haidut

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Ray wrote a few times that people with clotting disorder often have issues with high serotonin and estrogen, and lung disorders like pulmonary hypertension, COPD and even cystic fibrosis. Lungs are also one of the few organs outside of the brain and GI tract that is capable of synthesizing serotonin, so this link is not surprising. This new study found that lung are a major source of platelets and can also rejuvenate bone marrow cells if those start malfunctioning.
Given the anabolic effects of anti-serotonin drugs on lung tissue, maybe a treatment for bone marrow disorders or patients undergoing radiation treatment would be as simple as administering an anti-serotonin chemical. Now I see that the decision of Pfizer to pursue approval of terguride (a lisuride derivative) for BOTH lung fibrosis and idiopathic anemia is well-founded.

Surprising New Role for Lungs: Making Blood | UC San Francisco
"...Using video microscopy in the living mouse lung, UC San Francisco scientists have revealed that the lungs play a previously unrecognized role in blood production. As reported online March 22, 2017, in Nature, the researchers found that the lungs produced more than half of the platelets – blood components required for the clotting that stanches bleeding – in the mouse circulation. In another surprise finding, the scientists also identified a previously unknown pool of blood stem cells capable of restoring blood production when the stem cells of the bone marrow, previously thought to be the principal site of blood production, are depleted."
 

DKayJoe

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Interesting, I do find that my lung capacity tends to increase on cypro regardless of how much I smoke, I atrributed it to eating and sleepibg more rather than the cypro itself.
 

haidut

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Interesting, I do find that my lung capacity tends to increase on cypro regardless of how much I smoke, I atrributed it to eating and sleepibg more rather than the cypro itself.

Anything that lowers serotonin would tend to increase aerobic capacity. Long distance runners often have fibrotic lungs and it is usually as a result of the high serotonin from all this exhaustive running.
 

bzmazu

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Ray wrote a few times that people with clotting disorder often have issues with high serotonin and estrogen, and lung disorders like pulmonary hypertension, COPD and even cystic fibrosis. Lungs are also one of the few organs outside of the brain and GI tract that is capable of synthesizing serotonin, so this link is not surprising. This new study found that lung are a major source of platelets and can also rejuvenate bone marrow cells if those start malfunctioning.
Given the anabolic effects of anti-serotonin drugs on lung tissue, maybe a treatment for bone marrow disorders or patients undergoing radiation treatment would be as simple as administering an anti-serotonin chemical. Now I see that the decision of Pfizer to pursue approval of terguride (a lisuride derivative) for BOTH lung fibrosis and idiopathic anemia is well-founded.

Surprising New Role for Lungs: Making Blood | UC San Francisco
"...Using video microscopy in the living mouse lung, UC San Francisco scientists have revealed that the lungs play a previously unrecognized role in blood production. As reported online March 22, 2017, in Nature, the researchers found that the lungs produced more than half of the platelets – blood components required for the clotting that stanches bleeding – in the mouse circulation. In another surprise finding, the scientists also identified a previously unknown pool of blood stem cells capable of restoring blood production when the stem cells of the bone marrow, previously thought to be the principal site of blood production, are depleted."

wonder if this could have ramifications for leukemia?...thanks for all the interesting research you bring to forum
 

haidut

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bzmazu

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excellent!
 

bzmazu

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chest infections often lead to the demise of elderly leukemia patients
 

Soren

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Now I see that the decision of Pfizer to pursue approval of terguride (a lisuride derivative) for BOTH lung fibrosis and idiopathic anemia is well-founded.

Fascinating. I assume based on this you would say that lisuride as well as other anti serotonin treatments should be a good treatment for cystic fibrosis?

And that also anything else that lowers serotonin levels, such as charcoal?

It's amazing how many chronic degenerative conditions can be linked to high serotonin levels. Im currently trying to peace together as best as I can as much evidence as possible demonstrating the causative roll serotonin has in parkinsons.
 

haidut

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Fascinating. I assume based on this you would say that lisuride as well as other anti serotonin treatments should be a good treatment for cystic fibrosis?

And that also anything else that lowers serotonin levels, such as charcoal?

It's amazing how many chronic degenerative conditions can be linked to high serotonin levels. Im currently trying to peace together as best as I can as much evidence as possible demonstrating the causative roll serotonin has in parkinsons.

You know I can't comment on this directly, but you already know what I would say :): Look up the structure and receptor activity of lisuride and terguride and you will get the answer you seek. Terguride is just a bastardized lisuride which can be patented, unlike lisuride whose patent expired long ago.
 

Tenglish

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I read the same article, and my recent experience seems quite fascinating. I am returning to a crossfit type sport now that my stress is much lower and my diet and energy are rebounding...I have many periods of adaptation and dis-adaptation to fitness, but this time definitely seems the easiest transition and is so after a long absence (like 3 years off). I am taking cyproheptadine regularly and also added thyroid (t4) to my day as I counter the stress with calories from milk and sugar. I am evaluating my optimum mostly by feelings of warmth, flexibility, and bowl status. I am also very curious to see how the longer term feeling of "adhesions" and injuries as I found the important link with thyroid, feeling heat and being flexible/resilient to injury: Thyroid hormones and skeletal muscle — new insights and potential implications
 

Soren

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You know I can't comment on this directly, but you already know what I would say :) Look up the structure and receptor activity of lisuride and terguride and you will get the answer you seek. Terguride is just a bastardized lisuride which can be patented, unlike lisuride whose patent expired long ago.

Haha, thanks Haidut. Just went and looked at the structures, unbelievable! Virtually identical. Unbelievable how the pharmaceutical industry gets away with this crap. Here are the chemical structures side by side if anyone is interested.

Lisuride on the left. Terguride on the right.
 

haidut

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Haha, thanks Haidut. Just went and looked at the structures, unbelievable! Virtually identical. Unbelievable how the pharmaceutical industry gets away with this crap. Here are the chemical structures side by side if anyone is interested.

Lisuride on the left. Terguride on the right.

Yep, pretty much the same except for the extra H atom in terguride. From what I am hearing this game won't stop there. Pfizer and other companies are looking for ways to reintroduce cyproheptadine to the market (at 10,000 markup) by simply adding 2 ketone groups. Well, the drug ketotifen is already doing that - basically it is cypro with an extra ketone, so by adding just one more ketone group Pfizer will collect a few billion in payments. How the laws allow this is beyond me. A patent should be sufficiently different from existing chemicals and add novelty. Otherwise it is nothing but a money milking scheme piggy-back riding on other chemicals' success and safety studies.
 

aguilaroja

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Yep, pretty much the same except for the extra H atom in terguride. From what I am hearing this game won't stop there. Pfizer and other companies are looking for ways to reintroduce cyproheptadine to the market (at 10,000 markup) by simply adding 2 ketone groups. Well, the drug ketotifen is already doing that - basically it is cypro with an extra ketone, so by adding just one more ketone group Pfizer will collect a few billion in payments. How the laws allow this is beyond me. A patent should be sufficiently different from existing chemicals and add novelty. Otherwise it is nothing but a money milking scheme piggy-back riding on other chemicals' success and safety studies.

The general phenom is the “me-too” pharmaceutical drug. There is much more profit in tweaking a previous formula & selling it as “new and improved”, than in devising an innovative line.

Me-too drugs - Stanford Medicine Magazine - Stanford University School of Medicine

This problem has been raised by many prominent critics for over a decade, including by two former editors of the New England Journal of Medicine, Marcia Angell and Jerome Kassirer.

The advertising/marketing expenses by pharma corps are many multiples of their R & D expenses, and have been that way for decades.
 

Makrosky

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Slightly off-topic but I think it's nice. Accodrding to Traditional Chinese Medicine blood is created :

"Blood mainly originates from food essence and Jing (the essence of life associated with the growth and development of the body). First, digested food is turned into food essence by the stomach and spleen's transforming functions. It is then transported upwards by the spleen to the lungs where it turns into blood with the help of the heart and lungs. Eating a balanced and healthy diet is extremely important, because of the spleen's role in the production of qi and blood."
 

haidut

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The general phenom is the “me-too” pharmaceutical drug. There is much more profit in tweaking a previous formula & selling it as “new and improved”, than in devising an innovative line.

Me-too drugs - Stanford Medicine Magazine - Stanford University School of Medicine

This problem has been raised by many prominent critics for over a decade, including by two former editors of the New England Journal of Medicine, Marcia Angell and Jerome Kassirer.

The advertising/marketing expenses by pharma corps are many multiples of their R & D expenses, and have been that way for decades.

Wow, so not only it is not an isolated event but pretty much the modus operandi! Well, I guess the good news is that pharma probably realized new drugs are not achieving anything of note so it's going back to something that works...and asking us to pay a few thousand times more than what the drug costs.
 

mangoes

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I've noticed when I take cypro, the next day when I smoke my chest will hurt a bit/feel rough which rarely happens otherwise. @haidut do you have any idea why that is? If it's supposed to help lung function? Maybe I'm dosing too high?
 

haidut

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I've noticed when I take cypro, the next day when I smoke my chest will hurt a bit/feel rough which rarely happens otherwise. @haidut do you have any idea why that is? If it's supposed to help lung function? Maybe I'm dosing too high?

Could be the anticholinergic effects and dehydration. Cypro is known to dry up mucous membranes.
 

Soren

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Are there any studies on serotonin antagonists and COPD specifically?
 
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