LSD And Serotonin

[Makrosky]

post 80249

Anybody actually tried LSD for lowering serotonin? It seems Peat is pretty fond of LSD.

I'm thinking of trying a high dose and then microdosing with 20-35ug every 3rd day.

Lisuride is much safer and very similar to LSD.

Ironically, it's easier right now to buy 1P-LSD then lisuride in my country. And way much cheaper.

Haidut do you think LSD while on cypro posses any risk?

 

[Such_Saturation]

post 114139
Haidut do you think LSD while on cypro posses any risk?

I've been really wanting to try that. Could be a great trip stopper!

 

[Makrosky]

post 114142

post 114139
Haidut do you think LSD while on cypro posses any risk?

I've been really wanting to try that. Could be a great trip stopper!

Stopper? Aren't both serotonin antagonists according to Peat?

Btw has anyone microdosed MDMA?

 

[Such_Saturation]

So you think you can just ram some cyproheptadine and it will make you trip? tripping isn't that simple...

 

[DaveFoster]

post 114096 LSA remains, however, legal in the US? Maybe I should try it if it also functions as effective anti-serotonin.

It's legal to possess the seeds, but not legal to consume them in any way. So yes, it's legal.

 

[Parsifal]

Someone told me that: "I've heard from some people who use testing reagants to ensure that it is pure LSD that most LSD on the streets is actually various forms of the 2C-x class. Likely that no one around my age that believes they've used LSD has actually done so unless they've used a testing reagant or seen it synthesized first hand."

I was curious about psychedelic mushrooms? Is that anything like LSD?

Regarding shrooms, someone told me: "I've seen some information indicating it causes it's modulation via certain serotonergic neurons/sub-type receptors, but don't know if that means that it in fact causes a systemic, peripheral, or CNS based increase in serotonin, or perhaps if those studies are even correct."

Anyways, it seems hard to get true LSD-25 so I don't know if the "LSD" that people get is really antagonizing serotonin in the first place?

Around 0.1 - 0.2 g per day. Still experimenting with different frequencies, I think dosing every 3rd day like op mentioned is a good start.

Are you still doing it?

I'm going to do a few experiments with 1p-LSD, it's legal. I already did the first one with 25mcg. Will do a more detailed post when I try the 12,5mcg dose. 25 was too much to be considered a microdose. The thing gives you massive ammounts of energy but you have to be very well nourished and a good metabolism. It feels like pressing the "nitro" powerup button in those old racing videogames.

I've read that 1P-LSD is stronger than LSD-25 but there are no studies on it. Has someone tried both to know if it antagonizes serotonin? I've read the testimony of someone after LSD in the past and it cleared his acne in just one day.

It's legal to possess the seeds, but not legal to consume them in any way. So yes, it's legal.

I think that they poison the seeds so it makes people vomit (clear sign of high serotonin?).

 

[DaveFoster]

I think that they poison the seeds so it makes people vomit (clear sign of high serotonin?).

That may be the case for some, but the ergoloid derivatives are generally hard on the stomach, particularly ergine.

 

[Dopamine]

I've read that 1P-LSD is stronger than LSD-25 but there are no studies on it. Has someone tried both to know if it antagonizes serotonin? I've read the testimony of someone after LSD in the past and it cleared his acne in just one day.

I have taken AL-LAD which is similar to 1P-LSD. Both drugs are structurally similar to LSD. At 1/2 tab (75ug) I would say it was the strongest serotonin antagonizing drug I have ever taken:

Very warm hands and feet.
Very optimistic and high mood.
Massive boost in creativity and focus. Read philosophy for several hours and had amazing insights.
Complete elimination of depressive symptoms such as anhedonia and apathy that had lasting effects.
Big reduction in acne that had lasting effects. My skin was glowing.
Food tasted great. Music was a euphoric experience.
I wasn't physically or mentally impaired in any significant way. No visuals.
Best trip of my life.

I think visuals during a psychedelic trip indicate an increase in serotonin. I get high serotonin symptoms during the most visual periods of my trips. Low serotonin effects are mainly experienced post trip- after the visuals have ceased. My best trips have all been lacking in visuals/psychedelic hallucinations because I think these are symptoms of high serotonin...

Psychedelics, Serotonin, And Dopamine
I wrote an article on how I think psychedelics may work in regards to serotonin and dopamine. Some of my thoughts have evolved since I wrote it but many of my original statements hold true.

 

[squanch]

Are you still doing it?

I don't use micro doses anymore, no.
I would still recommend them to people who have never taken psychedelics, but I personally prefer a high dose trip once every 2-3 month now.

 

[Parsifal]

I have taken AL-LAD which is similar to 1P-LSD. Both drugs are structurally similar to LSD. At 1/2 tab (75ug) I would say it was the strongest serotonin antagonizing drug I have ever taken:

Very warm hands and feet.
Very optimistic and high mood.
Massive boost in creativity and focus. Read philosophy for several hours and had amazing insights.
Complete elimination of depressive symptoms such as anhedonia and apathy that had lasting effects.
Big reduction in acne that had lasting effects. My skin was glowing.
Food tasted great. Music was a euphoric experience.
I wasn't physically or mentally impaired in any significant way. No visuals.
Best trip of my life.

I think visuals during a psychedelic trip indicate an increase in serotonin. I get high serotonin symptoms during the most visual periods of my trips. Low serotonin effects are mainly experienced post trip- after the visuals have ceased. My best trips have all been lacking in visuals/psychedelic hallucinations because I think these are symptoms of high serotonin...

Psychedelics, Serotonin, And Dopamine
I wrote an article on how I think psychedelics may work in regards to serotonin and dopamine. Some of my thoughts have evolved since I wrote it but many of my original statements hold true.

Interesting! Thanks.

 

[Makrosky]

I've read that 1P-LSD is stronger than LSD-25 but there are no studies on it. Has someone tried both to know if it antagonizes serotonin? I've read the testimony of someone after LSD in the past and it cleared his acne in just one day.

We asked David E Nichols a few questions regarding this subject. Dr Nichols is the founding president of the Heffter Research Institute, a non-profit that researches medical uses for of psychedelic hallucinogens. He has been working in the psychoactive field since 1969, and was involved in the first human trials for MDMA under Alexander Shulgin.

Is 1P-LSD a prodrug to LSD?

David Nichols:

It is a prodrug, and is hydrolyzed in the body to LSD. A publication just came out in Drug Testing and Analysis.

Can a prodrug be more potent than their parent chemical?

David Nichols:

No, a prodrug won’t generally be more potent than the actual parent drug. In some cases, e.g. heroin, which is a prodrug for morphine, will get into the brain faster and at a higher concentration than morphine will; 10 mg of heroin would have more effect than 10 mg of morphine. But that is the exception.

As a prodrug, 1P-LSD becomes similar to LSD in its effects only after it’s been metabolized. While the debate for which new drugs will take over the market rages on, this interesting analogue of an old favorite is making its presence known.


There's a lot of anecdotal evidence from experienced users on Reddit (hah!!! like it is reliable, right?) that 1P-LSD effects are indistinguishable from those of LSD.

I think you should try a microdose at least once. And definitely be very cautious and think about it thorougly if you want a full dose. It's two very different things.

No matter how different from LSD it might be, it will have good effects on you and can't really do you any harm.

 

[Makrosky]

I have taken AL-LAD which is similar to 1P-LSD. Both drugs are structurally similar to LSD. At 1/2 tab (75ug) I would say it was the strongest serotonin antagonizing drug I have ever taken:

Very warm hands and feet.
Very optimistic and high mood.
Massive boost in creativity and focus. Read philosophy for several hours and had amazing insights.
Complete elimination of depressive symptoms such as anhedonia and apathy that had lasting effects.
Big reduction in acne that had lasting effects. My skin was glowing.
Food tasted great. Music was a euphoric experience.
I wasn't physically or mentally impaired in any significant way. No visuals.
Best trip of my life.

I think visuals during a psychedelic trip indicate an increase in serotonin. I get high serotonin symptoms during the most visual periods of my trips. Low serotonin effects are mainly experienced post trip- after the visuals have ceased. My best trips have all been lacking in visuals/psychedelic hallucinations because I think these are symptoms of high serotonin...

Psychedelics, Serotonin, And Dopamine
I wrote an article on how I think psychedelics may work in regards to serotonin and dopamine. Some of my thoughts have evolved since I wrote it but many of my original statements hold true.

PLEASE : LSD cannot be described as a serotonin antagonist so happily. It has serotonin agonist properties among other things.

Read this : Mechanisms of LSD: a Glimpse into the Serotonergic System

 

[Parsifal]

PLEASE : LSD cannot be described as a serotonin antagonist so happily. It has serotonin agonist properties among other things.

Read this : Mechanisms of LSD: a Glimpse into the Serotonergic System

Thanks Makrosky! How could we explain HPPD, flashback and bad trips?
Are shrooms similar to LSD as serotonin antagonists? It seems more visual?

 

[Such_Saturation]

How long for 1P effects?

 

[Makrosky]

Thanks Makrosky! How could we explain HPPD, flashback and bad trips?
Are shrooms similar to LSD as serotonin antagonists? It seems more visual?

Sorry Parsifal, I can't help you much with that because I don't know much from a theoretical/medical point of view. But some comment, strictly derived from personal experience :

- For HPPD I don't know what might cause it but I think it's very unlikely to happen from microdoses ?

- For the flashbacks, it could be so many things... What's bad about them anyway ? It's a free microtrip! :) It could be so many things related to neurotransmitter pathways. We don't know much about brain neurochemistry. I have thought sometimes that certain substances can accumulate on the liver and get released after a certain ammount of time. But it's a pure speculative thought. I never had uncontrolable flashbacks. It's not that you get the whole trip back. It lasts a few seconds or minutes at most and much milder effects.

- For the bad trips : There's no single bad(or good) trip the same. But I think bad trips occur like bad things in life occur all the time. We don't live in paradise, and we ALL have very dark pools in our subconscious/interconscious psyche. It can happen that during a bad trip you're negating what you're seeing/experiencing and thus creating a resisting force that is blocking the free flow of the trip, thus you're trapped in a vicious circle. Sometimes you have to surrender and not doing so can cause a bad trip. Light comes after dark and dark comes after light in a continuous circle. Other times a bad trip can show you what you don't want in your life. Or to teach you some humility. Another thing I can tell you is that with repeated experience you can have a better control of bad trips. Not that you're safe from them, but it becomes somehow easier to steer the wheel of the trip to places you don't want to visit. Of course there's a bigger chance for bad trips to occur if you're emotionally disturbed. Set & setting. I think the biggest problem is when you think the bad trip is not gonna end. If you get trapped by that, then you're gonna suffer. If you surrender, then it passes and naturally you will move to much nicer places. Because it is like life. Nothing is bad forever, nothing is good forever.

Also, there are certain drugs that can stop bad trips. I've never tried them (during a trip) but I think benzodiazepines can stop some bad trips. And also drugs like haloperidol.

If you want to know more you can check these two books (there are lots of others btw) :
- The Varieties of the psychedelic experience (Houston & Masters)
- LSD Psychotherapy (Stanislav Groff)
I think you can find them in PDF, if not PM me I can send them to you.

All in all, I think psychedelics are a double edged sword. If you are unsure, don't take a full dose. Better safe than sorry. And this is not some stupid responsability discharge or anything. I really mean it. Life is wonderful wether with psychedelics or not. I personally like them a lot (although I haven't taken any in full dose for more than 3 years now).

Regarding shrooms : The psychedelic substances, wether with LSD, Shrooms, Ayahuasca, bring you to places that share a common area between them. But each one of them has its own personality and differences, not only about visuals but about how it feels on the body, where you go on the trip, etc. Shrooms and LSD are quite similar in visuals, yes (answering your question). LSD feels more easy on the body because shrooms can make you puke. Shrooms trip is shorter than LSD. Anyway, visuals depend on personal differences also. Some people get lots of visuals, someothers not. Ayahuasca is very different although as I said it shares a common area.

 

[Makrosky]

How long for 1P effects?

Same of those of LSD I would say. That is : a duracell rabbit.

 

[Parsifal]

​

Seems really close to serotonin chemically.

 

[Makrosky]

​

Seems really close to serotonin chemically.

The fact that psilocin is chemically very similar to serotonin doesn't mean they do the same. What happens quite often is that a chemical very similar to another one (sometimes a single atom) enters the receptor because it fits there but then, as it's different, not only it doesn't activate the receptor but it prevents the former chemical to bind there. So you have the exact opposite reaction. I am not saying it works like that in shrooms. Just wanted to clarify.

 

[Parsifal]

The fact that psilocin is chemically very similar to serotonin doesn't mean they do the same. What happens quite often is that a chemical very similar to another one (sometimes a single atom) enters the receptor because it fits there but then, as it's different, not only it doesn't activate the receptor but it prevents the former chemical to bind there. So you have the exact opposite reaction. I am not saying it works like that in shrooms. Just wanted to clarify.

Yeah, that's possible. I don't think that psychedelics would increase body temps and would help against depression if they were serotoninergic but maybe that's not the case for all of them?
watch this video at 4:00

 

[Makrosky]

Yeah, that's possible. I don't think that psychedelics would increase body temps and would help against depression if they were serotoninergic but maybe that's not the case for all of them?
watch this video at 4:00

Yeah, or maybe Ray Peat is wrong and 99% of the rest of the world is right and serotonin is not bad or something one should antagonize/reduce as much as possible.