Magnesium deficient diet
Calcium deficient diet, low in protein
Magnesium deficient diet, low in thiamine
References
1. Iwabuchi A., Notani c., Tsutsui Y., Kimura M., Itokawa Y. (1985): Changes in tissue mineral levels in calcium deficient rats. J. Jap. Soc. Mg. Res. 4: 45-51.
2. Yagi N., Morioka M., Maruyama Y., Yamada K., TakedaK., Itokawa Y. (1986): Effect of magnesium and calcium deficiency on mineral metabolism of mother rats and their lactating infants. J. Jap. Soc. Mg. Res. 5: 9-14.
3. Itokawa Y., Fujiwara M. (1973): Changes in tissue magnesium, calcium and phosphorus levels in magnesium deficient rats in relation to thiamin excess and deficiency. J. Nutr. 103: 438-443.
4. Takeda T., Kimura M., Itokawa Y. (1993): Imbalance of calcium, magnesium and phosphorus in bone and other tissues of rats induced by low protein and calcium deficiency. J. Nutr. Sci. Vitaminol. 39: 355-363.
Most of the magnesium and calcium is in the bones, so the levels there represent nutritional status. They did a couple of experiments with rats:
Calcium deficient diet
- Calcium and magnesium in bone decreased.
- Calcium levels in blood, brain, heart and kidney decreased.
- Magnesium levels in blood, liver and spleen increased.
Magnesium deficient diet
- Calcium and magnesium levels in bone decreased.
- Magnesium levels in serum, heart and muscles were decreased. No significant difference was observed in magnesium levels of brain, liver, spleen, kidneys and testicles.
- Calcium levels increased in serum, heart, kidneys and muscles.
Calcium deficient diet, low in protein
- Similar to calcium deficient diet, but less severe.
Magnesium deficient diet, low in thiamine
- Similar to magnesium deficient diet, but less severe.
References
1. Iwabuchi A., Notani c., Tsutsui Y., Kimura M., Itokawa Y. (1985): Changes in tissue mineral levels in calcium deficient rats. J. Jap. Soc. Mg. Res. 4: 45-51.
2. Yagi N., Morioka M., Maruyama Y., Yamada K., TakedaK., Itokawa Y. (1986): Effect of magnesium and calcium deficiency on mineral metabolism of mother rats and their lactating infants. J. Jap. Soc. Mg. Res. 5: 9-14.
3. Itokawa Y., Fujiwara M. (1973): Changes in tissue magnesium, calcium and phosphorus levels in magnesium deficient rats in relation to thiamin excess and deficiency. J. Nutr. 103: 438-443.
4. Takeda T., Kimura M., Itokawa Y. (1993): Imbalance of calcium, magnesium and phosphorus in bone and other tissues of rats induced by low protein and calcium deficiency. J. Nutr. Sci. Vitaminol. 39: 355-363.
OP
Amazoniac
Member
OP
Amazoniac
Member
ESPN-13: 9781846283888
"Magnesium deficiency has been associated with significantly increased serum/plasma triglycerides, phospholipids, variable total cholesterol, low-density cholesterol, and oleic and linoleic acids, and decreased stearic and aeachidonic acids."
"The main change in tissue fatty acid composition in magnesium deficiency was the higher docosahexaenoic acid in serum, liver, and aorta than in controls.65"
65. Cunnane SC, Soma M, McAdoo KR, Horrobin DF. Magnesium deficiency in the rat increases tissue levels of docosahexaenoic acid. J Nutr 1985;115:1498–1503.
"Magnesium is known to be necessary for the correct metabolism of vitamins such as thiamin,77 pyridoxine,2 and vitamins D27,78 and E.69"
"In 1988, the possibility was discovered that a part of therapeutic effect of Li+ in BD [Bipolar Disorder] is due to competition between Li+ and Mg2+ for the intracellular binding site of magnesium, because Li+ and Mg2+ have some similar physicochemical characteristics.8"
"It is considered that the mechanism of increasing this magnesium concentration is represented by a competition between Li+ and Mg2+ for magnesium intracellular binding sites. Increasing binding of lithium to these molecular sites decreases magnesium binding and raises the concentration of free intracellular magnesium.9 An intracellular lithium concentration of 15 mm/L determines an important increase in Mg2+ concentration in neuroblastoma cells (approximately 158%).12"
"Decreased Mg2+ and increased Ca2+ levels in the neocortex of the patients with severe MD [Major Depression] was identified.28"
"We consider that increasing intracellular magnesium concentration is an important part of the mechanism of action of some typical and atypical antipsychotics. Intra- and extracellular concentrations of magnesium and other bivalent cations may be considered as a biological marker for some psychoses. We consider that a low level of intracellular Mg2+ correlated with a raised plasmatic ratio (Cu2+/Zn2+) might be a severity indicator of MD and SCH [Schizophrenia]."
--
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf
"Magnesium deficiency has been associated with significantly increased serum/plasma triglycerides, phospholipids, variable total cholesterol, low-density cholesterol, and oleic and linoleic acids, and decreased stearic and aeachidonic acids."
"The main change in tissue fatty acid composition in magnesium deficiency was the higher docosahexaenoic acid in serum, liver, and aorta than in controls.65"
65. Cunnane SC, Soma M, McAdoo KR, Horrobin DF. Magnesium deficiency in the rat increases tissue levels of docosahexaenoic acid. J Nutr 1985;115:1498–1503.
"Magnesium is known to be necessary for the correct metabolism of vitamins such as thiamin,77 pyridoxine,2 and vitamins D27,78 and E.69"
2. Durlach J. Magnesium in Clinical Practice. Paris: John Libbey; 1988.
27. Traba ML, De la Piedra C, Rapado A. Role of PTH and cAMP in the impaired synthesis of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D in magnesium deficient rats. Med Sci Res 1989;17:327–328.
69. Günther T, Höllriegl V, Massh A, Vormann J, Bubeck J, Classen HG. Effect of Desferrioxamine on lipid peroxidation in tissues of magnesium-deficient and vitamin E-depleted rats. Magnes Bull 1994;16:119–125.
77. Itokawa Y, Kimura M. Effect of Mg deficiency on thiamine metabolism. Magnes Bull 1982;4:5–8.
78. Risco F, Traba ML. Bone specific binding sites for 1,25 (OH)2D3 in magnesium deficiency. J Physiol Biochem 2004;60:199–203.
27. Traba ML, De la Piedra C, Rapado A. Role of PTH and cAMP in the impaired synthesis of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D in magnesium deficient rats. Med Sci Res 1989;17:327–328.
69. Günther T, Höllriegl V, Massh A, Vormann J, Bubeck J, Classen HG. Effect of Desferrioxamine on lipid peroxidation in tissues of magnesium-deficient and vitamin E-depleted rats. Magnes Bull 1994;16:119–125.
77. Itokawa Y, Kimura M. Effect of Mg deficiency on thiamine metabolism. Magnes Bull 1982;4:5–8.
78. Risco F, Traba ML. Bone specific binding sites for 1,25 (OH)2D3 in magnesium deficiency. J Physiol Biochem 2004;60:199–203.
"In 1988, the possibility was discovered that a part of therapeutic effect of Li+ in BD [Bipolar Disorder] is due to competition between Li+ and Mg2+ for the intracellular binding site of magnesium, because Li+ and Mg2+ have some similar physicochemical characteristics.8"
8. Avissar S, Schreiber G, Danon A, Belmaker RH. Lithium inhibits adrenergic and cholinergic increases in GTP binding in rat cortex. Nature 1988;331:440–442.
"It is considered that the mechanism of increasing this magnesium concentration is represented by a competition between Li+ and Mg2+ for magnesium intracellular binding sites. Increasing binding of lithium to these molecular sites decreases magnesium binding and raises the concentration of free intracellular magnesium.9 An intracellular lithium concentration of 15 mm/L determines an important increase in Mg2+ concentration in neuroblastoma cells (approximately 158%).12"
9. Amari L, Layden B, Nikolakopoulos J, et al. Competition between Li+ and Mg2+ in neuroblastoma SH-SY5Y cells: a fluorescence and 31P NMR study. Biophys J 1999;76:2934–2942.
12. Layden BT, Abukhdeir AM, Williams N, et al. Effects of Li(+) transport and Li(+) immobilization on Li(+)/Mg(2+) competition in cells: implications for bipolar disorder. Biochem Pharmacol 2003;66:1915–1924.
12. Layden BT, Abukhdeir AM, Williams N, et al. Effects of Li(+) transport and Li(+) immobilization on Li(+)/Mg(2+) competition in cells: implications for bipolar disorder. Biochem Pharmacol 2003;66:1915–1924.
"Decreased Mg2+ and increased Ca2+ levels in the neocortex of the patients with severe MD [Major Depression] was identified.28"
28. Basarsky TA, Duffy SN, Andrew RD, MacVicar BA. Imaging spreading depression and associated intracellular calcium waves in brain slices. J Neurosci 1998;18: 7189–7199.
"We consider that increasing intracellular magnesium concentration is an important part of the mechanism of action of some typical and atypical antipsychotics. Intra- and extracellular concentrations of magnesium and other bivalent cations may be considered as a biological marker for some psychoses. We consider that a low level of intracellular Mg2+ correlated with a raised plasmatic ratio (Cu2+/Zn2+) might be a severity indicator of MD and SCH [Schizophrenia]."
--
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf
what brand do you use Tubzy?
OP
Amazoniac
Member
Just the ancient minerals one
OP
Amazoniac
Member
OP
Amazoniac
Member
MAGNESIUM DEFICIENCY IN THE PATHOGENESIS OF DISEASE
ISBN 978-1-4684-9108-1
Heart problems:
Glucose Solutions and Insulin to Increase Myocardial Magnesium and Potassium Uptake
"Laborit (1958) considered hypertonic glucose solutions useful in attaining a normal myocardial electrolyte gradient, (for repolarization) and recommended the use of aspartate salts of Mg + K."
"Kones (1975) has evaluated the clinical response of patients with infarction and reported that glucose-insulin-potassium therapy is a useful therapeutic adjunct. Opie and Owen (1976) have provided experimental evidence that such treatment increases the arteriovenous coronary difference of glucose, decreases the free fatty acids, accelerates the fall of the epicardial ST segment, and prevents the small rise in the ST segment in the peri-infarct and nonischemic zones. Gavrilescu et al. (1974) have shown that slow (over I-hour period) i. v. infusion of 3 g of potassium and magnesium asparate in 200 ml of physiological saline lowers the elevated levels of free fatty acids that develop during the first hour after an acute myocardial infarction (p. 225).These findings support the contention that such treatment has beneficial effects on tissue metabolic, histologic, and electrocardiographic criteria of ischemic damage."
"[..]glucose has been shown to accelerate the uptake of (28)Mg by the heart more than twofold (Aikawa, 1960a), and the magnesium ion seems to be essential for maintaining tissue response to insulin (G. Bhattacharya, 1961), addition of magnesium to the polarizing solution would seem advisable. It is provocative that Bajusz (1964, 1965b) found that the partially protective effects of either magnesium and potassium chlorides or aspartates were markedly increased by simultaneous administration of glucose and insulin."
ISBN 978-1-4684-9108-1
Heart problems:
Glucose Solutions and Insulin to Increase Myocardial Magnesium and Potassium Uptake
"Laborit (1958) considered hypertonic glucose solutions useful in attaining a normal myocardial electrolyte gradient, (for repolarization) and recommended the use of aspartate salts of Mg + K."
"Kones (1975) has evaluated the clinical response of patients with infarction and reported that glucose-insulin-potassium therapy is a useful therapeutic adjunct. Opie and Owen (1976) have provided experimental evidence that such treatment increases the arteriovenous coronary difference of glucose, decreases the free fatty acids, accelerates the fall of the epicardial ST segment, and prevents the small rise in the ST segment in the peri-infarct and nonischemic zones. Gavrilescu et al. (1974) have shown that slow (over I-hour period) i. v. infusion of 3 g of potassium and magnesium asparate in 200 ml of physiological saline lowers the elevated levels of free fatty acids that develop during the first hour after an acute myocardial infarction (p. 225).These findings support the contention that such treatment has beneficial effects on tissue metabolic, histologic, and electrocardiographic criteria of ischemic damage."
"[..]glucose has been shown to accelerate the uptake of (28)Mg by the heart more than twofold (Aikawa, 1960a), and the magnesium ion seems to be essential for maintaining tissue response to insulin (G. Bhattacharya, 1961), addition of magnesium to the polarizing solution would seem advisable. It is provocative that Bajusz (1964, 1965b) found that the partially protective effects of either magnesium and potassium chlorides or aspartates were markedly increased by simultaneous administration of glucose and insulin."
EMF Mitigation - Flush Niacin - Big 5 Minerals
Similar threads
