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Anti-Peat Maasai kids (high milk consumption) are iron deficient with a high prevalence of chronic inflammation and intestinal damage

Apollo

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This study compares preschoolers from two tribes (Kamba and Maasai).
Kamba children on "iron fortified cereal with low milk diet" are healthier than Maasai kids on "high milk diet"

38 percent of the Maasai preschoolers had anaemia, almost all of which was associated with iron deficiency , compared with only 5% anaemia in the Kamba.
The higher prevalence of iron deficiency among Maasai than Kamba children was possibly attributed to the high consumption of cow's milk (low in bioavailable iron) in place of micronutrient fortified meals together with a higher prevalence of chronic inflammation and intestinal damage.
The much lower prevalence of iron deficiency and iron deficiency anaemia in the Kamba was most likely due to their regular consumption of iron fortified cereal.

 
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Nebula

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Besides possible deficiencies, their environment looks quite unhygienic. Dung houses, no refrigeration, contaminated water table/sources.
 

Apollo

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Besides possible deficiencies, their environment looks quite unhygienic. Dung houses, no refrigeration, contaminated water table/sources.
Kamba kids live in similar conditions but anaemia and inflamation are much less prevalent among them (on fortified cereal diet and low milk).
 

Kvothe

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This study compares preschoolers from two tribes (Kamba and Maasai).

38 percent of the Maasai preschoolers had anaemia, almost all of which was associated with iron deficiency , compared with only 5% anaemia in the Kamba.
The higher prevalence of iron deficiency among Maasai than Kamba children was possibly attributed to the high consumption of cow's milk (low in bioavailable iron) in place of micronutrient fortified meals together with a higher prevalence of chronic inflammation and intestinal damage.
The much lower prevalence of iron deficiency and iron deficiency anaemia in the Kamba was most likely due to their regular consumption of iron fortified cereal.


Plasma IgG is not a conclusive indicator for intestinal inflammation, and a 10% difference is hardly meaningful, imho. The rest of the study reads like a commercial for junk iron supplements.
 

Birdie

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Please post evidence, comments from Ray that show he doesn't believe your title. Or be specific about how this subject is "Anti-Peat".
 

Apollo

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Please post evidence, comments from Ray that show he doesn't believe your title. Or be specific about how this subject is "Anti-Peat".
The whole idea that "iron fortified cereal with low milk" is better for kids than "high milk diet" surely is "Anti-Peat"
 

Ben.

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Stone me if i am wrong, but didnt ray even say that iron could be a issue on a predominently milk based diet? If so then i dont think this thread is realy anti-peat category.

I guess it heavily depends on the animals food intake aswell. Dont they also drink the blood? That would count for some iron i guess?
 

Apollo

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Stone me if i am wrong, but didnt ray even say that iron could be a issue on a predominently milk based diet? If so then i dont think this thread is realy anti-peat category.

I guess it heavily depends on the animals food intake aswell. Dont they also drink the blood? That would count for some iron i guess?
My impression is that Ray is very anti-iron. It is dicussed in many threads here how coffee and milk are good due to supressing iron absorption and how meat and cereals are bad due to high iron.
2 quarts of milk will definitely interfere with iron absorption (and other minerals). I just can't comprehend why people take this advice of 2 quarts of milk seriously.
 

Yonebayashian

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How many threads trashing the Masasi are you going to make? Also their diet is actually excessively high in iron as one of their staples is raw blood.
 

Apollo

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How many threads trashing the Masasi are you going to make? Also their diet is actually excessively high in iron as one of their staples is raw blood.
I can only think of Maasai who would drink 2 quarts of milk or more and be happy :)
 

Birdie

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Kamba kids live in similar conditions but anaemia and inflamation are much less prevalent among them (on fortified cereal diet and low milk).
I see what you meant then. I don't see the conclusion that it is anti-peat. Peat calmly takes people where they are. He could find it interesting if he is unaware of it, but I doubt that.
 

Apollo

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I see what you meant then. I don't see the conclusion that it is anti-peat. Peat calmly takes people where they are. He could find it interesting if he is unaware of it, but I doubt that.
The conclusion is Ray Peat is not Maasai and has nothing to do with drinking gallons of Milk. :)
 

changeling188

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Maybe the introduction of iron-fortified cereal damaged their metabolism, as from reading the study all of the Maasai subjects chosen were already attending the early childhood development centres and eating the food provided at the time the study began. Also says further down their access to the cereal was inconsistent because during roaming periods they did not attend the feeding clinic.

There's also no timeframe provided for the study for the collection of the demographic information or the blood. Or if each child was given one blood test or multiple.

The cereal could have induced the inflammation, and allergic reactions to vitamins added to foods is quite common.

Anyhow in the Maasai subjects, their diet was substantially different from that of traditional Maasai people because of eating cereal, whereas the pastoralist Kamba diet already contains grains. The design of the study makes drawing any conclusions from the information nearly impossible with all the external variables, which is acknowledged in the latter part of the study.

Mosquito nets and deworming treatments are used by Kamba people more often. Much of the differences could be accounted for by access to sanitation or insect repellants. Namely, differential use of rainwater as drinking water and prevalence of pit latrines.

It seems far more likely that drinking water contaminated with parasites would be the cause of nutrient malabsorption, as is the case in most of Africa.

If you can't digest milk or lactose, and your body can't get used to it then don't consume it. There's other sources of nutrients and other sources of calcium.
 

changeling188

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Kamba kids live in similar conditions but anaemia and inflamation are much less prevalent among them (on fortified cereal diet and low milk).
Mosquito nets, worming tablets, pit latrines, separate rooms for cooking and rainwater collection more likely among Kamba than Maasai.
Screen Shot 2021-12-14 at 4.28.19 pm.png

low weight to age (WAZ) z-scores and low height for age (HAZ) z-scores significantly worse among Kamba than Maasai. Kamba children more likely to be malnourished, underweight and stunted than their anaemic Maasai countrymen. It pays to read the study fully!
 

changeling188

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Screen Shot 2021-12-14 at 4.34.38 pm.png
Maasai have less fever, less cough, less vomiting, yet more diarrhoea (contaminated water).
Similar vaccination rate, less mosquito nets, less deworming treatments, less vitamin A supplements.
Lower prevalence of stunting and lower prevalence of being underweight.
 

changeling188

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Seems that immunologically (less fever, cough, vomiting) and lower prevalence of stunting and underweight, the Maasai are better off because of their diet than the Kamba even though they are relatively more disadvantaged because of the rest of their lifestyle.

Diarrhoea, elevated c-reactive protein and nutritional deficiencies are all side effects of water-borne diseases or parasitic infection.

It is strange to me that the focus in this area of the world would be the provision, by UNICEF, of inoculation and Unimix (which contains cheap but antimetabolic soy beans, cornflour and vegetable oil), instead of clean drinking water and adequate sewerage or plumbing.

Not to mention giving people their own means to treat waterborne diseases through reliable access to anti-parasite treatments or antibiotics which should be easy to obtain if the supply wasn't contaminated by the commercial interests of the producers and distributors.

A little bit tangential but it reminds me of Nestlé's distribution of baby formula in Africa, which constitutes a crime against humanity and is a blindspot for anti-racists everywhere. And note below:

Klaus Schwab as publisher of the World Economic Forum's 2010 "Global Redesign" report postulates that a globalized world is best managed by a self-selected coalition of multinational corporations, governments (including through the UN system) and select civil society organizations (CSOs). He argues that governments no longer are "the overwhelmingly dominant actors on the world stage" and that “the time has come for a new stakeholder paradigm of international governance”. The WEF's vision includes a "public-private" UN, in which certain specialized agencies would operate under joint State and non-State governance systems.

images (1).jpeg
 

tankasnowgod

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This study compares preschoolers from two tribes (Kamba and Maasai).
Kamba children on "iron fortified cereal with low milk diet" are healthier than Maasai kids on "high milk diet"
But.... are they? They simply took some blood markers and then compared it against some arbitrary lab ranges, and made this conclusion based on that.
38 percent of the Maasai preschoolers had anaemia, almost all of which was associated with iron deficiency , compared with only 5% anaemia in the Kamba.
The higher prevalence of iron deficiency among Maasai than Kamba children was possibly attributed to the high consumption of cow's milk (low in bioavailable iron) in place of micronutrient fortified meals together with a higher prevalence of chronic inflammation and intestinal damage.
The much lower prevalence of iron deficiency and iron deficiency anaemia in the Kamba was most likely due to their regular consumption of iron fortified cereal.

They keep on claiming "Anaemia," but their only definition is hemoglobin lower that 110 g/L.

Anaemia was defined by Hb <110 g/L or <115 g/L for children <5 and ≥5 years, respectively (WHO, 2001) and depleted iron stores as plasma ferritin (adjusted for inflammation) <12 μg/L and <15 μg/L for children <5 or ≥5 years, respectively (WHO, 2001). Tissue iron deficiency was defined as sTfR >8.3 mg/L and iron deficiency as total body iron <0 mg/kg (Engle‐Stone, Nankap, Ndjebayi, Erhardt, & Brown, 2013). Iron deficiency anaemia was defined as iron deficiency concurrent with anaemia.

Okay, so the Masai Children had lower Hemoglobin and Ferritin thatn Kamba Children (who ate more iron). So what?

True anemia has some pretty nasty symptoms-

  • Fatigue
  • Weakness
  • Pale or yellowish skin
  • Irregular heartbeats
  • Shortness of breath
  • Dizziness or lightheadedness
  • Chest pain
  • Cold hands and feet
  • Headaches

So, are these children weak and fatigued? Suffering irregular heartbeats, or shortness or breath? Or, are they acting like healthy young children of a similar age?

Peat even addresses this in his "Iron's Dangers" article-


In a study of the "malnourished" children of migrant fruit pickers in California, these children who were "seriously anemic" were actually more resistant to infectious diseases than were the "well nourished" middle class children in the same region.

If the normal amount of dietary iron causes an increased susceptibility to infections even in children, and if a subnormal amount of iron slows the aging process, I think we are going to have to reconsider our ideas of nutritional adequacy, to look at the long range effects of diet, as well as the immediate effects. My current studies have to do with analyzing our ability to handle stress safely, in relation to our diet. I believe our nutritional recommendations for iron have to be revised sharply downward.

E.D. Weinberg points out something similar in "Exposing the Hidden Dangers of Iron." In the 60's Marori Newborns were thought to be "Anemic," so they started injecting them with Iron Dextran. With the injections, the rates of Malaria doubled, and the rates of E. Coli increased 7 fold. There were no recorded infant deaths prior the injections, 22 during the experimental period, and returning to 0 when they were stopped.

Sure, Masai children might have lower hemoglobin and ferritin than another group of children. That doesn't necessarily mean they are less healthy, or even have anemia. This is the risk of diagnosing by blood tests, and nothing more.
 
B

BRBsavinWorld

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This study compares preschoolers from two tribes (Kamba and Maasai).
Kamba children on "iron fortified cereal with low milk diet" are healthier than Maasai kids on "high milk diet"

38 percent of the Maasai preschoolers had anaemia, almost all of which was associated with iron deficiency , compared with only 5% anaemia in the Kamba.
The higher prevalence of iron deficiency among Maasai than Kamba children was possibly attributed to the high consumption of cow's milk (low in bioavailable iron) in place of micronutrient fortified meals together with a higher prevalence of chronic inflammation and intestinal damage.
The much lower prevalence of iron deficiency and iron deficiency anaemia in the Kamba was most likely due to their regular consumption of iron fortified cereal.

Man. I specifically listened to Ray Peat explain the problems of a red-meat free diet, due to the necessity of iron, and how a diet of potatoes and dairy could be perfect except for iron deficiency.

He merely says that we overrate the importance of iron, and the proposed healthy range should be lowered significantly!

So what you may find on this website is many people who are high in iron, and trying many ways to lower it. It’s always best to start with the source material (Ray himself), and go here for questions or personal experiences pertaining to your stuff. Not all the opinions on this website are even of Ray’s.

I think people would benefit from a word search of Ray’s writings and listen to relevant “Ray Peat Clips,” before bothering with the forum.
 

RealNeat

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Everything a westerner touches is full of iron.

It's fortified in every processed wheat product and infant formula, it leaches in higher quantities from the soil into water and produce due to acid rain, it's in pharmaceuticals (like birth control) and so on.

To compare that to the Masai and try to unify the conclusion is short sighted.

Different context, different terrain. Westerners need more iron antagonists unless raised consciously.

I'd gather that if there is any need for concern in the masai diet (if that's actually the cause of the conclusions) its the intake of blood which has many more variables than iron and a general lack of diversity in the diet.
 

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