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Lowering Adrenaline

  1. Besides salt, sugar, and light, are there any more concrete ways of lowering adrenaline that is out of whack? What are some symptoms of very high adrenaline?
     
  2. Among other things, I have had nearly instant positive results during times of anxiety and elevated adrenaline (as well as cortisol & other stress hormones) by utilizing high doses of pregnenolone (with enough sugar and nutrients to support it), soaking in hot springs, adding lots of magnesium bath flakes to baths at home, and eating liver after realizing that I had gone too long without it.
     
  3. GABA "agonists" should lower it too. Since glycine, taurine and niacinamide are all GABA "agonists" they all have studies showing lower adrenalin when consuming them.
     
  4. I tried 2 cups of milk tonight with 3 tbs of sugar and a 1/4 tsp of salt. No effect, still a heavy thumping heart rate. Very uncomfortable. Also tried Progest E and nothing. Maybe its not adrenaline.
     
  5. In his book " Generative energy ", Ray quoted a book called " Interoceptors " by V.N. Chernigovskiy.

    Below it's one of my favorite quote made by Ray:
    “Just friction, or scratching or stretching the intestine is enough to cause it to release serotonin into the bloodstream."

    I would say that the presence of mechanoreceptors and chemoreceptors in the digestive tract should draw your attention, mainly because you do suffer from generalized GI inflammation.
    In any case, one can assert that stimulation of the mechanoreceptors and/or the chemoreceptors of the whole digestive tract gives rise to reflexes affecting circulation, respiration, heart rate and brain's activity and that there are different reflex effects from different portions of the tract.
    It's was pretty well documented by russian researchers that , for example, stretching of the stomach and rectum is enough to produce changes in arterial pressure and respiration ( A.I Ivanov, V.A. Lehedeva, N.A. Lapshin )

    I would add that some clinicians ( S.P. Botkin, Yushar, Potain and A.A. Ostroumov) have repeatedly pointed out the great significance which the reflexes of the digestive tract have for an understanding of various symptoms in patients who suffered from ailments of the digestive tract and complained about unpleasant subjective sensations which they blamed on the heart ( and/or, in your case, blaming adrenaline) ( from "Interoceptors" , chapter on the mechanoreceptors, p 31).
    Does it sounds familiar to you?

    You can still take whatever calming, regulating, de-stressing substances on Earth, you will never address the REAL cause of your problem but only the consequences. And by taking supplements that will only address the consequences and not the cause, they will sooner or later loose their "miraculous' effects (and especially sooner when one is very sick.) and putting individual into a more complicated situation.
    The only real problem here, I believe, is your actual food ( and calories, like Tara and others pointed out) intake even if you eat Ray's approved one.
    Even a small amount of (any given) irritating foods can produce a "reactional" constipation....
    Try to put your hands on the book "Interoceptors", read it, re-read it and I'm sure that you will find some very good answers to your health problems ( I got mine through Abebooks and it was not too pricey.)
    Please, and I swear I will not continue to bother you with my advices, don't be trapp in your own beliefs. Try to see beyond sugar, salt, starch, junk foods, serotonin, ATP, B vitamins ect.... what you need right now is high calories and easily digest, non irritating foods. And go for a N.I.D ( Near Iron Deficient) diet by choosing shellfish ( shrimps), cheese ect over meat as your protein source ( but keep your protein intake low and your carbs intake high during the inflammation).
    I'm not in your situation but I paid the price of an inflammed digestive tract and I was dying ( 53 kilos for 2 meters), I was not able to handle any foods during this though time...
    The only two things that saved my health back then was:

    - Calories dense foods ( Mc Donalds ( burgers only for me, not the fried potatoes), french custard, mayonnaise (homemade with olive oil) loaded sandwiches, chocolate chips cookies, maccaroni and cheese, cheesecake, shellfish risotto, pancakes, ect...)

    At first, I couln't handle those foods but I kept doing it and slowly I began to gain some weight and my health and digestion also began to improved. It took me almost 1 year to overcome this. But now, four years later, my weight is 98 kilos and I'm now symptoms free of my crohn's. When you are weak, and for a given time, "junk foods" are truly powerful tools. Remember Ancel Keys starvation experiment.
    Adding vitamin K ( a mixture of K1 and K2 ) as well as some saturated fat ( ghee is almost the perfect saturated fat source, digestion wise ) is very important as both play an important role on the activity of the intestinal enzyme alkaline phosphatase which regulates the passage of substances like endotoxin ( that could maintains and worsen intestinal inflammation ) into the body.
    Not saying that my scenario will apply to you but I just want to share my experience.

    - Ray Peat

    After my "junk foods" healing journey, I now stick with Ray's recommendation of avoiding vegetable oils and thyroid inhibiting foods. But I found that I still need starches to feel at my best.
    A french digestive surgeon, Dr Georges Pourtalet, wrote a book about the pancreatic juices being ( but not the only) one of the main culprit for maintaining and aggravating any accute GI inflammation. Binding them, by beginning your meal with solid foods ( like white refined grains like rice, pasta ect.... ), is also important to consider.

    Take care.
     
  6. Do you still keep your protein low or just when you weren't feeling well?
     
  7. Hi Peata,

    During the worst time of my crohn's, I kept my protein intake low but not anymore.
    I was not able to eat, and could not tolerate, "large" intake of proteins as I couldn't handle straight milk, eggs or meat back then.
    But to avoid any further important weight loss, I was making homemade cakes by mixing sugar, flour, chocolate chips, eggs, salt, ghee and skim milk ( without any added yeast).
    I always soaked the flour in milk the night before in the fridge ( as to pre-gelatinized the starch ).
    And the digestive tolerance of milk and eggs are greatly improved this way ( thanks to the discovery of Dr Paul Carton) and, in fact, I was able to finally tolerate milk and eggs during my flare-up by mixing them with starches.
    I was doing the same with mashed potatoes, I boiled peeled potatoes for less than 1 hour drained them, mashed them and added skim milk, salt, egg yolks and small amount of ghee....
    At that time, I struggled very hard to find a way to tolerate foods but it worked this way for me.
     
  8. Thank you for the replies. Just a few things. I definitely agree that my digestive track has a lot to do with this, and it probably has a lot to do with my nerves. I can do longer go in public, as I sit there and fidget so bad, and get very scared. Adrenaline starts pumping, and my heart rate goes thumping like crazy. And I also agree that I would like to get to the root of the cause, and not just take supplements or drugs to hide the real cause. Here are the things. I am terribly bloated, so trying to eat more is very tough. I have stool backed up in there for days, so anytime I eat extra, I get very bad heartburn, and my stomach is even more bloated. How are you supposed to stuff more food in an already clogged up intestine? Before I ever went on to any diet, and way before Ray Peat, I would have doubled over pains that would put me up in the hospital a couple times every week. That was whenever I was eating stuff that I enjoyed, such as hamburgers like you mentioned from McDonalds, sandwiches, cookies, etc. All that pain is what caused me to start looking for different diets, and eventually found Ray Peat many years later.
     
  9. Hi IloveSugar,

    Though less extreme, I'm still in the same boat as you. My stomach swells up the minute food or drink touches my lips. Doesn't matter what it is. I take charcoal every other night, and it flattens my stomach overnight but constipates me.

    One thing that has helped my constipation is A LOT of coconut oil -- like 4 heaping tablespoons. Have you tried that for help with elimination? You might have to drink half a cup of CO...work your way up until you find your limit. There WILL be a limit...it might be high.

    The advantage of CO as a laxative is how smoothly you will go, and effortlessly.

    Wilfrid -- how did you determine what you could eat that would not swell your stomach? Did you go down to eating just one or two things, and then adding back other foods? What were those one or two things?
     
  10. I have been taking 1-2 tbs daily, but will try upping it. Is there an amount in which it becomes unsafe?
     
  11. CO unsafe??

    I've never heard it so. The worst that can happen is diarrhea. But I'm not a scientist, and maybe someone with more knowledge can say so.

    I'd work my way up slowly, if I was you. If you take too much at once, you might get diarrhea. Increase by a tablespoon at a time. If 2T isn't doing anything, I'd start with 4T, and go from there.

    Have you found even one food you can tolerate? I'm having trouble with that right now.
     
  12. Honestly, no. If I had one or two foods, I would just focus on them. My stomach stays rock hard, and digestion is so slow.

    I will try with 4 tbsp coc oil.
     
  13. Hi sunmountain,

    At first, I couldn't handle more than a few bites of food at the time.
    I remember asking my wife to cut the standard McDonald's hamburger (!) in four parts which made my entire meal for the day, and it was the same ritual for all of my meals. I wasn't able to determine anything, it was just my body craving and I listened to it. One day, I wanted burger, the other day, cheesecake and so on....all I wanted was just comfort and high palatability foods, that's it. Taste and mouth-feel are very important when sick.
    And it's not unsual for someone very weak and sick to crave foods that are not consider healthy.
    The only other thing that I did was drinking isotonic and hypertonic solution all the day to keep me hydrated and to get me some energy.
    And I don't want to start a polemic here, but refined wheat product was very good for me ( betaine content?) and despite eating it on a daily basis, I didn't relapse so far. I think that there is a huge difference between store-bought junk and homemade one. Again, I'm not recommending that anyone should eat wheat! Rice and potatoes are surely safer than wheat. Or,like Ray said very very ripe fruits are better than starch but I had different experiences, that's it.
    Now that I have only the sigmoid and rectum part of my colon left, I could quickly identify an allergenic food ( bloating, gas, mucus, diarrhea, red scaly patches on my inner thigh ect....) and ( highly refined) wheat is not one of them. To the contrary.
    Like I said it took me almost one year to overcome my digestive issue ( after my surgery ).
    And most of my food were homemade. I used a lot of cheese, pastries, ghee, olive oil, rice, potatoes, sugar, pasta ect....the only supplement that I took ( before Ray's recommendation about vitamin K) was René Quinton both isotonic and hypertonic solutions.

    @iLoveSugar,

    Thank you for your reply. :D
    Did you try the orange juice fast that Ray recommended to you?
    Does it work?
    Perharps, very well cooked sweet organic apples are also worth trying as a monodiet ( only for 3-4 days) ?
    Ray has wrote about hypertonic solutions during acute sickness ( as well as for constipation), can you find the following products in the U.S ?

    http://www.plasmaquinton.com/what-quint ... plasma.php

    If not, if you PM me your address, I can send you one box of each ( Iso + hyper).
    i don't know if René Quiton is very well known in the U.S ?
    Like I said above, I used the hypertonic one and it helped a lot.
    Nowdays, I'm still taking two ampoules of the isotonic version only in 1 liter of apple juice.
     
  14. Thank you, Wilfrid!

    When you restricted to only burgers, did you find that the food did not make you bloat? How did you "discover" that burgers was to be your food of choice?

    Also, I looked up your isotonic and hypertonic solutions, and they are too expensive for me. Can you recommend anything that might be a rough substitute?

    I come from a low carb background, and had to increase my caloric intake a lot when I started RP 3 months ago, and experienced an immediate cessation of racing heartbeat when I started eating more.

    Because of my food restriction background, I'm finding it hard to restrict to one or two items -- not that I have been able to identify what might work yet.

    I know that if I just eat less, my stomach is much less swollen. But I am afraid of reverting to a starvation diet (I was getting about 1300 cal when I found RP).

    A few days ago I posted in another thread a hybrid RP and FODMAPS plan (the latter is what my doc wants me to try). But I have not been able to stick to it.

    What I'm doing these days is eating what I want and enjoy, and my stomach is usually inflated except when I awake. I take activated charcoal along with CO every other night.

    If I was to go down to one or two items, I might try rice and potatoes. But it's hard to think of eating just those. I can also tolerate tea with a small amount of milk, and tons of hydrolyzed gelatin and sugar.

    I guess I do need to restrict if I'm going to find out what I can tolerate. I just don't like/want to do it.

    Thanks
     
  15. I tried very temporarily, and it was sitting in my stomach heavy and just made me bloat even worse. I tried it with salt, and same reaction. Struggling quite mightily right now. I decided yesterday to go out and exercise a little bit, and take some Periactin a night. Today I can't even move. My body hurts incredibly bad. I tried this morning to eat some junk food, white rice flour pancakes, with syrup and butter. My stomach is so bloated and backed up.
     
  16. There is a very good thread on coconut oil and charcoal.
    I was never never able to tolerate charcoal or CO ( even the tropical traditions refined one) during acute intestinal inflammation. Never. But like Blossom and 4PS said on the coconut oil thread, reaction to those are highly individual.
    After discovering RP, I was using CO on my skin rather than by mouth. Ghee was better for my digestion.
    Hard aged cheese can be very constipating. Non-aged cheese ( feta, mozzarella, curdled fresh milk with animal rennet ect....) are often more easily digest. Lean ground beef are also easy to digest.
    The thing is: if you have any gut inflammation you have to consider (any) food like a potential offender.
    The best way to neutralyze those offenders are:

    - Cook the food.
    - Your personal mouth-feel to them. ( Your taste for sweet, bitter, sour, acidic foods ect..)
    - Consider yourself as having a "baby" fragile like digestive system.

    Always, cook ( refined) starches ( if you decide to eat them) with water. I think persorption of raw starches is the problem not the cooked ( gelatinizated) one.
    Go for pasteurized cheese ( and remember, it's a french saying that!). I had, in the past, a dispute with BurtL. about the A1 / A2 type of cow milk but I must say now that he was surely right about the subject ( Burt, if you happen to read this post, I'm sorry ...and as a fellow french citizen, you know how much it costs me to admit this. ;) ) Try to favor as possible A2 cow milk made cheese and/or sheep milk ones.
    I found that, thanks to Mittir, clear apple juice is less irritating to my system than orange juice. I now have watermelon filtered juice, apple juice, clarified pear juice, apricot nectar, mango nectar and peach nectar as my main fruits source.
    Maybe you don't have to limit your food source to only one or two things try slowly but surely to add new foods.
    Anyway, if I were you, I will give the charcoal and CO a rest, maybe for a week or two.
    Chew your food as much as possible ( until solid foods become liquid, and chew also your liquids).
    Don't drink liquid that are too hot or too cold. Ideally room temperated is best.
    Try to make at home the food that you enjoy and want ( maybe that's what you are already doing?)
    There is a huge difference between a store bought pancake or cake made with 36 ingredients including artificial colouring, iron and B vitamins fortified whole wheat flour, guar gum, canola oil and a pancake made at home with organic white flour, cane sugar, ghee ( or butter), milk, good quality eggs and sodium bicarbonate. Both are calories dense rich foods but the ingredients makes the difference.
    You can try to take 6 small meals every 3 hours. Combining proteins and carbs. Make those meals very simple. A piece of cake ( made with skim milk, eggs, sugar, salt and flour) 1-2 oz of cheese with a cup of apple juice, that's it. Try to make a homemade isotonic drink by combining fruit juice, water and sodium bicarbonate and sip on it all day long.
    Hope that help.
     
  17. I'm sorry, I didn't want to give you bad advices about comfort foods. :oops:
    If you decide to eat pancakes, I think it's better to prepare the dough yourself by soaking the flour in a liquid medium ( like skim milk) overnight in the fridge.
    Do you think that you could try the cooked apple thing for 1 or 2 days?
     
  18. Sorry if this idea has been brought up, but have you tried cascara?
     
  19. Ok, we didn't prepare the flour.

    I could try the apple juice although I am not a fan of it at all, and I think liquid consumption makes me bloat more/feel more full.
     
  20. Yes, I take cascara each night. The past 2 nights, I have upped my dose to a small teaspoon size per night.
     
  21. Have you tried Diatamaceous earth for the bloat/intestinal issues? (this is not peaty but seems to help people)
     
  22. I was thinking about sweet organic cooked apples not the juice.
    Something like homemade cooked applesauce with a dash of fat and sugar.
     
  23. I've never even heard of it.
     
  24. So cooked apples, with butter and sugar? No salt or anything? Try this for a few days?
     
  25. Hi, W! Can you help me to understand what you mean by "never able to tolerate". Was this reported by your physician as an adverse reaction to these substances?

    Also, I think I understand you to say that your experiences are highly individual, or even unique to you? Is that right?

    I ask because I'm researching the topic of charcoal and coconut oil, and among all the substances I can find, these two substances are among the (relatively) safest substances I see.
     
  26. My understanding is that diatomacious earth can kill intestinal parasites by cutting them with it's millions of sharp little edges. This can be helpful for people if parasites are a significant burden. I think it can also be a bit tough on a sensitive gut lining. Am I wrong about this? I think it is hard to know if there are parasites around - they are not always detected easily.
     
  27. Diatomaceous earth is used a lot for intestinal parasites. It also regulates digestion. It may prove to be an irritant for some but there's ALOT of info out there about internal use. Food grade only-apparently there are two types . If you decide to try please research. I just threw it out there because you seem to have tried many things to help yourself and not much is helping (@ilovesugar).
    I actually use de off an on, it helps me with hair growth, skin, sleep and digestion. I lost a lot of hair from messing around with supplements and I'm trying to grow back.
     
  28. Hi,

    No, it was no reported by my physician. It was me experimenting those substances during the bad flare-up of my crohn's.
    I tried first the charcoal because I thought that it would help me with the diarrhea ( up to 20 bloody diarrhea per day during my "best" time with the disease), fistula and abscess. But it made the situation worse by worsening my intestinal cramping and by giving me also stomach burping.
    As for the CO, it gave me also stomach burping and gag reflex. It still does nowdays even if I'm symptoms free, I never try again the charcoal thing, though but I don't feel the need to do so.
    And now, more than ever before, I can quickly identify a problematic food / supplement and unfortunately, for me, the CO and the charcoal are a no-no.
    I do fine on ghee, to a lesser extent on butter, and on olive oil. Maybe you could try to see on IBD forums and ask if the members had any experiences ( good or bad) with those two substances. :2cents
     
  29. So just a diet of very well cooked apples, butter, and sugar? My pain has been so bad lately, as well as my dizziness, and my severe nerves. I can't sit in my own home or go anywhere without being extremely nervous, and feeling like I am going to shatter. It's the worst feeling in the world. I wonder if Lyme disease is really doing all this to me. I'm only 29 and should t have every muscle and bone hurting.
     
  30. [
    WARNING! This is not specifically Peat: My daughter just read a book about Lyme disease called Healing Chronic Lyme Disease Naturally. Ironically one of the things she has done as recommended by the book is to increase her calories to about 3,000 per day. She is a small female but I think the calories vary depending on age and sex. It's very similar to the youreatopia guidelines Tara posted. She has also added an herb recommended in the book after taking a round of doxycycline.
     
  31. Yeah I consulted with Joey (the author). He got better by eating (mostly following Matt Stone principals). I definitely need to eat more, but before that, I need to find digestible foods that I can pound all day.
     
  32. That's great. I'm sorry it wasn't new info for you. My daughter is only been eating that much for about a month or two but said it's getting easier. She likes udi's gluten free dark chocolate brownies. I looked at the label and they didn't have any foul gut irritants or added pufa. She's pretty particular but has access to a lot of farm fresh food that she helps raise and grow. I won't ramble on about her-sorry, you know how moms can get. Maybe someone will have additional thoughts.
     
  33. Does she feel any better? A lot better? I'm definitely interested in what you have to say? She was diagnosed with Lyme? Any digestive issues?
     
  34. She was diagnosed with Lyme after the classic tick bite scenario. She probably let it go a little too long and didn't take the doxycycline until about a month after it happened and she kept getting worse. She is starting to feel better but not 100% yet. It seems like it can go chronic in people who are weakened and she had been vegan for years (mostly raw). She is hopeful and I think for her the nutrition is the main key to getting well.
     
  35. She was protein malnourished as a teen while living at home during high school. I highly doubt she ever really recovered from that properly. She is one of those people that has a serious problem with gluten and in hindsight I think she always ate very little because she felt so bad when she did eat. 3 years ago she made the connection that when she ate her college roommates gluten free food she felt better. That was great but it set her off on a path that became very extreme. She was so entrenched in every aspect of her food that there was little acceptable to her to eat. ALL of her food had to be local, organic etc. I think those are great things to emphasize but with her health so compromised I think her ideology got in the way of her nutrition. I would say about 10 years of undereating took a toll on her body. She is only 24. Sometimes I see this as a blessing in disguise because she is now eating better and has added things like liver, eggs, butter, coconut oil that I'm sure are helping her rebuild and repair. She also chose to take the herb aswagandha. I don't know much about it to be honest. I'm just trying to help her any way I can but only when she asks.
     
  36. Yeah I think chronic Lyme is a real issue. I am 29 now and suspect I got it when I was 13 (I clearly remembered getting sick). Now it's a fight from hell.
     
  37. I'm sorry to hear that ils. I was diagnosed with CFS and that's another one that is poorly understood and often dismissed since medicine doesn't know what to do about it. I don't have CFS anymore but it wasn't until I found Peat's work that I really started to heal. I think I was just too depleted to heal. Have you ever tried homemade milk shakes? Maybe if you could sip on something high calorie like that it could help you get more calories without your digestive system having to work too hard. Ice cream is supposedly close to breast milk in its nutrition.
     
  38. To start, while I have had some digestive issues my whole life, my issues are far less severe than yours, so take what I say with that knowledge.

    I second milkshakes if you can tolerate them; it is easy to add extra calories to these already calorie dense drinks by adding sugar it you want also, and
    They are very quick and easy to make. I make mine with a stick blender right in a big glass, so cleanup is easy too.

    I actually usually make more smoothie type drinks. I use Greek yogurt, frozen fruit, sugar (lots), a little collagen hydrolysate, and milk or orange juice depending on what fruit I'm using. For some reason frozen fruit ground up in a blender is way easier on my digestion than just eating fruit. I have no idea why, I have just observed it to be the case. I couldn't guess it it would be effective for you. Perhaps this might give you some ideas, though, if you can't tolerate the things I use, but have some other things you can. You could substitute the yogurt for ice cream or bananas, or probably even apple sauce (reduce fluid, or increase Frozen content). Different juices might work, more or less gelatin, etc. You could throw an egg or two in there if you want to, and have a good source of eggs, although I might be careful of eating too many raw eggs for too long; I know it can cause an issue with biotin absorption, and after several months of adding them to shakes myself I developed a revulsion of eggs that took a few months to abate. Anyway, just food for thought about food.

    Honey is another calorie dense food that might at least help you increase calories, if you don't have allergies to it. It is reportedly anti-septic as well, so may have additional digestive benefits, although I wouldn't expect any significant impacts other than from the calories.

    Hope there is something helpful in this post.
     
  39. Sorry, I was looking into adrenaline issues, and didn't realize this thread was 2 years old:(

    So, uh, did you figure out the adrenaline part?
     
  40. It's still good information for someone looking up things on adrenaline issues:).
     
  41. I'm having your same symptoms right now. Have you found a solution during these years?
     
  42. Amazing that wheat flour helped you.
    What do you mean by "gelatinized" starch.
    And you didn't use organic sprouted flour, just plain wheat flour?
     
  43. Do these substances bind to the GABA receptors?
     
  44. Google for each one of them followed by "GABA receptor" (no quotes).