Magnesium And Bone Ache

[mayweatherking]

Does anyone know why if you take magnesium you'd get a bone ache in fingers? Youd think it's from not enough calcium, but I have enough. I don't know what the cause is.

Or eating more phosphate meal like coke and beef will cause it.

I just took 1/2 teaspoon of egg shell calcium with those two, is it not enough to balance the phosphate of the meal? Also taking mag carbonate with the meal when I noticed the issue. :-(

 

[mayweatherking]

I just put on 40mg of k2 on my skin. Maybe is that what is missing? I have enough calcuum, magnesium causes the problem, my D is between 50 to 60, I take A.

The only two other things I can think of is an issue is not enough vit e or not enoigh zinc. Im getting a zinc supp to try in the next day.

Something with a lot of sugar messed me up.. when u was drinking cokes constantly it made my bones start aching... I dont know why... you would think not enough magnesium. .. but the mag makes my bones ache more.. I dk what is missing.. I have the b6 from tuna.

Maybe some blood test anyone knows of? Im gojng to go fri for prolactin, pth, cholesterol, and vit d.

 

[mayweatherking]

Man... I feel like my body was in complete shock. I took some magnrsium glycinate. .. another form of magnesium I have and my whole body feels calm bow.

Although my teeth started aching a little.. its not in my hands as much and I feel more calm.. very weird. Maybe I had a terrible reaction to the magnesium I had.. it was this liquid magnesium chloride..

Is it possibe to have negstive effects to some magnesium but not others? Jesus I literally feel like my body was in shock after now taking the glycinqte and my muscles feel way more relaxed...... wtf????

 

[tara]

Is it possibe to have negstive effects to some magnesium but not others?

Yes

 

[mayweatherking]

Thanks tara.

Apparently magnesium is retained by cells via taurine. Taurine is a major part of bile. bile is biosynthesized from 5ar2. I have post fin issues.. aka 5ar2 inhibition... maybe I found my problem.

Hiw to increase bile?

@haidut do you think this is possible problem? Maybe that's why my whole body is constantly locked up.. I never get magnesium in my cells because no bile?

 

[haidut]

Thanks tara.

Apparently magnesium is retained by cells via taurine. Taurine is a major part of bile. bile is biosynthesized from 5ar2. I have post fin issues.. aka 5ar2 inhibition... maybe I found my problem.

Hiw to increase bile?

@haidut do you think this is possible problem? Maybe that's why my whole body is constantly locked up.. I never get magnesium in my cells because no bile?

Taurine is the most potent OTC substance for increasing bile production. That is actually one mechanism of how taurine and glycine lower cholesterol - i.e. both of them increase bile synthesis, which uses up cholesterol. Bile acids also act on the bile acid "receptor" and increase metabolism.
How Pregnenolone And Progesterone Raise Metabolism

So, low bile acid production means may mean low metabolism and definitely poor fat absorption. Taurine has been used to improve both protein and fat utilization, which undoubtedly has something to do with its effects on bile acid synthesis.
Taurine dramatically improves protein utilization from food
How Taurine May Treat Diabetes
Taurine improves the absorption of a fat meal in patients with cystic fibrosis. - PubMed - NCBI

In addition, taurine regulates electrolyte balance, so it may aid magnesium retention. But the primary factor in magnesium retention is ATP, which is low in hypothyroidism. This is why Peat says that he only takes magnesium together with a little T3. Otherwise, most of the magnesium ends up excreted.
I am hoping to remediate somewhat the magnesium retention issue with my future supplement of magnesium dissolved in DMSO. When dissolved in DMSO magnesium can easily get inside the cell and does not need much ATP to do so.

 

[milk_lover]

mayweatherking, I had the same issue with magnesium chloride aka magnesium oil. It seems that it doesn't get inside my cells as much as I hoped it would. I tried DMSO with it and bang I felt the calming feeling you mentioned with the other type of magnesium you tried.

Taurine is the most potent OTC substance for increasing bile production. That is actually one mechanism of how taurine and glycine lower cholesterol - i.e. both of them increase bile synthesis, which uses up cholesterol. Bile acids also act on the bile acid "receptor" and increase metabolism.
How Pregnenolone And Progesterone Raise Metabolism

So, low bile acid production means may mean low metabolism and definitely poor fat absorption. Taurine has been used to improve both protein and fat utilization, which undoubtedly has something to do with its effects on bile acid synthesis.
Taurine dramatically improves protein utilization from food
How Taurine May Treat Diabetes
Taurine improves the absorption of a fat meal in patients with cystic fibrosis. - PubMed - NCBI

In addition, taurine regulates electrolyte balance, so it may aid magnesium retention. But the primary factor in magnesium retention is ATP, which is low in hypothyroidism. This is why Peat says that he only takes magnesium together with a little T3. Otherwise, most of the magnesium ends up excreted.
I am hoping to remediate somewhat the magnesium retention issue with my future supplement of magnesium dissolved in DMSO. When dissolved in DMSO magnesium can easily get inside the cell and does not need much ATP to do so.

Anything else that increases ATP besides T3 I could try with my magnesium? I don't wanna mess with thyroid hormone "yet". Looking forward to your DMSO+magnesium supplement BTW especially after you solved the staining and garlic smell issues with DMSO :)

 

[haidut]

mayweatherking, I had the same issue with magnesium chloride aka magnesium oil. It seems that it doesn't get inside my cells as much as I hoped it would. I tried DMSO with it and bang I felt the calming feeling you mentioned with the other type of magnesium you tried.



Anything else that increases ATP besides T3 I could try with my magnesium? I don't wanna mess with thyroid hormone "yet". Looking forward to your DMSO+magnesium supplement BTW especially after you solved the staining and garlic smell issues with DMSO :)

Pregnenolone improves magnesium retention as well.

 

[mayweatherking]

@haidut you are a god send myfriend. AAmazing info, thank you

 

[Brian]

Apparently magnesium is retained by cells via taurine. Taurine is a major part of bile. bile is biosynthesized from 5ar2. I have post fin issues.. aka 5ar2 inhibition... maybe I found my problem.

You know come to think of it I was taking a lot of taurine when I made big gains in magnesium retention. I wonder if it wasn't a large factor. I was also taking Life Extension K2 and drinking 2-4 cups of raw milk per day which may have contained at least some thyroid and progesterone. So that could have been a big part of it too. I was also taking a B complex with P5P B6.

There was another time I can remember that I was having a really good response to magnesium and I was also taking taurine and P5P B6 (but no raw milk or thyroid), so I wonder if there is something synergistic about that combo that helps with magnesium retention when tissues are saturated with them.

 

[mayweatherking]

You know come to think of it I was taking a lot of taurine when I made big gains in magnesium retention. I wonder if it wasn't a large factor. I was also taking Life Extension K2 and drinking 2-4 cups of raw milk per day which may have contained at least some thyroid and progesterone. So that could have been a big part of it too. I was also taking a B complex with P5P B6.

There was another time I can remember that I was having a really good response to magnesium and I was also taking taurine and P5P B6 (but no raw milk or thyroid), so I wonder if there is something synergistic about that combo that helps with magnesium retention when tissues are saturated with them.

I just saw this. Yeah, you maybe right. I think zinc seems to play a part too for sure. I noticed today my hair was not really falling out and I ate a lot of liver yesterday along with a lot of coffee now. To your B complex. I am really upping the coffee to make sure I hit the requirements, but I know for a fact I was extremely zinc deficient. I can tell right now by how I'm feeling when I've been supplementing with it. I really miss my pets from my home all of a sudden... I was really emotionless like a zombie for a really long time.. I seem to be coming back to reality with it.. it is kind of hard intense actually.

I should look into the taurine maybe... I also started taking knox gelatin everyday which I think is helping....

 

[mayweatherking]

I might be screwed lol. My prolactin is now 27. My drinkimg a ton of coke and eating a bunch of zinc I think screwed me a lot. I lost a lot of hair... a lot and I cant seem to get the prolactin down. Even my bones are aching when I take thyroid so I had to lay off it. I think im sucking massive calcijm out of my bones.. Im drinking a lot of milk.

Would just a ton of calcium and coffee help to stpp this? Damn man.. this is kind of bad lol wtf

 

[mayweatherking]

My body doesnt seem to respond to calcium or mag right.. my vit d is 52 and my cholesterol is 240. But my body constantly grabbing stuff from bone.. damn it...........

 

[heartnhands]

Y

Taurine is the most potent OTC substance for increasing bile production. That is actually one mechanism of how taurine and glycine lower cholesterol - i.e. both of them increase bile synthesis, which uses up cholesterol. Bile acids also act on the bile acid "receptor" and increase metabolism.
How Pregnenolone And Progesterone Raise Metabolism

So, low bile acid production means may mean low metabolism and definitely poor fat absorption. Taurine has been used to improve both protein and fat utilization, which undoubtedly has something to do with its effects on bile acid synthesis.
Taurine dramatically improves protein utilization from food
How Taurine May Treat Diabetes
Taurine improves the absorption of a fat meal in patients with cystic fibrosis. - PubMed - NCBI

In addition, taurine regulates electrolyte balance, so it may aid magnesium retention. But the primary factor in magnesium retention is ATP, which is low in hypothyroidism. This is why Peat says that he only takes magnesium together with a little T3. Otherwise, most of the magnesium ends up excreted.
I am hoping to remediate somewhat the magnesium retention issue with my future supplement of magnesium dissolved in DMSO. When dissolved in DMSO magnesium can easily get inside the cell and does not need much ATP to do so.

You are committed to your health, God Bless your heart! I know the amazing goodness of DMSO, but it's all I can do to rub it on my body, swallowing is practically penance. I don't know whether to wish you good luck with this tact or pray it's a failure so non of us will have the stuff cross our tongue.

 

[mayweatherking]

Ummmmmmmm.. I now weigh 175..... I was 157 in january of this year....... wtf is going on??? Lol what the hell. I'm getting fat!!!! I have a gut a little.... omg.

 

[mayweatherking]

I want to take thyroid again but my bones ache when I do I think... im at a regular doctor now and getting all this stuff checked by him

 

[Brian]

I might be screwed lol. My prolactin is now 27. My drinkimg a ton of coke and eating a bunch of zinc I think screwed me a lot. I lost a lot of hair... a lot and I cant seem to get the prolactin down. Even my bones are aching when I take thyroid so I had to lay off it. I think im sucking massive calcijm out of my bones.. Im drinking a lot of milk.

Would just a ton of calcium and coffee help to stpp this? Damn man.. this is kind of bad lol wtf

How much zinc are you taking? My experience is that zinc is very poorly utilized until basic cellular energy is improved through intracellular magnesium and either increased production or supplementation of thyroid. I can't remember the reference, but I'm pretty sure I've read that high zinc supplementation can raise prolactin. I'm not sure what the mechanism would be, but maybe it could be from gut irritation from malabsorbed zinc. I also think it's misguided to take large amounts of zinc from food or supplement to correct a deficiency when there isn't sufficient cellular energy to assimilate it.

What kind of milk are you drinking and how much? When I tried to use milk as a staple when my metabolism sucked I just gained enormous amounts of water weight quickly and felt cold. Taking a few mg of taurine with milk really helped it digest a lot better. Since large amounts of milk require large amounts of gastric acid I think milk as a staple can be problematic when trying to improve health. Milk obviously isn't a reliable source of calcium if you aren't digesting it fully. I even wonder if the phosphate portion of the milk could be absorbed better than the calcium molecules in some instances, leading to an even worse calcium/phosphate ratio (just an idea, I don't know if it's possible or not).

So I'm a really big fan of using taurine for hitting several important stones at once: improving fat, protein, and vitamin digestion, improving liver health, getting rid of excess unbound copper in the liver, improving alkaline ion regulation of Na, Mg, Ca, and K.

I'm pretty sure the technique that worked for me was:
1) saturating my tissues with taurine. Probably taking about 12 grams per day in doses of up to 4 grams after meals for a few weeks. And then smaller amounts as necessary to keep taurine levels up.

2) Eating a high sodium diet, mostly lower liquid solid foods and meals (not just milk or juice as the main foods, although some is fine). This is mostly to improve digestion.

3) Taking baking soda baths regularly (a pound per bath) to increase sodium quickly to a high level, which seem to be retained well with the help of taurine, even without thyroid supplmentation.

4) Supplementing magnesium. Sipping diluted magnesium chloride with a little baking soda in a glass of water between meals worked really well for me, but other forms probably work just as well.

I don't know if this approach will work for you or someone else, but I'm fairly sure it's the essential elements of the approach that worked for me. Pretty quickly I could tell things were working. My saliva had a constant pleasant milky alkaline taste even though I wasn't consuming any milk and little dairy at the time (I assume from soft tissue calcium being removed and being utilized properly now back into teeth and bones). I had warm extremities constantly. Started having morning erections. Zinc containing foods started having noticeable androgenic, prolactin/estrogen lowering effects.

I just maintained this state through the four things I listed until it seemed my natural thyroid production was kicking in. I'm in a much better place now, but I still take smaller amounts of taurine and do these other things to some degree because I still get positive effects from them. I also think a B complex or just some P5P B6 can be helpful, although I'm not sure it is essential to my approach.

Anyways, just throwing this out there for consideration as your symptoms and condition remind me a little of where I was at once.

 

[mayweatherking]

How much zinc are you taking? My experience is that zinc is very poorly utilized until basic cellular energy is improved through intracellular magnesium and either increased production or supplementation of thyroid. I can't remember the reference, but I'm pretty sure I've read that high zinc supplementation can raise prolactin. I'm not sure what the mechanism would be, but maybe it could be from gut irritation from malabsorbed zinc. I also think it's misguided to take large amounts of zinc from food or supplement to correct a deficiency when there isn't sufficient cellular energy to assimilate it.

What kind of milk are you drinking and how much? When I tried to use milk as a staple when my metabolism sucked I just gained enormous amounts of water weight quickly and felt cold. Taking a few mg of taurine with milk really helped it digest a lot better. Since large amounts of milk require large amounts of gastric acid I think milk as a staple can be problematic when trying to improve health. Milk obviously isn't a reliable source of calcium if you aren't digesting it fully. I even wonder if the phosphate portion of the milk could be absorbed better than the calcium molecules in some instances, leading to an even worse calcium/phosphate ratio (just an idea, I don't know if it's possible or not).

So I'm a really big fan of using taurine for hitting several important stones at once: improving fat, protein, and vitamin digestion, improving liver health, getting rid of excess unbound copper in the liver, improving alkaline ion regulation of Na, Mg, Ca, and K.

I'm pretty sure the technique that worked for me was:
1) saturating my tissues with taurine. Probably taking about 12 grams per day in doses of up to 4 grams after meals for a few weeks. And then smaller amounts as necessary to keep taurine levels up.

2) Eating a high sodium diet, mostly lower liquid solid foods and meals (not just milk or juice as the main foods, although some is fine). This is mostly to improve digestion.

3) Taking baking soda baths regularly (a pound per bath) to increase sodium quickly to a high level, which seem to be retained well with the help of taurine, even without thyroid supplmentation.

4) Supplementing magnesium. Sipping diluted magnesium chloride with a little baking soda in a glass of water between meals worked really well for me, but other forms probably work just as well.

I don't know if this approach will work for you or someone else, but I'm fairly sure it's the essential elements of the approach that worked for me. Pretty quickly I could tell things were working. My saliva had a constant pleasant milky alkaline taste even though I wasn't consuming any milk and little dairy at the time (I assume from soft tissue calcium being removed and being utilized properly now back into teeth and bones). I had warm extremities constantly. Started having morning erections. Zinc containing foods started having noticeable androgenic, prolactin/estrogen lowering effects.

I just maintained this state through the four things I listed until it seemed my natural thyroid production was kicking in. I'm in a much better place now, but I still take smaller amounts of taurine and do these other things to some degree because I still get positive effects from them. I also think a B complex or just some P5P B6 can be helpful, although I'm not sure it is essential to my approach.

Anyways, just throwing this out there for consideration as your symptoms and condition remind me a little of where I was at once.

i think when I was doing the diet before.. I think I might have been low on the magnesium and it shot my prolactin through the roof. it is really, really weird dude. I dropped thyroid completely and I have been eating straight up oranges instead of drinking orange juice and I have been drinking chocolate milk and eating oranges, and drinking a lot of coffee now. i drink probably 6 or 7 cups a day now and i think it is helping me out.

before, i wasn't supplementing zinc. when I started supplementing zinc, I started to gain weight.... like a lot. Like you guys keep saying eat, so now I weight 174.. I was only 157 3 months ago. That is basically 20 pounds in 3 months.. and I know for a fact I put most of it on since starting to take zinc... but the zinc is making me feel way way better. So I'm not sure what the deal is.

I'm also doing nofap, I'm at like day 7 or 8 or 9, I'm not sure, but I'm keeping as much zinc in as possible. And try to get prolactin down.

I just got prolactin tested again.. I wasn't doing as much magnesium as I am now. I am seeing what it will be in a few days from now.

I saw the opposite on zinc actually, someone posted this, but haidut said it wasn't definite: Zinc Seems To Acutely Reduce Prolactin

I'll let you know how it goes increasing taurine, but I am definetely getting enough calcium and magnesium, so it just might be thyroid I need again to get it in the right place... but the weight gain.... holy crap dude.... 20 pounds so fast from zinc.... although I could never gain weight my whole life... so maybe it is a good thing? i kind of have a little gut forming now though. lol.

 

[lindsay]

Taurine is the most potent OTC substance for increasing bile production. That is actually one mechanism of how taurine and glycine lower cholesterol - i.e. both of them increase bile synthesis, which uses up cholesterol. Bile acids also act on the bile acid "receptor" and increase metabolism.

But I thought you were opposed to Bile production (you mentioned this in relation to fat intake), because it stimulates serotonin? But it also helps to excrete toxins and excess hormones. So I've been a bit confused about this. Actually, I'm super confused about the bile thing because since I began taking Ox Bile (post appendectomy), I feel SO much better. I don't have a gallbladder, granted, but something about the addition of bile and the purging effect of it are super powerful for me. Carrots also help excrete bile and cholesterol - Dewitt (from Peatarian) pointed this out years ago and said that he thought that it might be a bad thing (because of the excreting of cholesterol). But goodness knows, the purging via bile is huge in my book. This is what a don't get about serotonin. It's bad, but so is constipation. And how do you have a bowel movement without serotonin? So if bile (and going to the bathroom) gets rid of crap and stimulates serotonin, but serotonin isn't reabsorbed by the intestine and bloodstream, than is it really bad in this particular circumstance? This is what I don't get. Call me stupid, but I think RP thinks that serotonin production when waste isn't excreted is the bad thing. Because then it gets reabsorbed and creates problems. That has always been my understanding about serotonin & RP. When the intestine is irritated, but doesn't excrete waste, or produces rampant diarrhea, then this is bad. But when the intestine clears things out in good fashion and is done, then is this really bad?

 

[tara]

This is what a don't get about serotonin. It's bad, but so is constipation. And how do you have a bowel movement without serotonin?

I think the idea might be that if there is a lot of inflammation and therefore a reduced lumen diameter, and if there is low energy available (eg low metabolism or low CO2), then it takes a lot of serotonin to stimulate enough peristalsis to keep the GI moving adequately.
If the inflammation can be reduced, then it's not so hard to push things through.
And if the metabolism is strong, maybe the gut keeps moving better anyway, even with less serotonin? I'm not sure about this last one.

I don't think the serotonin is all in the lumen of the gut, and so excreted (maybe some of it is, I don't know). I think it is in the tissue of the gut - acting on the muscles etc somehow to kick them into action - so more systemic.